Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I've started back up with 40k along with a few friends, and decided on Orks. While I really liked the Dread Mob list in IA8, I decided to start with something straight from Codex Orks, as I still think it is one of the most solid codexes released in recent years.

Anyway, I wanted to do something crazy with my army, as vanilla lists for any army aren't too appealing for me. Knowing I wanted lots of mechanical monsters I decided to take it one step further and have the average Orks fit the look as well and be heavily armored and cybernetic, so Grotsnik was a perfect fit.

Here's the jist of the army. Apologies for not having all the specifics, as I don't have my list or codex with me currently. Its a slow day in the office and I've got some time to kill.

HQ

Mad Dok Grotsnik

Big Mek
-KFF
-Burna
-Cybork

Elites

Nobz(8)
- PK x3
- BC x2
Painboy
-Cyborksx8
-'Eavy Armor x8
-Waaagh! Banner
- Bosspole

Battlewagon
-Deffrolla
-Bigshoota
-Red Paint Job

Lootas x10

Troops

Deff Dred
- Skorcha
-Grot riggers
-Armor Plates

'Ard Boyz(19)
- Nob
-PK
-'Eavy armor x19
-Cyborks x19
- Big Shoota

Grotz x20
x2 Runtherds

Fast Attack

Deffkoptas x3

Deffkoptas x3

Heavy Support

Kanz x3
Grotzookas x3

Kanz x3
Rokkits x3

Looted Wagon
- Skorcha
-Bigshoota
-RPJ
-Ram

I may have left a few upgrades out but it may be trivial upgrades, but list I wrote comes to an even 2000 points.

I realize this probably isn't too competitive, but I mostly plan on playing with friends. Besides I think its just a crazy fun list!

Let me know what you think or any changes you would make while keeping with the overall theme.

Not very good to be honest with you. Where are your boys? Where is your KFF mek. A kan wall NEEDS the KFF. Lootas should be in 2 units of 5. Looted Wagon doesn't fit and either does the BW nob unit. Needs more boys. Why have 20 grots? Take 19 and you need only one runthard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Deffkoptas need to have buzzsaws and need to be in single units to avoid running away.

skycapt44 wrote:Not very good to be honest with you. Where are your boys? Where is your KFF mek. A kan wall NEEDS the KFF. Lootas should be in 2 units of 5. Looted Wagon doesn't fit and either does the BW nob unit. Needs more boys. Why have 20 grots? Take 19 and you need only one runthard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Deffkoptas need to have buzzsaws and need to be in single units to avoid running away.

I have a KFF Mek in the list.

Its themed list. A cookie cutter Kan Wall list with hordes of boyz isn't what I'm going for. All the regular Orks/Nobz have 'Eavy armor and cybork bodies. Orks with 4+/5++ and FNP is fun. That said I would have included another shoota boy cybork squad if I had the points cause I like shoota boyz.

I disagree on the Lootas squad size, but to each his own, YMMV, etc.

Looted wagon carries the Nobz and Mek. BW carries the boyz and Grotnik. I can't take a trukk so looted wagon was the only transport option. Plus I think skorcha wagons are cool.

Why Grots? I had exactly 80 points left and needed an objective holder. 20 grots and 2 runtherds filled up the remaining points exactly. Too bad I don't have an extra 100 to make them cygrots.

But yes, if I wanted a standard list I would need more boyz. I don't want a standard list. I'm not playing tournaments. I'm playing beer and pretzels games with close friends. I've done the competitive 40k thing in the past and played weekly against the BoLS crew, some of whom were multi time 'Ard Boyz and Adepticon tournament winners and create alot of the dreaded net lists like Leaf Blower, Nob Bikers, etc. I can build lists that are geared for winning, but that's not what I'm after. I thought that it was was pretty clear in my first post I was making a fun, themed list. I want crazy units that will do crazy things on the board. I'm not after generic lcopy/paste lists proven to be effective and been done to death by anyone who reads 40k blogs.

Anyway, I do appreciate the feedback.

I know this is gonna sound like it, but I really don't mean any hate by this but: I hate when people give suggestions in absolutes. Like, this unit HAS to be run this way. And skycapt44, this isn't directed to you personally, as I see this all the time, you just triggered my rant phase, I guess. Anyways, I much prefer suggestions/questions on how the list does so far instead of rewriting a list to a end all tournament list. Unless that's what they want. Ah, rant over!

