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Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





East Bay

Even I won't play devil's advocate about this guy's right to free speech.

The self-published author was arrested in Pueblo, Colorado, on a Florida felony warrant after undercover detectives in Polk County purchased and received a copy of the book through the mail. He will have to be extradited to Florida to face charges.


http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/12/20/florida.obscenity.arrest/index.html

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Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





East Bay

Ma55ter_fett wrote:The time investment I would have to put into formulating a half way decent defensive argument for this man (for trolling purposes) would not generate a sufficient amount of luls to make it worth the effort.


My thoughts exactly.

He'll probably get snapped up by those trolls at the ACLU. They'll do anything to piss of the establishment.
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





East Bay

Wolfun wrote:I'm surprised he didn't get arrested like a month ago, when it was being reported by all the newspapers.

I've not read it myself, but aren't you allowed to publish what you want as long as it's not "GO FORTH AND RAPE CHILDREN."?



It is a guide book on how to seduce, sexually gratify, and train for long term sexual service YOUNG BOYS IE 9-11 years of age.
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





East Bay

No excuse for buggering little boys. Sorry, not gonna bend or break on that one.
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





East Bay

Ahtman wrote:
Peter Wiggin wrote:No excuse for buggering little boys. Sorry, not gonna bend or break on that one.


I don't think anyone was arguing for that. We are talking about limits of free speech and all that junk though.



The free speech ends when you advocate child molestation.


Not only is it just gross, but unless I am wrong it is against the law to incite unlawful behavior. <shrug> I am not a lawyer though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/22 01:25:34


 
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





East Bay

Automatically Appended Next Post:
A Black Ram wrote:Lets also make a book on how to make bombs, and hide them from your parents!



They did, then they made it illegal. See "Jolly Roger's Cookbook" and "Anarchists Handbook". I remember when you could buy them at chain bookstores. Now you can't, cause they are illegal.


Actually, they may not be illegal per-say...but certainly difficult to find. Same deal with The Turner Diaries, although that book certainly doesn't directly incite any criminal behavior. Still......I hope that makes more sense to you than it does to me.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2010/12/22 02:06:41


 
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





East Bay

CT GAMER wrote:
Peter Wiggin wrote:


It is a guide book on how to seduce, sexually gratify, and train for long term sexual service YOUNG BOYS IE 9-11 years of age.


I thought that was the boyscout handbook?

I'm confused...



Nah, I was a scout! Then the LDS hijacked the scouts and turned it into yet another anti-homosexuality weapon in their arsenal.
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





East Bay

The blue crap is an artistic rendering of a bearded man embracing a young looking boyish figure. Its very.....greek. :/
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





East Bay

Modern greeks are more like this though

Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





East Bay

battle Brother Lucifer wrote:That looks like a leg over a shoulder...

That artists rendition is a swing and a miss. I can't even tell what it is trying to convey ( I can assume you are right due to the subject matter...)


SUmthin gross having to do with a grown man buggering a little boy. Ugh, c'mon. If ugay then ugay, wait til 18 ffs.
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





East Bay

Kilkrazy wrote:

Presumably the author has been arrested for being a paedophile rather than an author of a distasteful book.



"You cannot engage or depict children in a harmful relationship," said Polk County, Florida, Sheriff Grady Judd as he described the Florida obscenity statute that officials used to charge Phillip Greaves with distribution of obscene material depicting minors engaged in harmful conduct.
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





East Bay

sebster wrote:What's weird is that he's being charged in Florida, despite never having been to Florida, or publishing his book there.



Its clearly a "letter of the law" thing due to the fact that he's a pedophile. Sorry, but I fully endorse discrimination against pedophiles. Call it an arbitrary moral judgment.
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





East Bay

Kilkrazy wrote:It's not actually illegal to be a paedophile, it is illegal to have sex with someone under the age of consent.

Some paedophiles break the law in that respect, and so do some non-paedophiles.



Also illegal to have kiddie porn, and the reason that this book skirts legality is because it is a how to guide on the actions of child molestation (a crime).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
dogma wrote:
Howard A Treesong wrote:I thought the book, distasteful a topic as it is, was a guide for paedophiles *not* to offend and thus stay on the right side of the law. Much as some people would like all paedophiles to be locked up or lobotomised the fact is that people get locked up for illegal actions, not for having certain thoughts.


Having read it, yes, that's the case.



I've only read exerpts, but the premise of "I want to seduce children" and "NEVER HURT THE KIDS" are NOT compatible. Putting it inside a little kid is harmful no matter how you slice it. I practice "harm no one".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frazzled wrote:He needs a bullet to the head, on national TV.

