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Is the Logan Wing build viable or practical?
Yes
No
Only the all Drop Pod version
Only the Drop Pod/Land Raider hybrid
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#1 Supporter of Dakka Fascism





Pasadena

I have around 23 Space Wolf Terminator models including a custom Grimnar, Rune Priest and a bunch of CC and Shooty Wolf Guard Terminators. I want to flesh it out to around 35 and add a few more drop pods. But I got to thinking, at 2500 points, whether you run all Drop Pod or a combo of DP and Land Raiders is an all Wolf Guard Terminator list viable or even a practical build? I haven't seen it done, and on paper looks decent. I have run 10 WGT in a list before and it was fun and powerful, but I am wary of most all Terminator lists due to small model count.

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Dashofpepper wrote:
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This is my usual list for my wolves and it does fairly well

Logan Grimnar

Njal Stormcaller

10 wolf guard in termie armor 1 assault canon 1 cyclone missile launcher

2x units of 10 grey hunters with meltas

1x unit of 10 sky claws, with one wolf guard pack leader leading them, with melta bombs

3x units of 5x long fangs all with missile launchers

5 to 10 scouts with snipers, melta bombs, and hand to hand weapons, so I can either sit back and pew pew pew or I can run up and destroy vehicles

a lone wolf with a fenrisian wolf, claws, termie armor, melta bombs (really just a point filler and actually my lone wolf usually kicks some ass then dies, which is what he is suppose to do)


Now here is where I get optional. Sometimes I will split off that wolf guard, in two units, one with grimnar one by itself and drop pod them. This has worked out fairly well. Plus if you go with wolf claws on your termies they are up in the face of your opponent and can really unleash a nasty assault. One I get some fenrisizian wolves I will probably replace my skyclaws with them but I haven't got the models yet. Then I dump Njal in a unit of grey hunters and let them do his storm calling and psyker powers. Logan leads the termies with this special rules and I usually give them either tank hunter or preferred enemy. The long fangs do what the long fangs do. I usually don't take tanks anymore because they just get blown to bits in the first turn almost every game.

I just got back into the game after a very long break (15 years) and when I rescued my minis from a dusty box stuffed away in my parents basement I had all of them. Back in the day I fielded tons of termies so I have about 25 to 30 wolf guard models in terminator armor (old 2nd edition metal) and have really thought about fielding a 100% wolf guard army in termie armor. But to be honest, I just don't think it would pan out. You look at mob armies (guard and orks) and then shooting armies like Tau and heck even Eldar and they will force you to make so many saves per a turn you eventually will start to lose a ton of termies. From a probability stand point you will lose some. Their point cost is high and when you are saving 50+ shots a turn you will roll some 1s. In a bad turn you will roll lots of 1s. I say diversify your army and do not build a 1 trick pony. If you put that build against my other armies (orks, nids, or IG) I would simply just mob you with shots. I would do blobs of IG, tons of boyz in trukks, or tons of gants with my nids (though my 2nd edition nid army is highly lacking all new models), or if we were playing marines against marines I would simply out assault you and with my 15 long fangs with str 8 krak missiles I would be taking out termies every turn.


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[DCM]
Resident Ethicist




Champaign, IL

A PURE Loganwing? No.

I've tabled loganwing every time I've come across against it, except for once, when there was one model left.

Loganwing combined with other things, perhaps (like the above poster), but just a pure terminator list will have serious problems.


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Do note that when fielding wolf guard with Logan present they count as troop types so they can hold objectives. This is huge because most people forget that and think that they are actually elites. I have drop poded (is that even a word?) wolf guard on an objective before and held it the whole game. My opponent at the time let me have it thinking I was only contesting it with elite troops, and when I explained to him that when Logan is present all wolf guard count as troop types he started laughing, then got mad. Of course my friends are marine haters, so they love to get mad at marines (I am the only marine player in my group).

If you do not take logan I suggest splitting up the grey hunters or field more so you can have more objective holding units. The other route is to do 6 man squads with meltas in razor backs. I only got 2 razor back models though so I don't do that.

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Wolf Guard Bodyguard in Terminator Armor





Dallas, TX

Ailaros +1. SW pure termie overpays for goodies. However, taking Logan with lots of 5 man WG in power armor squads each porting a CML/AssCan termie in optional razorbacks is very nasty.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/03/15 17:29:38


-James
 
   
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jmurph wrote:Ailaros +1. SW pure termie overpays for goodies. However, taking Logan with lots of 5 man WG in power armor squads each porting a CML/AssCan termie in optional razorbacks is very nasty.


