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A friend of mine is wanting to get into Fantasy Warhammer someday but is wanting the most heavily armored force. I guess by what he told me he wants the hardest to kill units with the highest Toughness and Best Saves.

What armies would fit into that category? He "with little investigation" thinks Bretonians and Dwarfs are something that might be in that rank and I am thinking something more like Ogar Kingdoms, Dwarfs or Chaos Deamons.

Which army do you think would fit what he is looking for?

Ogres: High Toughness(can get up to 10 with magic), no armor to speak of.

WoC: High toughness(same as Ogres, but can't really be improved) and high armor. basic is a 4+, shields make it 3+. Knights have 1+.

Deamons: No armor, except on Juggers, just Wards. T is variable.

Brets: Knights basically arn't rocking anything worse the 2+, but they are still just humans(T3 and Str3) and really need their armor to save them. when their armor goes, they die, fast.

Dwarves: basic troops arn't super heavily armored(4+ is the best they can get with upgrades), but their Elites can get pretty impressive saves, they shut magic down pretty good, and they have decent T.



For what he wants, Warriors of Chaos

Warriors of Chaos? Really...I seen the models and thought they were kinda....really ugly so I never looked into them.

the basic warrior models are old, but they do have an advantage.

being only a few pieces they are easier to assemble and they actually rank up properly, something many new models kits struggle to do right. especially spears.

I would definitely agree ogres or dwarfs. Ogres being monstrous infantry with multiple wounds also can shrug off cannon rounds quite well. Plus they hit like a sledgehammer. They also can use magic to up their toughness and strength amongst other stuff. Dwarfs are about as tough as a normal humanoid can get for 9-10 points a model. Toughness 4 and a 4+ armour with 6+ parry save does quite well for a line holding unit. Though greatweapons are also awesome for when you just have to kill those high toughness monsters and infantry dead. They also have the added bonus of being able to shut down magic phases more efficiently than most opponents can for their points costs.

Another plus for ogres. Starting them is markedly cheaper than many armies. You mainly need bulls and a few characters to get started. I guess it comes down to aesthetics of what army you like the most. Well those are the two I would recommend.

Bretonnians are the most armored, their entire army (with the exception of pesants) is running around with a 2+ AS and a 5+/6+ Ward save. I would have him go Bretonnians or WOC because those are the most armored armies.

I would say it's between WoC, Dwarfs and Brets for the most heavily armored army. Ogres aren't armored, they're just tough as nails.

Of the three WoC and Dwarfs are easier to get a handle on playing and are considered to be in the top tier. The Brets are harder to learn how to use well and is considered to be a bit of a finesse army. Some would put them at the middle-low tiers.

Your friend should probably sit down, read some of the lore for each army and take a look at the models available for each. That'll be the best way for him to decide which of them he'd like best.

another plus for Ogres.

being incredibly Tough and having at least 3 wounds each means that they really don't need armor. with a couple of +1T buffs up ogres are practically immune to anything shy of a cannon or Bolt Thrower.

WoC or Brets, altho most lizardmen get the T4 4+ save others boast about too, one of their most usefull units has low T and no armor whatsoever.

Brets for more mobile and hitty saves

Ogres for resilience, but lack of good armour saves

Dwarves for resilience and saves, but less mobility

If you're looking for the army that is "the Toughest" and not "the hardest to kill" or "the most elusive" or whatever, there are two considerations:

1- including magical boons. Then, I'd have to say Lizardmen rock the house with the life-Slann. Brettonians, surprisingly enough, probably come close behind with the help of the Prophetess and Damsels. Basically: who's good at using Life magic, and who benefits most from it.

2- not including magical boons. Then I'd say Warriors of Chaos, hands down. Tzeentch Warriors tote a 3+/5+ in CC and are T4. I'd hazard to say that they are the single most durable unit in the game (no tricks or spells included), and they are core.
Also, there's the Chosenstar with a 3+ Ward. Since there's no partial victory points anymore, you could field a big ol' block of these guys (30+) with a BSB or something, and just refuse to give up over half your army's points. While killing the crap out of your opponent.

There's a lot of other things to consider, but everyone above has covered that follow-your-heart stuff, so I'm just here to reply to the topic.

"Hardest to kill" and "Toughest armor" aren't the same.

Higher str attacks reduce armor saves. And you don't have to get that high (4 is -1, 5 is -2, etc). Nothing reduces Ward saves.

Ogres with Gut Magic can be very hard to kill as said.

Vampire Counts and the new Tomb Kings (I'm guessing) are very easy to kill, but very hard to stay killed.

Straight armor, it's a close match between WoC, Lizardmen and I hear Brets (I don't know them).

Daemons all have ward saves, so that's also something.

I'm not sure Bretonnian all-knight armies work very well. They may have good AS but they IMO need peasant blocks to remove steadfast once in a while, and we all know peasant armour isn't impressive.

True. But I have seen Brettonians with a 15-knight lance that blows stuff up on the charge. Coupled with some smaller lances for maneuverability...it might be tricky, but I think it's possible.

But then, I'm not suggesting that those armies are the best, from a tactical, financial, or any other point. I'm just looking for the armies that are the most capable of producing dudes that are hard to kill.

you can't get a 15 knight lance without characters.

the max unit size for knight units is 12. you would have to be rocking 3 characters to get 15 models.

...Yes.

Knights of the realm and kinghts errant can be in units of 15. Grail Knight max out at 12. Questing Knights are next to useless.

Plus you heroes are only 80 pts for a Paladin with 3 attacks, s6, ws 5, I 5, 2+ AS, and 5+/6+ ward. For quality heroes, bretonnians have the edge. They have the most armored army and the 15 knight lance is a major combat breaker. With 4 ranks it can easily take steadfast from most ememies especially when used correctly with a 9 knight lance.

Pesants help to for a more competitive army, but they are not necessary. Go Bretonnians, they are the most armored.

I am a WOC player, and frankly we are extremely hard to kill, my standard army is known for being extremely frustrating for many armies, the only thing that ever worries me is the nasty whole unit no save spells. . .

We can field better Ogres than Ogre Kingdoms, we have better knights than Brettonia, we move faster than dwarves and our base troops fight better than them. The only thing we lack really is access to the lore of Life, or the Lore of Light and frankly thats a good thing, I get enough complaining as is.

better Ogres

you trade Armor piercing attacks for a 5+ armor save and lose Bull Charge.

i think Chaos ogres are about 5 points too expensive.

Perhaps. And while Citadel may be right on the stats, there's something to be said about price. Warriors have good stuff, but they pay a lot for it. 'Cept Marauders.

That aside, there's something to be said about awesome stats. Sometimes, it barely matters how much your unit costs. If it kills stuff dead and nothing can stand in it's way, it's worth it. Blood Knights, properly fielded and poorly matched, are the scariest models out there. And they should be.

But my vote for this thread remains WoC.