Better yet, lets tie it in to the American foot ball thread. Put him on the 50 yard line in a game between the Steelers and the Raiders. He's the ball. Every body part in the end zone counts as a touchdown.


The Nation would take care of him so's they'd never find the body.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/12/22 16:20:35


 
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





East Bay

Monster Rain wrote:All the discussion about the cover of the book being hard to understand made me think of a possible alternative.

Spoiler:


BWUAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

irl spew chow mein laughing

Automatically Appended Next Post:
sebster wrote:
dogma wrote:Having read all of those, Protocols is the most distasteful.

The book (Pedophiles Guide) is basically a plea against rape. It absolutely violates our normal standards of the age of consent, but it doesn't really advocate pedophilia so much as accept that there are pedophiles, and that they might act better than they do.

I consider that much better than Protocols, which attributes malice, instead of rebuking it.

Edit: For clarity.


I haven't read Protocols (although I did see it for sale in a bookstore in Brunei, but that's a whole other story) but I did read Mein Kampf, which is mostly just boring and incoherent. And doesn't have enough car chases.

I didn't know you'd read the Paedophile's Guide, or the actual content of the book. Thanks for the insight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Peter Wiggin wrote:Its clearly a "letter of the law" thing due to the fact that he's a pedophile. Sorry, but I fully endorse discrimination against pedophiles. Call it an arbitrary moral judgment.


Arbitrary moral judgements and the law are an extremely bad combination. Indeed, the reason we embrace the the law is to protect us from the arbitrary moral judgements of others.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frazzled wrote:He sent the book to a detective in Florida. In the words of the immortal bard: BAM!


Well, yeah, which is why all I said was that it was interesting, not that it was not a legal thing.

And when I say interesting, I mean it is interesting to consider exactly what would and wouldn't be illegal in other circumstances. What if the book was given to a warehouse for distribution, and they distributed it to a guy in Florida on his behalf, who's breaking the law then?


He was clearly the target of a police operation based on the fact that HE WROTE A HOW TO BOOK ON MOLESTING KIDS!!!!! I think that the legal foundation is pretty secure. Florida is in the belt of states that will and do prosecute obscenity laws. Too bad, so sad.

Your free speech ends when it harms another citizen. Poli Sci 101 noobfarts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
dogma wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Exactly. Its not judst advocacy. Its a how to manual.


Have you read it? Because it doesn't advocate pedophilia at all. Its basically a book about how to cope with one's destructive urges.

The title is provocative by intention, as the author wanted to attract attention to what he basically views as a disability.

Peter Wiggin wrote:
I've only read exerpts, but the premise of "I want to seduce children" and "NEVER HURT THE KIDS" are NOT compatible. Putting it inside a little kid is harmful no matter how you slice it. I practice "harm no one".


Sure they are. Wanting to do something does not entail believing that a thing should be done, or actually doing the thing in question.

One can want to do violence against someone, and still recognize that doing so would be wrong or bad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Arguably a guide to paedophilia is in a bit of a different league in terms of "harm to children."


Not when it comes to mere depiction.



So you argue from the stance that this is protected under free speech? Fine, send it to the courts!


Bolded your own comments. Statutory rape is rape. Thats a crime. It advocates breakign the legal age of consent, there by it advocates rape. Go ahead and point out the logical fallacy if you want.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2010/12/23 02:26:16


 
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





East Bay

sebster wrote:
Peter Wiggin wrote:He was clearly the target of a police operation based on the fact that HE WROTE A HOW TO BOOK ON MOLESTING KIDS!!!!! I think that the legal foundation is pretty secure. Florida is in the belt of states that will and do prosecute obscenity laws. Too bad, so sad.


What the hell are you doing? Why are you pretending that I'm in any way defending this guy, his book or his right to publish his book. I was commenting that the law matters more than your (self admitted) arbitrary moral judgements.

But you seem to have formed the debate approach of 'paedophiles are bad, everything else is detail, now to start a flame war'.

Your free speech ends when it harms another citizen. Poli Sci 101 noobfarts.


Well, fething duh. Seriously, just, fething duh. What you've posted is incredibly obvious, incredibly simplistic, and you did it in a pointlessly rude way. Why are you trying to sink your own thread?



No, I just formulated the stance that this guy is a sick puppy that broke the law. Now he gets to go through the process.

Sorry if I was rude, honestly didn't intend for it to be. Went back and edited it 3 times to try and make it NOT rude. Apparently I fail at internet. Edit: Actually 5 times

I do think that this is a seperate issue from free speech, thats all I'm saying. Fair enough?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/23 02:48:07


 
Made in us
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East Bay

dogma wrote:
The legal age of consent has no bearing on being attracted to someone who is not of majority. If it did, the movie Mean Girls would have sent millions of American men to jail.


