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Hiya,

we had a little problem with our last helves vs skaven match. The problem is, when grey seer is killed when riding a screaming bell, does the bell get destroyed also or does it work on its own?

It's seems too easy victory points in melee , 3 wounds, t 3,6+ armor and you get 600+ victory points when you kill it (if its general).

The skaven FAQ answers this:

FAQ wrote:Q. Does anything special happen to a Screaming Bell or Plague Furnace
if the Grey Seer or Plague Priest is killed? (p43 & p48)
A. No.

HoverBoy wrote:The skaven FAQ answers this:

FAQ wrote:Q. Does anything special happen to a Screaming Bell or Plague Furnace
if the Grey Seer or Plague Priest is killed? (p43 & p48)
A. No.

Hmm yeah, maybe ive should checked the faq -.-'

thanks dude

Not only that, but you don't get any victory points unless you kill both the bell *and* the seer...

Also, the Grey Seer has a 4+ Ward save as long as the bell lives. don't forget that.

Red_Zeke wrote:Not only that, but you don't get any victory points unless you kill both the bell *and* the seer...

This BTW is the best rule ever, it really makes ridden monsters suck a bit less.
Im sorry my dear opponent but you have to kill the lord and the beast to get any VPs

As someone who doesn't have access to such things, my first instinct was that it was a bunch of poop, but considering the issues that ridden monsters can have now, I don't really begrudge it. Knocking out a bell can be pretty tough- especially since resources are frequently directed towards other threats (hell pits, doom wheels, warp lightning cannons).

Also remember that you randomize cannon shots.

It specifically says in the scaven book that for the bell/furnace you randomize ALL missile hits. This trumps the brb.

I've seen really long threads debating that on TWF. Certainly I don't feel that it's clear cut. If you get really pedantic, the bell says it randomizes all hits. The cannon rules say that it hits all parts of a multi-part model. So if you wanted to be 100% RAW, a cannon would hit two parts, then randomize both those hits.

Not trying to debate it here- I don't feel strongly enough about it to do so, but just saying that not everyone agrees with that assessment...

The ridden monster rules state that both the rider and mount are hit (pg 105). However, the Screaming Bell is Unit Type: Unique, which the BRB says they follow their own rules, in their Army Book(pg 87).

Just outta my own ratty noseyness, why would you ever lose a grey seer to anything but missile fire, climbing that bell is what they do best.

Uktabi wrote:Just outta my own ratty noseyness, why would you ever lose a grey seer to anything but missile fire, climbing that bell is what they do best.

Anyone in base contact with the bell can hit gray seer :/

Yea he can only climb up if challenged, which i never do, and if his champ, which he should, does challlenge i agree to a champ off and have my scar vet mince the seer

Yeah, the "Verminous Valor" rule is just barely a rule at all.

Of course, you would have to deal with the rat ogre on the bell, and maybe some other dudes, so that might convince some less-than-tough heroes and lords that a challenge is still worth a shot. Not so much with a Scar Veteran, though. Maybe the Rat Ogre would get him...eventually. Maybe.

Hmm btw can the ogre attack also if gray seer is challenged?

Actually both the mount at the character fight in the challenge. Altho the bell might have some special rule to that effect cant check right now.

No, the big guy gets to swing in a challenge, as far as I know. It's just that, with the step-up rule, a whole lot of guys can take a crack at a character now, so a challenge might be worth it (not, of course, for the Seer, and therein lies the problem).