Anyways! I like you list Cadaver. I have been eyeing Grotsnik and if he didn't add to the one problem I have with my Orks (taking up slots I want to use. :( ) He would be in my everylist. Anyways, I like the list. I questioned the Looted Wagon at first, but when you explained that it's for the Nobs and the Boyz take the Battlewagon, I support this. Still a BIT squishy for my tastes in Nob transports, but I like spamming Battlewagons.

SO, my major suggestion is the Deff Koptas. Maybe it's not as much in such a Walker heavy build, but I find Big Shootas on Koptas a bit of a waste since they COULD be Twin Linked Rokkits. Orks have enough ways to deal with Infantry; Nobs eat most anything in their path, Boyz have SO many attacks, and Walkers tie people up till the cows come home. So I think the Tank hunting they provide would be a better use. Buzzsaws work too.

Also on the Koptas, skycapt44 does have a point in in such small squads, making them take a break test is easier than we might like, and with Ld 7, they break more often than we like too. :( BUT, if you want the unit to have a possibility to make it farther than a one shot tank hunter, than numbers do help.

Last suggestion: I think you have a LOT of points in your Boyz. The 'Eavy Armor I think is the weakest there, IMO. Then again, I face a decent amount of power weapons. O_o The points might be better used elsewhere and just have the Cybork upgrade to give them a 5+. It is an improvement still and can be taken in the face of mass power weapons.

All in all, I like it, looks like a lot of fun! Would love to hear how it fares.

Thanks for the feedback!

I did consider an extra BW rather than a looted wagon, but I didn't have the points and as I said previously I think skorcha wagons are cool. The idea of a crazed Ork driving a flame-throwing vehicle straight the enemy makes me laugh, even if it gets popped before it gets there. Hopefully the Big mek riding along can help the survivability.

Deff Koptas SHOULD have rokkits. Something I just overlooked when writing up the list. The plan was to use the TL rokkits for anti-tank so that will be amended in the list. I'd like to try out buzz saws as well if I can find the points, or just to change up the list as I'll have some extra deffkoptas I can convert for this purpose. Also since they are my only fast attack options I probably will split them in 3 squads of 2.

The Ard Boyz are definitely a pricey unit, almost ridiculously so. But again, this is more of a case of me liking the idea of the unit. Also, my main opponents will be IG, Tyranids and Iron Warriors, so the Eavy Armor should be useful in most cases. It is worth considering dropping depending on how I find things to go with objective capturing and holding. I could theoretically swap the eavy armor for cybork bodies on another boyz squad if I can find the points to include more boyz.

Thanks again for the suggestions. Its exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for as I tend to agree with your rant portion that lots of people just try and make suggestions that change the whole list to whatever is currently being parroted around the blogosphere. It takes genuine codex knowledge to actually analyze a list as is rather than just change it to "whats hot" and say thats how the army should be played, regardless of the army.

It may be some time before I can get back on how it plays, as I've just ordered the army online and haven't received the bulk of the kits yet, but I'll try and post an update when I get some games in!

skycapt44 wrote:Not very good to be honest with you. Where are your boys? Where is your KFF mek. A kan wall NEEDS the KFF. Lootas should be in 2 units of 5. Looted Wagon doesn't fit and either does the BW nob unit. Needs more boys. Why have 20 grots? Take 19 and you need only one runthard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Deffkoptas need to have buzzsaws and need to be in single units to avoid running away.

As he said!

And reason why people say x, y, z for it because it works. People aren't going to tell you rubbish advice, well not all of them

mercer wrote:

skycapt44 wrote:Not very good to be honest with you. Where are your boys? Where is your KFF mek. A kan wall NEEDS the KFF. Lootas should be in 2 units of 5. Looted Wagon doesn't fit and either does the BW nob unit. Needs more boys. Why have 20 grots? Take 19 and you need only one runthard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Deffkoptas need to have buzzsaws and need to be in single units to avoid running away.

As he said!

And reason why people say x, y, z for it because it works. People aren't going to tell you rubbish advice, well not all of them

Yes and no. Well, as least what I find is that most people tell you what they know is good. But they don't necesarily tell you what ELSE is good. The Ork codex, IMO, is great and well rounded, haven't found any one unit that doesn't have a use. Anyways, I'm patient Cadaver, report back when ya can. XD

mercer wrote:

skycapt44 wrote:Not very good to be honest with you. Where are your boys? Where is your KFF mek. A kan wall NEEDS the KFF. Lootas should be in 2 units of 5. Looted Wagon doesn't fit and either does the BW nob unit. Needs more boys. Why have 20 grots? Take 19 and you need only one runthard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Deffkoptas need to have buzzsaws and need to be in single units to avoid running away.