Correct, but its up to the court system to determine if the content of this book falls into the realm of inciting criminal behavior. Your comment about [the author] making the title purposefully controversial....well......

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/23 03:00:04


 
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





East Bay

dogma wrote:
Peter Wiggin wrote:Your comment about [the author] making the title purposefully controversial....well......



No, not at all.

The title was made controversial in order to attract attention to what the author views as a disability, as I said before.

It was not made controversial in order to endorse pedophilia.

I'm going to echo Sebster, what are you doing? Because it certainly isn't reading the thread.


I read it, I just don't agree with you guys seeming to defend this guy's right to free speech when it involves buggering little kids. Period.

I don't think its a civil right to have sex with kids or collect kiddie porn. This book's existence by itself is an attempt to justify those things.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/23 04:36:05


 
Made in us
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East Bay

Emperors Faithful wrote:Woah, Peter Wiggin, how does that sebter/dogma logic tag-team feel?



I'm not skeert of em. I can efite as good as the next guy, I just don't use excessive verbosity to do it.

I'm just suprised that Dogma is seemingly defending the right to free speech on this subject. Can't help but feel its a bit of devil's advocacy.
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East Bay

Frazzled wrote:I found it interesting Dogma has read the book.



I find it interesting as well. Not trying to say anything other than that, I just honestly find it interesting that he'd read it.


Now the real question is whether or not it was purchased by Mr Dogma. I wouldn't mind glancing at a PDF just to educate myself a bit more, but I wouldn't give the sicko author 1 dime of royalty payment. Of course he IS self published though.


Here's a quick guide to living as a pedophile.

Rule #1: Don't have sex with little kids.

FINISHED

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/23 17:09:21


 
Made in us
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East Bay

Mannahnin wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
generalgrog wrote:
dogma wrote:I find it interesting that Fraz cannot conquer his own distaste in order to confront an issue that might affect his children.


I have to say that I agree with dogma on this one. I was thinking that it would be a good idea to read this thing to find out how these people think so as to protect my kids from them thar sickos.

GG


Thanks got that covered already, but I like the slam from the guy who's reading pedo manuals in his spare time.
She Who Must Be Obeyed worked in victim services, specializing in child victims. You want to hear things that will wake you up at night in a cold sweat? She can tell you.


I agree with Dogma, Ahtman and GeneralGrog (who ever thought they'd see that sentence?).

And I took child abuse reports for the State of NH after hours for the better part of three years. I could swap stories with SWMBO; not that either of us would want to.



As someone who has done extensive work in the non-profit sector, I've dealt with way too many folks that were molested or raped as children to have even the slightest bit of sympathy or open mindedness at a man who purposefully stirs the pot on a volatile subject.

Arguing that having a "how to manual" for pedophiles is somehow GOOD for children is idiocy in the highest degree. Refer back to rule #1 for living as a pedophile.

TLDR, I think donkey show's are kinda hot but I'd never pay to support them CAUSE ITS WRONG!!!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tigerone wrote:Its a disgusting topic as well as the sick person that painted the rape scene. Dakka is full of children which in turn draws people that prey upon them. Just putting such a book out there in this type of forum is uncalled for and I have noticed over the last year or so alot of threads about alot of questionable activities with underage drinking and drug use makes me wonder why topics like that need to be addressed on a wargamming forum. If someone started a topic about a book about how to hate gays or any other minority group it would get locked within a few minutes.



Hi there, you missing the point of thread. kk?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/23 17:13:49


 
Made in us
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East Bay

Tigerone wrote:I dont think you get it...Even by posting something like this you are spreading it to someone that may use that book to hurt someone...its wrong...I do not belive in putting your head in the sand and ingnoring all the bad in the world but, this is a place that has alot of children some of them prob has lived thru something like this.



Conversely, by raising awareness of things like this I am helping to give children and parents yet another tool to avoid predators.

I can do this all day.
Made in us
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East Bay

Ahtman wrote: Fraz implying people are pedophiles.



I have to admit that I laughed at this. Frazz is the king of certain types of fallacy.



Officials said the book talks about safe sex and avoiding injury to children, grooming and preparing children for sex and teaching children how to lie to their parents.

Judd said Greaves' book outlines a "code of ethics" that shows pedophiles how to look for the most vulnerable children.



Important point, not to mention the one that the entire sordid mess hinges on. I mean if it were just a vulgar novel that would be one thing. A how to guide is another beast entirely.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/23 17:36:16


 
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





East Bay

Also, the guy says that he wrote this book as a way to exorcise his own childhood molestation. Thats pretty telling right there.

