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I'm here to reach out for some help because im honestly ruining myself mentally trying to figure out why my nice paintjob keeps going wrong.

I made a post about 3 days ago about my khemri brown scraping off of my chaos black primed plastic model INCREDIBLY easy (like, just dragging the back of your fingernail lightly over a flat surface causes it to drag off in clumps)

I thought it might be because the paint was too thick on the model beneath what I was painting as there was another paint job below it. The problem is, today, I primed a fresh model, painted a coat of Brown on over the black, let it sit for an hour, and when I came back, it was just as granular and chippy. I have no idea what's causing this. I know that it shouldn't be that delicate. Obviously I shouldnt be able to come at it with a knife, but a gentle fingernail should not scrape off a third of a shoulderpad's worth of paint.


Help! :-/

What primer are you using? I don't think chaos black is a primer, it's a paint. You need a purpose made primer.

That's sort of my next step, because you're right, I am just using GW black primer. Even so, other models that i've sprayed chaos black are not nearly as fragile. It's almost like theres a problem with my khemri brown itself. I really cant win with the stuff, I painted half of the thing unwatered down, just a nice ugly thick coat and it just peeled off in one giant chunk. On the side i watered down 2:1 and painted gently with two light coats, it just chips off. I'm to the point that I've basically crushed a gun drone in my hand out of rage. :(

It is fairly tough on plastic
My BFSP gobbos are "primed" with Chaos Black and they are so far okay.

However as Howard says, it is not really a primer.

Also did you wash the models before painting?
There may still be some mould release agent residue on the plastic which is causing the reaction.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry Jester you posted while I was typing.

So if you are using a GW primer, how long are you waiting for it to dry before applying the Khemri Brown?

Ideally you should wait 24hours for the primer to fully cure.

Unless there is something in the Khemri Brown that dissolves primer then it should not go back through to the plastic.

That's just it. It's not going TO the plastic, just back down to the primer. If i sat here for the next 5 minutes with a fingernail, I could idly reduce my entirely basecoated firewarrior to chaos black undercoat. It comes off in big swatches. I wait about an hour before painting, I've never had a problem painting on a primed model in that kind of time period though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, this particular piece, now that I think about it, was primed a week ago. I've had the issue now with three separate pieces, primed on separate occasions.

Hmmm
curiouser and curiouser

Have you tried another foundation paint Jester?
Might be worth putting some other foundation or even ordinary Citadel paint on the model's base if that has primer on and seeing how that reacts.
Could be that for some reason you have a fugitive pot of Khemri Brown.

If they don't work then there could be a problem with the primer (which seems less likely)

This sounds like an issue with the Khemri brown. Try the paint on a none primed model (spare parts etc) and see if you have the same issue. If the issue reoccurs then the problem is with the paint. I have had it happen before (soap/washing up liquid I believe from my water jar) You paint may have a foreign contaminant that is causing it not to cure and dry properly.

you know what it might be? I watered down my paint in the pot per a tutorial on MiniWarGamer. I added 4mL of distilled water (out of my brita filter) to the pot to make it about 2.5:1 for better coating. The glass that I put the water in, or the babydropper that i measured the liquid in might have done something to bork with the consistency.

Not sure that would be enough to contaminate

How well do you stir, note STIR not shake the paint Jester?

Foundation paintes particularly have a lot of sepeartion and settling of the pigment and filler. If you are shaking the pot you may be mixing the medium with the water

Also in my experience that sounds quite a thin mix for foundation paint.

thin mix, in what sense? You'd use less water? It may very well be the case as well, which would explain a lot. I may just ditch the couple of foundations that I watered down and get some new ones/start over again.

I also dont stir as much as i shake the living bajesus out of them. I suppose that could be it, if i was basically pulling out just pigment and water and not getting any of the acryl

Make sure you thoroughly wash any figure before you prime in light detergent to clean any mold release, or to give 'grip' to plastic by allowing the detergent to gently 'score' the plastic so the primer can get hold. Again make sure your miniature is really clean before you paint on your base coat. If you use a brush with the GW paints, it's extremely important to paint many light coats to achieve a good bond with the primer. Spraying the paint is always a better idea though.

