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Thanks for the insight peeps!

Gonna have to practice a bit of self control and hold on until Salute methinks. Just a month and a half to go!

CMoN have moved to preboxed sets for their KS, often in the final retail boxes with KS extras all being packed in a plain brown box it makes packing much easier with less chances of mispacks. Offering extras of individual minis (that aren't already boxed) just makes packing a nightmare for them so they won't be doing it. They have posted several times that there won't be a miniatures only pledge, they are selling a boardgame and all that entails.

I would certainly expect the 6th faction as the same type of add-on and same price. MAYBE a "completionist" pledge with the game and all add-ons, but I kinda doubt it here. They seem to be trying the simplicity angle on this KS.

 Scrub wrote:
Super lovely miniatures! The giant in particular is really, really nice!

Not interested in the game itself so will be leaving this one alone.

Did they ever do a minis only pledge for Zombicide or any other Cmon kickstarters at all?

The Zombicide games were all "100+ minis for $100", and the minis were merely OK-ish 3-D tokens (3/5). Relic Knights was minis-only, and had legitimately good minis. Wrath was also mini-oriented. Dogs of War, etc. were board games-oriented.

For Blood Rage the Monsters are awesome (5/5), while the underlying game itself seems rather clunky and overly-involved. The card draft mini-game mechanic is clever, but slows the game. Basically, Blood Rage is a KS with Monsters / minis that are so good that one would want to get them without dealing with the game itself.

At this point, I am going to sit back and decide at the very end, whether the final collection of minis is worth pledging.

I thought the game looked clunky until I actually watched it being played. It's actually quite fluid and engaging.

Different strokes, I guess.

I watched the Jogando playthrough, and the game itself seemed kinda clunky to me.

Jogando is clunky

 drazz wrote:
I would certainly expect the 6th faction as the same type of add-on and same price. MAYBE a "completionist" pledge with the game and all add-ons, but I kinda doubt it here. They seem to be trying the simplicity angle on this KS.

A get-everything pledge would be nice for completionists, as you say, but it might be hard to price appropriately since CMoN can't be certain how many (addon) stretch goals they'll unlock. They could price it at $300 for example, but the value wouldn't be there until later in the campaign.

And, yes, they seem to be running on limited pledge levels for simplicity's sake which I think is a good move. Addons are sure to complicate it somewhat but they've gotten better at making those manageable from a backer perspective which I'm sure translate to their end.

Hrm... I love that mountain giant...

I haven't pledged yet, but I am probably going to have to make my wife a little angry and pledge before the end. The models are just too awesome in theme and execution.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

The Zombicide games were all "100+ minis for $100", and the minis were merely OK-ish 3-D tokens (3/5). Relic Knights was minis-only, and had legitimately good minis. Wrath was also mini-oriented. Dogs of War, etc. were board games-oriented.

For Blood Rage the Monsters are awesome (5/5), while the underlying game itself seems rather clunky and overly-involved. The card draft mini-game mechanic is clever, but slows the game. Basically, Blood Rage is a KS with Monsters / minis that are so good that one would want to get them without dealing with the game itself.

At this point, I am going to sit back and decide at the very end, whether the final collection of minis is worth pledging.

I dunno, I think Zombicide has quite a bit of detail for just being "3/5" tokens. They're certainly on par with some metal manufacturers' offerings.









I think Blood Rage (and Conan probably, since I think it's the same company making the plastics) will deliver above-standard casts. They greens look detailed and deep enough in relief to warrant good plastics. Most of the Zombicide greens were detailed similarly to the ones we've seen from Blood Rage, and they need that because the plastic molding will remove some of that depth. Another thing I hope they get right is a clean cast, with few noticeable or poorly placed mold lines.

I think they'll be fine for single piece plastics.

~iPaint

Or, from Zombicide Season 2:


Even ignoring the knee pegs, these are *bad* sculpts.

At best, you can say that Zombicide is a mixed bag of sculpts that requires paint to look good. Hence, 3/5.