As he said!

And reason why people say x, y, z for it because it works. People aren't going to tell you rubbish advice, well not all of them

Fair enough, except I know what works in a traditional list. In fact, anyone can "know" what works by reading any number of the competitive 40k blogs around the net. I'm not new to 40k, I'm making a themed army, and was pretty straight forward by asking for suggestions as long as it stuck to the theme I was after. That was the last sentence of my first post. Changing the entire list to the "standard" Kan Wall list doesn't help, nor does it really help to tell me to add units I already had in my list. It just came across as a quick skim over my list without reading it in its entirety and telling me to run what everyone else runs and is known to work.

I don't want it to seem like I'm going after skycapt44, cause I'm not. I appreciate anyone who takes the time to post a response, but that doesn't mean I won't post my disagreement to their opinion. I guess it would be like me posting a gunline IG list and someone posting, "why do that?, you have to to lots of melta vets and chimeras for IG or its not very good."

I guess my point is it's more helpful to give advice like flamingwalnut did which sticks to the type of list I'm going for while giving suggestions for improvement with the units I plan to take.

9 Nobs and you hold together better with Mob Rule!

I like themed lists as well, the standard lists - while competitive, are so predictable. My list has 3 Supa-Kannon as Artillery and 3 BW to start. :0

Having cybork Ard Boyz, I think, is the problem. Sure they will be tough have a 4+/5++ but thats also ALOT of points. If you drop the eavy armor thats 76pts right off the bat.

Infact, if you drop the eavy armor from all the nobs, your Ard boyz, 1 pk from the nobs mob (trust me 2 is plenty 3 is 25pt over kill) 1 grot +runtherd and the burna from the BigMek (I say this only for this reason. I only take an extra weapon on a BigMek if points allow. USually the BigMek is either out of range, or is to close and gets singled out in CC therefore wasting the points on the weapon. So just a thought here) But if you drop those, Youve got 176pts to spend now. So drop a deffkopta or 2 and you can kit out another cybork mob of shootas. Then you will have a better chance of winning.

One of the biggest strengths of Orks is being able to have alot of Boyz and alot of pk nobs in those boyz. Only taking one mob of boyz is never a smart move, no matter the point cost of the game.

I do like the idea of having a boat load of cybork saves in an Ork build. It just makes them so much tougher. Some day Im sure Ill give it a try

Well I decided to rework the list to be extra krumpy and less practical, just because. Besides orks never lose - they can always come back for unnver go, see?

HQ

Big Mek - 90
-KFF
-Cybork

Mad Dok Grotsnik - 160

Elites

Nobz(8) - 350
PK x2
BC x2
'Eavy Armor x8
Painboy
Cybork x8
Waaagh! Banner
Bosspole

Trukk - 40
-RPJ

Lootas(10) - 150

Troops

Deff Dread - 110
DCCW
Skorcha
Grot riggers
Armor Plates

'Ard Boyz(19) - 325
Nob
PK
Cyborks
Shootas
Big Shoota

Fast Attack

Deff Koptas(2) - 100
TL Rokkits
Cyborks x2

Deff Koptas(2) - 100
TL Rokkits
Cyborks x2

Deff Koptas(2) - 100
TL Rokkits
Cyborks x2

Heavy Support

Killa Kanz x3 - 135
Grotzookas x3

Killa Kanz x3 - 120
Skorchas x3

Killa Kanz x3 - 120
Skorchas x3


Total: 2000 points


Yeah, I know, less scoring units. But like Jack Burton always says, never drive faster than you can see, and besides, it's all in the reflexes.

You still REALLY need another unit of boyz. Seriously, even playing for fun and whatnot, your going to need at least 1 more unit of boyz

Ok, I added in more boyz. Not as fun but I guess I should make some effort to capture objectives.