I use a very fine Gunze primer. If you can get a hold of this stuff it's awesome.

I then spray my base color and then seal it with a thin layer of acrylic floor wax. I move on from there with other colors and before I wash I seal it again. The wash loves a nice shiney smooth surface. After I wash and get it to where I like it, I seal it again by using matte on my figs. At this point I use my metallics (if I haven't done NMM) and then use powders to simulate enviromental effects.

Now, you could stop with the floor wax sealer after step one.

You'd think it'd go on thick, but the layers are really, really fine and extremely durable. The clear acrylic floor wax doesn't yellow over time either.

one of the pieces of advice that I've gotten is to wash the models before painting. Is that as easy as it sounds? Just soak em in some warm water with some dish soap, then rinse them off after a little while and let them dry all the way, or are there soaps not to use, etc.

I usually scrub with an old toothbrush

but enough about my personal hygiene

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:I usually scrub with an old toothbrush

but enough about my personal hygiene

HA!

It takes ages to get all the nooks and crannies without cramping up though.

But yes, this is the proper method.

That definitely sounds like a problem with the paint. If your primer is sticking on just fine, you don't have an issue with needed to clean the plastic.

Try doing a through mixing of your paint to see if that fixes it. I've seen a few GW paints that tend to separate over time.


Also, using tap-water in a Brita is NOT distilled water. It should get most of your impurities out, but it by no means is actual distilled water. I don't have enough experience to know if that makes a difference to the end result, but if you really do need distilled water, pick it up at your local grocery store. It should be available by the gallon for just $1 or so. Or, if you're really cheap, make it yourself. You have to boil water, capture all the steam, and re-condense it. It's complicated, but not as bad as it sounds. Search youtube for help.

I am just about to leave the house so i didnt have time to read all the replies, but i did see about the khemri and thought i would add that you do get some dodgy batches of paint sometimes, i have a few pots of various colours that are totally different consistency to those a friend has. the main 1 was boltgun metal, it was seriously different, but then he pointed out mine was gunmetal and his was boltgun metal hehehe.

It can happen
I once had some matt varnish that was useless.
The customer relations person was surprised I had a can when I read out the code, as somehow a faulty batch slipped through and was distributed.

Earlier today I read advice from Winsor and Newton to use distilled water for thinning their inks. Apparently tap water can cause seperation by breaking the bond between the dye and the medium.
Not saying this is the case but it still maybe a factor. As Grakmar said filtered and distilled ain't the same.

I have not had any issues with tap water, nor did I see any benefits when using ionised water, which is what I believe distilled water is called for car batteries.
But I have been lucky inasmuch as the areas I have lived have had good soft water supplies.
Obviously this may not be the same for you.

Well I want to thank you guys for all the help. Being new really can suck, and you've all made me feel like im not quite as stupid as I feel.

I went down to my local game store and the guy said that it could easily be a problem with the pot, like you guys said. he suggested I not water the paint down in the pot so that I can sniff out the problem better if it continues to present. He also hooked me up with a complimentary can of legit black pirmer, juuuust in case it was a priming issue.


Brushing them with a toothbrush sounds easy enough. I'll use my fiance's, she'll never know >.>.... do you recommend using some dish soap as well though? Or just hot water?

Yes a bit of detergent(dish soap) is necessary to degrease so the primer gets a better bond with the plastic.
Then rinse well as you have been doing.

Just be careful if you have small parts on sprue or model that may come off and go down the plug hole!Not had it happen yet but a couple of close scares!!
Tend to make sure that the plug is in and have a cuple of clean tubs for any parts.

I plan to assemble em first, then give em a scrub. If paint's not sticking well to an area that I can't reach with a toothbrush....nothing else is gonna reach it either, so it seems safe, haha.

You may have over diluted the paint. It will only form a strong layer if there is enough acrylic resin in it.

Try adding a bit of acrylic polymer media to the Khemri Brown.

Before you rush out to buy a bottle of medium, it's worth trying the paint on some other surfaces in case it is a problem with the primer.

Thanks, Kill. I have tested it elsewhere, on models primed in different batches and in different weather (it was 70 last week...40 this week :( )

I'm just not going to be diluting paint in the pot anymore. Learned my lesson and bought myself a palette.