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Whilst talking about counters for MSU lists, Doomie came to mind as a lovely little hoover. It then occurred to me that if this beast supposedly absorbed an entire Craftworld without a Wraithcannon or Firepike blatting it, it probably has a more brutal 'overfed' form that turns it into a one-model deathstar, rather than a localised alpha strike that then gets ID'd.

Now, I've not developed this idea beyond a brainfart, but how does this sound as a rough framework:

- Doomie has three profiles: regular, MC, and Gargantuan.

- Doomie starts out with 'Codex' profile, rules as normal.

- Doomie gains 'Metamorphosis' rule: If Doomie ends any player turn with 10W, it it replaced with Monstrous Doomie.

I was also pondering if there ought to be rules for Doomie benefitting from absorbing Psykers, but couldn't think of a suitably KISS rule that didn't completely destroy Eldar, Tyranids and GK.

The below profiles represent a Monstrous and Gargantuan Doomie that are simply larger versions of its regular self; I'm also thinking about an alternative interpretation - perhaps solopsistically based on my own maggot-looking Doomie - in which regular Doomie is a larval form, Monstrous Doomie is a cocoon (the trollforged model used by Kroothawk comes to mind), and a final flying insect form - I'm thinking a moth, but a hornet or suchlike could be equally valid.




Monstrous Doomie:

Ws4 Bs4 SX T6 W4 I3 A3 Ld10 Sv4+/3++

Scything Talons, Psyker, Fearless, Feed, Monstrous Creature, Absorb Life.

Monstrous Psychic Strength: Monstrous Doomie's S is equal to its remaining W +2, to a limit of 10.

Monstrous Spirit Leech: Range increased to 12". If within 6", units have a -2Ld penalty.

Dire Cataclysm: As Cataclysm, but uses 7" template and inflicts 2D3W on Doomie.

Monstrous Metamorphosis: If Monstrous Doomie ends any player turn with 10W, it it replaced with Gargantuan Doomie.

Withering hunger: If, at the start of a friendly turn, Monstrous Doomie has not gained any W from its Absorb Life rule since the start of the previous friendly turn, it is replaced by regular Doomie. (If Monstrous Doomie is reduced to W0, it dies as normal.)



Gargantuan Doomie:

Ws4 Bs4 SX T8 W4 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv3+/3++

Scything Talons x 2, Psyker, Fearless, Feed, Gargantuan Creature, Absorb Life.

Gargantuan Psychic Strength: Monstrous Doomie's S is equal to its remaining W +4, to a limit of 10.

Gargantuan Spirit Leech: Range increased to 18". If within 12", units have a -2Ld penalty. If within 6", units have a -4Ld penalty.

Apocalyptic Cataclysm: As Cataclysm, but uses 10" template and inflicts 3D3W on Doomie.

Withering hunger: If, at the start of a friendly turn, Gargantuan Doomie has not gained any W from its Absorb Life rule since the start of the previous friendly turn, it is replaced by Monstrous Doomie. (If Gargantuan Doomie is reduced to W0, it dies as normal.)

It does look very good. And on first analysis i see you say 2D3W should that not be D6W as they are of equal amount.
I like the way how it works. But i think for regular you get normal rending claws, monstrous you get monstrous rending claws which auto penetarate on a 6 and re-roll 1's a bit like with scyhting talons... but free. For Gargantuan get gargantuan rending claws. auto penetrate on 5-6's and re-roll 1's.

Just an idea. As atm i see it as being a helpful unit... but compared to what it's fluff says i think it should be one hell of a bug. also points cost? I know it starts of as regular but it still must cost alot if it starts growing?

Detonator wrote:i see you say 2D3W should that not be D6W as they are of equal amount.

I wanted something that'd scale up for the lv3 evolution, which I've given 3D3 self-damage. The increasing size of blasts makes it more and more likely to inflict the optimum 9+W in a shooting attack, so a possible 9W self-damage seems fair. And its tendency to rapidly hoover up everything nearby will force it to gamble at throwing Cataclysms at long range to prevent Withering.

Detonator wrote:But i think for regular you get normal rending claws, monstrous you get monstrous rending claws which auto penetarate on a 6 and re-roll 1's a bit like with scyhting talons... but free. For Gargantuan get gargantuan rending claws. auto penetrate on 5-6's and re-roll 1's.

Regular Doomie has no special CC gear. Perhaps Monstrous could be given 1xTalons, and Gargantuan 2xTalons?

Detonator wrote:also points cost? I know it starts of as regular but it still must cost alot if it starts growing?

To be honest, I've no idea how to cost this. It starts off as a notoriously fragile unit, albeit one that with a Spod has a very good chance of turning into a reasonably robust MC. The payoff is very unreliable, nearest relevant formation I can think of is that CSM Dr Evil facility type thing which IIRC is about 400pts.