Shoulda wrote a friggin autobiography, not a pedobear how to guide.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tigerone wrote:Calling me a paedophile...?



Only if you like little kids.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/23 17:39:46


 
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East Bay

Frazzled wrote:

I have to admit that I laughed at this. Frazz is the king of certain types of fallacy.


Is incoherent a fallacy?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mannahnin wrote:The only person in the thread who has actually read the book says the content is not what you, or the Sheriff in FL, claims it is.

And I don't believe him, at all.
I believe prosecutors and police more than Dogma.



Nope!!!!!!

Appeals to blatant emotion or side swipes designed to discredit your debate opponent's crediblity generally fall under those lines. Iz ok Frazzfrazz, weiner dogs don't molest kids.
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East Bay

yeenoghu wrote:GWAR makes all sorts of statements on stage about Odurus Urungus (their singer) wanting to have sex with his alien hybrid half-son love child. Snatch has a graphic and helpful lecture on how to properly dispose of a corpse in a short amount of time. Law and Order has numerous episodes of how people can get away with murder, the Anarchist's Cookbook has molotov cocktail for dummies recipies, and the Bible gets into detail about the punishments permitted according to god's law for disagreeable women. So what, this guy writes about his wierd nasty loathsome creepy ass interest too. While we're at it, can we arrest all the Catholic pedophile priests for the content of the bible, or any social-studies middle school teacher who mentions what Alexander the Great was fond of doing? Can we arrest the biographers of that czarina Katherine the Great who liked to feth her horse? (allegedly)... how about the director of Platoon for a detailed demonstration of how to correctly subjugate a villiage of confused unarmed vietnamese peasants.

I don't want to read this guy's gak, but if I want to put a 'how to kidnap a world leader in 3 easy steps' book I hardly expect I will be arrested for that either. People will think (just like GWAR's alien half son love baby) that it is a joke. So how do we objectively judge a sense of humor? I can tell dead baby jokes too, that doesn't mean I'm actually out stuffing them in trash cans (well... not often anyway). Say what you want. Write what you want. Publish it if you can find a gak that will buy it, DOING it is arrestable.

Time to go write my essay on how to seduce nuns at Notre Game football games...



Comparing Oderus Urungus to a dude that wrote a book on living as a pedophile is silly. Firstly, Oderus is CLEARLY better since he has a space ship that runs on crack. PLUS he could just tell Gor Gor the dino to EAT THIS GUY! Problem solved, plus GWAR wins again.


Also, a historical account of a world leader (including their sexual proclivities) is a far cry from a how to guide. Please see my previous statement about this guy writing an autobiography as a way to 'exorcise" his own tragic childhood.


P.S. dance puppets dance!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/12/23 18:59:14


 
Made in us
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East Bay

Don't take Frazz seriously if you can help it Howard.

Besides, here's a personal attack. Frazz likes to troll with weiner dogs, Dogma loves to argue, Sebester is OCD at responding with qoutes, and I'm halfway cracked.


P.S. Folks that play with little army men need to get laid. Think I covered all the bases there. Oh, and vote Prime in 2012.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Howard A Treesong wrote:
Most forums I'm on have rules against promoting violence against others, but even as a Mod Frazzled has repeated suggested we shoot this guy or kill him in some other nasty way



We're a grimdark forum. I say put him in a cage match with Marneus Calgar.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/23 19:07:00


 
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East Bay

Sweet, did Frazz just banhammer himself?
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East Bay

Well, ostensibly I intended for it to be a thread to discuss this whole sordid business....but people are getting nasty and unkind over it.


I think that banning religious ads on public transit is dumb....if you pay for the ad space, you get to advertise. Lock away IMO, folks are getting to venomous.
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East Bay

Manchu wrote:
Mannahnin wrote:Manchu, I agree with Grog that the bus ads are a totally different subject and should get their own thread.
Maybe so, but it's worth bringing up here, as well. To me the issue is about whether you should be able to say or otherwise publish statements even if they elicit demands for censorship. Many people are extremely uncomfortable with open discourse about pedophilia in anything other than a pejorative sense (but see dogma's example above regarding psychology). Similarly, open religious debate in public settings has a way of making people uncomfortable. At issue is not merely the state's response to these situations but also how privately owned businesses or, to put a fine point on it in the context of this thread, individuals are treating them.


That is a good point, but to me the crux of this is the debatable stance that the man has provided advocacy for, and encouragement of something that is inherently damaging to society. I cannot think of ONE positive societal effect of sex at the age of 9-13. Even 14 is pushing it, but then I'd lump myself into my own argument.
 
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