I was about to say exactly this. Don't go full terminator unless you're like me and REALLY like Terminators.
   
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Pure terminator anything can't hang, be it the old tzeentch dustwing, deathwing, grey knight terminators, lustwing, or loganwing armies.

Basically speaking, a terminator costs more than twice that of a marine, but isn't twice as tough or puts out twice as much firepower. On a point for point comparison, even as troops, they are garbage.

They are also specifically weak against low ap shooting, which almost every army has the potential to have an abundance of.

And to address storm shields...Marines in cover have a 4+ cover. If they go to ground, 3+. The only time storm shields make terminators truly tougher than marines is in the event of no cover saves, be it in hth or shooting.

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Longtime Dakkanaut






Scuddman Wrote:

And to address storm shields...Marines in cover have a 4+ cover. If they go to ground, 3+. The only time storm shields make terminators truly tougher than marines is in the event of no cover saves, be it in hth or shooting.


People seem to forget how important terrain is in this game, especially in 5th ED. You are one of the few that I have seen even mentioning about cover saves. Thanks.

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[DCM]
#1 Supporter of Dakka Fascism





Pasadena

I don't really want to have my Grey Hunters/Wolf Guard go to ground since usually they are needed to do more than camp objectives. Going to ground is great if all you need to do is survive one last round of shooting to contest/hold an objective, but if you need that unit to do something important during your turn then going to ground isn't a very good option.

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Dashofpepper wrote:
If I enter the Olympics in the 100 meter dash, out of shape and not ready for it....and I get smoked....are my competitors bad sportsmen for putting me to shame? Absolutely not. As in 40k, getting blown out of the water is an opportunity for introspection and self-improvement, not an invitation to criticize and bemoan.
 
   
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[DCM]
Resident Ethicist




Champaign, IL

Wow, it's funny to see the discrepancy between what has been said in the posts and how the vote count stacks up.


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Read my new Astra Militarum overview here.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.  
   
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[DCM]
#1 Supporter of Dakka Fascism





Pasadena

Ailaros wrote:Wow, it's funny to see the discrepancy between what has been said in the posts and how the vote count stacks up.



Ya, I think the no votes are just more vocal about why they think it isn't viable whereas those in favor just say they are in favor and leave it at that. It would be nice to get a bit of reasoning behind their vote though.

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Dashofpepper wrote:
If I enter the Olympics in the 100 meter dash, out of shape and not ready for it....and I get smoked....are my competitors bad sportsmen for putting me to shame? Absolutely not. As in 40k, getting blown out of the water is an opportunity for introspection and self-improvement, not an invitation to criticize and bemoan.
 
   
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Wolf Guard Bodyguard in Terminator Armor





Dallas, TX

One of the flaws of anonymous voting, alas. As they say, opinions are kinda of like noses (or other less savory body parts ;-)- everyone has one. Explaining that position can be more difficult....

Anecdotally, how often do you hear anyone complaining they can't beat Loganwing? Or even talking about it at all....

-James
 
   
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#1 Supporter of Dakka Fascism





Pasadena

jmurph wrote:One of the flaws of anonymous voting, alas. As they say, opinions are kinda of like noses (or other less savory body parts ;-)- everyone has one. Explaining that position can be more difficult....

Anecdotally, how often do you hear anyone complaining they can't beat Loganwing? Or even talking about it at all....


Now that is a good argument. I hadn't thought of it that way, I may still build a Loganwing list just because I love WGT but I won't expect it to annihilate all comers.

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Dashofpepper wrote:
If I enter the Olympics in the 100 meter dash, out of shape and not ready for it....and I get smoked....are my competitors bad sportsmen for putting me to shame? Absolutely not. As in 40k, getting blown out of the water is an opportunity for introspection and self-improvement, not an invitation to criticize and bemoan.
 
   
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Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

I think the Logan/WG-based list is very good, but not usually the all-terminator version. Terminators supported by walking PA WG squads led by dudes with Cyclones is pretty solid, and has a high scoring unit count.

Pure terminator Loganwing is generally a bit overpriced on a per-termie basis. However, they can get cyclones and have logan's unit-enhancing abilities (like a SM army), while ALSO spamming cheap combi-weapons (like Chaos). I think combining these two attributes is key to getting the best mileage out of SW termies.


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Beaver Dam, WI

Just played an 1850 tournie and pulled out a logan wing.