Looks awesome! I have a love/hate relationship with my Doom, but that looks like it could wreck an Apoc game.

I'd suggest doubling the normal cost of the model for point cost. Getting up to 10W in one turn isn't going to happen every time, so it's not like you are guaranteed to get to your next form by the end of your turn.

The only issue I see is using the powers on your 2 higher forms of the doom - 2D3 and 3D3 in particular both have the potential to kill your Malan'tai unless he has very high wounds at the time of use.

When you level up, I assume you take the base wounds of the new form.

Wonderful idea, by the way.

I like it! Mind if I link it to my Tyranid Apoc thread?

I'm a little confused at its wounds. After getting 10W, it changes to a MC and then a GC. So does that mean if the MC suffers 4W, it is not dead and instead reverts back to the regular Doom with 10W? Likewise, a GC Doom that loses 4W reverts back to a 10W MC? Is this your intent, or does a MC/GC Doom that loses its 4W dies? Also, what if the MC Doom loses a Wound to an attack that causes Instant Death?

Also, the testing multiple times within 6" and 12" can get confusing, especially in Apoc where there could easily be 10+ units within range. Having to keep track of all those units and how many times they have rolled can get fairly complex (as well as time consuming). My suggestion to simplify it would be this: -2 LD instead of testing twice and -4 LD instead of testing 3 times.

Also, I recommend increasing the range of Cataclysm - maybe 36" for MC Doom and 48" for GC Doom.

TheRedArmy wrote:The only issue I see is using the powers on your 2 higher forms of the doom - 2D3 and 3D3 in particular both have the potential to kill your Malan'tai unless he has very high wounds at the time of use.

Intentional. The idea is that Doomie is a creature with an extremely rapid metabolism that only gets more extreme as it grows more and more powerful - it can only sustain its most powerful form by being constantly in the centre of a mass of souls to devour, if it can't continually harvest then it will either wither away to its weaker form or give itself a fatal stroke trying to blast away at long range.

TheRedArmy wrote:When you level up, I assume you take the base wounds of the new form.

Indeed.

jy2 wrote:I like it! Mind if I link it to my Tyranid Apoc thread?

Go for it

jy2 wrote:I'm a little confused at its wounds. After getting 10W, it changes to a MC and then a GC. So does that mean if the MC suffers 4W, it is not dead and instead reverts back to the regular Doom with 10W? Likewise, a GC Doom that loses 4W reverts back to a 10W MC? Is this your intent, or does a MC/GC Doom that loses its 4W dies? Also, what if the MC Doom loses a Wound to an attack that causes Instant Death?

If you can get enough wounds past MC or GC Doomie's T and Sv to take it down to 0W, you kill it. MC Doomie currently does not have Eternal Warrior, and Gargantuans are automatically immune to Instant Death. Doomie only devolves if it goes unfed for a full turn.

I'm currently reluctant to give MC Doomie EW, as it's already got a good enough T to avoid it from high Str, and it feels inappropriate to me to give it a resistance to ID weapons far in excess of, say, the Swarmlord. It already has 3++, making it way more survivable against ID than any other Tyranid MC. What do others think?

jy2 wrote:Also, the testing multiple times within 6" and 12" can get confusing, especially in Apoc where there could easily be 10+ units within range. Having to keep track of all those units and how many times they have rolled can get fairly complex (as well as time consuming). My suggestion to simplify it would be this: -2 LD instead of testing twice and -4 LD instead of testing 3 times.

Agreed.

jy2 wrote:Also, I recommend increasing the range of Cataclysm - maybe 36" for MC Doom and 48" for GC Doom.

I'm not sure about this, on account of the potential for Doomie to land on an objective, hoover up everybody nearby, and spend the rest of the battle bombarding a distant objective/firebase. The increasing size of the template (and Doomie's base) both gives it marginal increased range, but more importantly makes it far more accurate and more likely to harvest 10W. 48" plus 10" blast means Doomie could sit out of range of a Lascannon firebase and target the conscript meatshield to hit the heavy weapons without fear of retaliation. It can also move 13-18" and then shoot, further improving its effective range beyond that of the basic form.

Once it's reached GC stage, it's virtually impossible to assault it with anything short of a War Machine. The only other option is to isolate it and shoot it. Making it able to out-shoot almost anything that isn't long-range artillery makes it too versatile for my liking; Lascannons should be able to fire the first shot IMO. Perhaps we could increase the range by 6" a stage, but even this feels overpowered to me for a unit that perhaps oughtn't have too big a points pricetag on account of its starting vulnerability. What do others think?