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Clearly I am doing something horribly wrong.

I've been playing a few test games, and I simply cannot make my light cavalry do a damn thing useful in any game. I've tried TK's light horsemen, HE's reavers, and gobbos on both spiders and wolves.

I usually try and use them as war machine hunters, screening units from charges, and so on, but they've never managed to earn their points yet, and I'm wondering if other people have the same problem. Do you make extensive use of light cav with your armies? Do they earn their place? What tactics do you use?

So far, I've managed to use them effectively ONCE - a unit of elf reavers used the Flee! reaction to leave some chariots stranded, and then used the fast reform to move behind cover. That worked well enough until the following turn when the chariots braved the dangerous terrain tests to charge them in the flank and wipe out the unit. So in the long run, it didn't really work... but at the TIME it looked brilliantly planned.

Wolf riders are great. 12" move before the game +reform into 1 wide, then charge a warmachine with your average 18" range, and since you declare 6 models to fight, they all get their attacks. Then overrun and somewhat marchblock (if they fail Ld) before hunting another machine

Huh.
My wolf riders suffer from the Can't charge if you go first rule with the van guard movement; find themselves out of the generals Ld bubble; take a few loss from shooting, then panic off the table.

I'm glad they work for you.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:Huh.
My wolf riders suffer from the Can't charge if you go first rule with the van guard movement; find themselves out of the generals Ld bubble; take a few loss from shooting, then panic off the table.

I'm glad they work for you.

-Matt

Do you expect any thing different from goblins? a fleeing goblin is a happy goblin.

Fast cav generally suffer in 8th, but do serve a good purpose as zeekill described, either hunting warmachines or drawing charges (and fleeing, causing them to fail, or simply taking it and pointing the enemy block in the wrong direction with their overrun, or setting them up for a multi-charge in your turn if they reform).

Fast Cav rarely makes up it's own point cost... directly.

I ask you, what did those chariots that did in your reavers do for the next couple of turns? Probably not very much, right? So that's what the Reavers did for you that game - they took those chariots out of the game for a couple of turns.

So the next question is, what did you do to capitolize on their absence? Given nature of your complaint, I would guess your answer is 'very little.'


Fast Cav does not go in and slaughter stuff. That is the role of heavy cav and elite infantry. Fast Cav dominates the maneuver phase, and gets the other guy to do things he didn't (or shouldn't, at least) want to do for fear of what the Fast Cav off on his flank might do.

So. When you position your Fast Cav to flee, make sure that they will flee in a direction that causes the enemy unit to charge in the direction you want them to. Ideally, you should have something ready to flank-charge the failed chargers going after your Fast Cav. Failing that, drawing the enemy over dangerous terrain and causing a casualty or two is nice. You can bet he won't risk that move the other way, so now to get back to the main fight he has to maneuver around it. And sometimes, just getting that big nasty unit to waste a crucial turn or two failing to kill your Fast Cav as they chase them around is it's own reward.

And if your Fast Cav is getting shot to pieces, either you need to take more care in positioning them... or take advantage of the fact that the enemy is shooting up a unit that can't directly harm them by bringing a nastier unit that much closer.

Vulcan wrote:Fast Cav rarely makes up it's own point cost... directly.

I ask you, what did those chariots that did in your reavers do for the next couple of turns? Probably not very much, right? So that's what the Reavers did for you that game - they took those chariots out of the game for a couple of turns.

So the next question is, what did you do to capitolize on their absence? Given nature of your complaint, I would guess your answer is 'very little.'


Fast Cav does not go in and slaughter stuff. That is the role of heavy cav and elite infantry. Fast Cav dominates the maneuver phase, and gets the other guy to do things he didn't (or shouldn't, at least) want to do for fear of what the Fast Cav off on his flank might do.

So. When you position your Fast Cav to flee, make sure that they will flee in a direction that causes the enemy unit to charge in the direction you want them to. Ideally, you should have something ready to flank-charge the failed chargers going after your Fast Cav. Failing that, drawing the enemy over dangerous terrain and causing a casualty or two is nice. You can bet he won't risk that move the other way, so now to get back to the main fight he has to maneuver around it. And sometimes, just getting that big nasty unit to waste a crucial turn or two failing to kill your Fast Cav as they chase them around is it's own reward.

And if your Fast Cav is getting shot to pieces, either you need to take more care in positioning them... or take advantage of the fact that the enemy is shooting up a unit that can't directly harm them by bringing a nastier unit that much closer.

Absolutely correct assessment...the issue is not if they make their points back, but if they help you win the game....in the end it is that fact which matters..correction, it is making sure you have fun while playing the game, (and winning it of course!!!)

My pistoliers routinely tie up a great big troop of khorne dogs for several turns, restricting them to one-dice moves. Then my opponent gets angry with them and either fires his hellcannon at them (win) or uses up power dice killing them (even more win).

Also, remember, frenzy MUST overrun. You can't even test. IF you can angle your little horsies correctly, just take the charge and the great big halberdstar goes charging off to nowhere, or to somewhere where it can be flanked.

I guess what I really need is just to adjust my expectations. I still feel disappointed when a unit is wiped out, even if they accomplished something. In the reavers case I outlined above, it did effectively take the chariots out of the game, as it took them three turns to get turned around and to reach the bridge leading to the watchtower. And, by that time, the elves had managed to bring in a unit of white lions to form a speed bump.

On the other side of the table, the TK light horse pretty much took the swordmasters out of the fight, despite being brutalized for their effort. However, that side of the table was so clogged with forests, it's hard to tell how effective the SMs would have been in any case.

The goblins I'm less worried about, as they're essentially a novelty army for me, anyway. I never actually expect to win with them. But the TK and HE armies I hope to make at least reasonably competitive (though fluffy), and I just wanted to make sure everything I throw out there has SOME reason to be there.

Thanks for the input!

Malleus wrote:Also, remember, frenzy MUST overrun. You can't even test. IF you can angle your little horsies correctly, just take the charge and the great big halberdstar goes charging off to nowhere, or to somewhere where it can be flanked.

This.

Well... this and 6 Goblin Spear Chukkas in the flank of Khorne Chaos Knights

Also i wasn't talking about a goblin army. Its an orc army with goblin units in there to support.

HawaiiMatt wrote:Huh.
My wolf riders suffer from the Can't charge if you go first rule with the van guard movement; find themselves out of the generals Ld bubble; take a few loss from shooting, then panic off the table.

I'm glad they work for you.

-Matt

I've used Spider Riders for the same effect. However, you can put your opponent in a difficult position.

If you go first, you can't charge, but you can shoot with your goblins on wolves at the opponent's war machines. You might also be able to give some important units protection by providing cover. If your opponent shoots at them, he's not shooting at more important stuff.

If you go second, charge them into war machines if they survive turn one. Revel in the shots your opponent spends shooting up goblins. Stupid grots!

In any case, you can use cheap, highly maneuverable units to catch bullets. Given that you can put cheap goblin heroes in them, they can even pack a punch if needed.

I know that in my planned Spider Kult army (building now), those spider riders are going to be a decision point for my opponent. Do I shoot up the spider riders who might not do anything to me, or do I shoot the BIG SPIDERS. Either he ignores them and they get around his flanks and rear, or he spends ammo on gobbos he could be spending on my Arachnaroks.