Logan, Wolf Priest, Njal

16 termies
6 Longfangs.

I got creamed against a melta-heavy dreadnought list and got creamed by a SOB list. Only thing I owned was a CSM list. The lack of wounds just catches up with termies. Give the T5 or W2 and maybe but invariably I was making the invulnerable saves and then dropping on a roll of 1 to a stormbolter. Also an excorsit that refused to die...

Now I am not the best but I am consistently top-3 in most tournies due to skill and knowledge of list building. From a list building perspective Logan-wing is fun but barely 30 wounds is not a good match up. Non-mobile non-firepower awesome CC just doesn't work too well

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I voted no, and still stand by my statement. You can not one trick pony your way to victory in 40k, you need to diversify your army list. I am not saying a terminator wing will lose 100% of their games, but I am saying that it will be hard to win. Especially when you have basic units using cover saves to get past the brutal firepower of any termie heavy weapon and then returning 3 times the fire back at the terminator. You will eventually roll a 1.


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Lord of the Blood Angels





Steelcity

In last years 'ard boyz I totally dominated all 6 games of prelims and semis using Loganwing.. Very dangerous list

However, of course, an all terminator list is bad.. Unless youre playing new deathwing it' horrid.. This has been the same nearly 10 years!

The only terminators I used had CMLs and the rest were wolfguard


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DAaddict wrote:Just played an 1850 tournie and pulled out a logan wing.

Logan, Wolf Priest, Njal

16 termies
6 Longfangs.

I got creamed against a melta-heavy dreadnought list and got creamed by a SOB list. Only thing I owned was a CSM list. The lack of wounds just catches up with termies. Give the T5 or W2 and maybe but invariably I was making the invulnerable saves and then dropping on a roll of 1 to a stormbolter. Also an excorsit that refused to die...

Now I am not the best but I am consistently top-3 in most tournies due to skill and knowledge of list building. From a list building perspective Logan-wing is fun but barely 30 wounds is not a good match up. Non-mobile non-firepower awesome CC just doesn't work too well


SOB does very well against MEQs though, especially builds with low model counts. AP1 Flamers clears the board.

Read my story at:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/515293.page#5420356



 
   
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Wolf Guard Bodyguard in Terminator Armor





Dallas, TX

Also, 3 HQ and 22 dudes is pretty terrible in 1850! Until you hit about 2000, I wouldn't really even consider a second HQ if you are going that termi heavy.

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Well, I partly take back what I said. I think anything is viable in 40K as long as you have a valid strategy and your opponent doesn't heavily counter it. So, while not impossible to be effective, I find it very improbable.

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OverwatchCNC wrote:
Ailaros wrote:Wow, it's funny to see the discrepancy between what has been said in the posts and how the vote count stacks up.



Ya, I think the no votes are just more vocal about why they think it isn't viable whereas those in favor just say they are in favor and leave it at that. It would be nice to get a bit of reasoning behind their vote though.


I think it has to do with the wording of the post. I mean from a pratical prespective its fairly cheap army to build, and as far as how viable it is I don't think its a top level army but it isn't horrible either.

 
   
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#1 Supporter of Dakka Fascism





Pasadena

The list I have been kicking around is a 2500 pt Ard Boyz list.

HQ
Logan
2x Rune Priests in TDA JotWW/SC JotWW/LL
Troops:
3x WGT (5) kitted out with 5SS/x in Drop Pods (one unit has only 4 models)
2x WGT (5) kitted out with 2x Combimelta, CML, one SS/Chainfist Drop Pods
1x WGT (4) Kitted out with 2x Combiflamer, Heavyflamer, one SS and Arjac
Heavy:
Long Fangs (6) 5x Multi Melta leader has a Meltagun and Drop Pod

Logan+Arjac drop with the Long Fangs
One Rune Priest goes with a shooty WGT unit one goes with an Assault Oriented one. I can drop them in Shooty, Assault, or combo waves. Just a thought I had.

I would need to buy 5 Drop Pods and 10 more Terminators to make it work but it looked fun so I wanted to find out what people thought before investing the time and money.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/03/17 21:46:58


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Dashofpepper wrote:
If I enter the Olympics in the 100 meter dash, out of shape and not ready for it....and I get smoked....are my competitors bad sportsmen for putting me to shame? Absolutely not. As in 40k, getting blown out of the water is an opportunity for introspection and self-improvement, not an invitation to criticize and bemoan.
 
   
 
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