HQ

Big Mek - 90
-KFF
-Cybork

Mad Dok Grotsnik - 160

Elites

Nobz(8) - 350
PK x2
BC x2
'Eavy Armor x8
Painboy
Cybork x8
Waaagh! Banner
Bosspole

Trukk - 40
-RPJ

Lootas(10) - 150

Troops

Deff Dread - 110
DCCW
Skorcha
Grot riggers
Armor Plates

Boyz(15) - 205
Nob
PK
Cyborks
Shootas
Big Shoota

Boyz(15) - 205
Nob
PK
Cyborks
Shootas
Big Shoota

Fast Attack

Deff Koptas(2) - 100
TL Rokkits
Cyborks x2

Deff Koptas(2) - 100
TL Rokkits
Cyborks x2

Deff Koptas(2) - 100
TL Rokkits
Cyborks x2

Heavy Support

Killa Kanz x3 - 135
Grotzookas x3

Killa Kanz x3 - 150
Rokkits x3

Battlewagon - 105
Big Shoota x2
RPJ

Total: 2000

Cadaver wrote:

mercer wrote:

skycapt44 wrote:Not very good to be honest with you. Where are your boys? Where is your KFF mek. A kan wall NEEDS the KFF. Lootas should be in 2 units of 5. Looted Wagon doesn't fit and either does the BW nob unit. Needs more boys. Why have 20 grots? Take 19 and you need only one runthard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Deffkoptas need to have buzzsaws and need to be in single units to avoid running away.

As he said!

And reason why people say x, y, z for it because it works. People aren't going to tell you rubbish advice, well not all of them

Fair enough, except I know what works in a traditional list. In fact, anyone can "know" what works by reading any number of the competitive 40k blogs around the net. I'm not new to 40k, I'm making a themed army, and was pretty straight forward by asking for suggestions as long as it stuck to the theme I was after. That was the last sentence of my first post. Changing the entire list to the "standard" Kan Wall list doesn't help, nor does it really help to tell me to add units I already had in my list. It just came across as a quick skim over my list without reading it in its entirety and telling me to run what everyone else runs and is known to work.

I don't want it to seem like I'm going after skycapt44, cause I'm not. I appreciate anyone who takes the time to post a response, but that doesn't mean I won't post my disagreement to their opinion. I guess it would be like me posting a gunline IG list and someone posting, "why do that?, you have to to lots of melta vets and chimeras for IG or its not very good."

I guess my point is it's more helpful to give advice like flamingwalnut did which sticks to the type of list I'm going for while giving suggestions for improvement with the units I plan to take.

If you actually read Skycapt44's advice he wasn't telling you change the Kan Wall list to a Battlewagon likst like you've said with your example on Guard. He's said take out certain units because they do not go in your list. That's not saying take this because it works, he's saying take this because it fits your army better and works much better. Though going in detail can help because it's easy to say take out x y z because those units are rubbish and add a b c, sometimes people need to know why to do that.

Cadaver wrote:Ok, I added in more boyz. Not as fun but I guess I should make some effort to capture objectives.

HQ

Big Mek - 90
-KFF
-Cybork

Mad Dok Grotsnik - 160

Elites

Nobz(8) - 350
PK x2
BC x2
'Eavy Armor x8
Painboy
Cybork x8
Waaagh! Banner
Bosspole

Trukk - 40
-RPJ

Lootas(10) - 150

Troops

Deff Dread - 110
DCCW
Skorcha
Grot riggers
Armor Plates

Boyz(15) - 205
Nob
PK
Cyborks
Shootas
Big Shoota

Boyz(15) - 205
Nob
PK
Cyborks
Shootas
Big Shoota

Fast Attack

Deff Koptas(2) - 100
TL Rokkits
Cyborks x2

Deff Koptas(2) - 100
TL Rokkits
Cyborks x2

Deff Koptas(2) - 100
TL Rokkits
Cyborks x2

Heavy Support

Killa Kanz x3 - 135
Grotzookas x3

Killa Kanz x3 - 150
Rokkits x3

Battlewagon - 105
Big Shoota x2
RPJ

Total: 2000

Looks like a fun list! Can't wait to play against it soon my friend

skycapt44 wrote:Not very good to be honest with you. Where are your boys? Where is your KFF mek. A kan wall NEEDS the KFF. Lootas should be in 2 units of 5. Looted Wagon doesn't fit and either does the BW nob unit. Needs more boys. Why have 20 grots? Take 19 and you need only one runthard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Deffkoptas need to have buzzsaws and need to be in single units to avoid running away.

I'm just curious, but do you actually read the comments on the army, or do you just check the units, and then give your input on how to Cookie Cutter it into one of the accepted Meta builds?

It really seems like the latter, to me.





Anyways, like the list. That's actually something similar fluff wise to what I was trying for when I originally started, only instead of going with Grotsnik, I decided on lots of Meks and lots and lots of walkers. Heck, even one of my Battlewagons has legs.