The BR monsters don't need paint to look awesome.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Or, from Zombicide Season 2:


Even ignoring the knee pegs, these are *bad* sculpts.
.

What makes them "bad?" The fact that you don't like them?

They're fine to me. I've never had a problem with any of the runner models. Hell, I'd say, in particular, the dude in the shorts ripping his chest open is a pretty solid sculpt, considering in that low quality photo you can still see the detail of his teeth and the stripe on his running shorts.

Spoiler from Facebook Odin's Throne



So it looks like there will be 4 or 5 stretch goals for the gods

Loving the Norse Pantheon additions!

At this point, for $75, only the most mean-spirited penny-pinchers will be complaining about 'value' and/or a 'minis only pledge'!

 Alpharius wrote:
Loving the Norse Pantheon additions!

At this point, for $75, only the most mean-spirited penny-pinchers will be complaining about 'value' and/or a 'minis only pledge'!

So, 99% of KS backers?

I have been modeling and gaming for 16 years with games workshop, dust, kingdom death, wwx, battletech, fow, etc.... I have to say that zombicide has miniatures that are more detailed than gw's or dust's (except for gw's lotr stuff). Z's minis are parody characters that clearly look like the actors (and are easily identifiable as such) and are to scale (not warhammer cartoonish). Now painting can make or break the minis so keep that in mind. The zombie minis are also super detailed as others have pointed out. They may be slightly distorted but thats because they are freaking zombies. The pegs are ugly too but they wete made that way because they are single piece minis (pegs are easily removed). I noticed you didnt post pics of the shirtless mohawk zombie who is exceptional.

There is a reason the minis are highly sought after and are worth a pile of cash! But to each their own I guess.

 Alex C wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Loving the Norse Pantheon additions!

At this point, for $75, only the most mean-spirited penny-pinchers will be complaining about 'value' and/or a 'minis only pledge'!

So, 99% of KS backers?

Ha!

So...how many miniatures are in the game now?

And to be super-duper extra 'fair', only count the 'troops' that come in multiples of the same pose as 'one' miniature.

So, just 'unique' sculpts.

Then divide $75 by that number.

Then look at how...silly it is to be complaining about this!

That is, of course, if you (and 'you' here is being used in the general, not specific sense) like the minis - which 'you' must if 'you' want to buy them!

For me, the sculpts are fantastic and the value is already here, and there's still quite a ways to go!

 cincydooley wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Or, from Zombicide Season 2:


Even ignoring the knee pegs, these are *bad* sculpts.
.

What makes them "bad?" The fact that you don't like them?

They're fine to me. I've never had a problem with any of the runner models. Hell, I'd say, in particular, the dude in the shorts ripping his chest open is a pretty solid sculpt, considering in that low quality photo you can still see the detail of his teeth and the stripe on his running shorts.

Look at the girl. First, the anatomy is terrible - the extended left arm and hand is far too long for the body. For a functional body that is supposed to be running, the anatomy has limbs at all sorts of strange angles that flat out don't work in the real world.

For the guy, it's completely ridiculous that he's ripping his chest open mid-stride as a "drive by".

These Zc2 runners are not large, well-sculpted models like what we have in BR. They are unimpressively mediocre sculpts, in a material that isn't particularly paint friendly. Yes, there is detail, but you're not going to convince anybody that it holds a candle to the BR Monsters.

Dude, no one has agreed with you and more than one person has disagreed with you so I think we are not the ones needing convincing. We have just posted our opinions (as you have stated yours) and our opinions seem to agree with the masses on many forums. In fact i have never seen one forum complaining that zombicide sculpts are junk and poorly detailed. I also see you are stuck on those two runners... how about the other runners? The new skinners? The survivor sculpts? Thought so...

Also remember that the argument for natural poses is slightly moot; they are zombies which are not natural. That is like people arguing about the reality of 40k which is a science fiction game and not reality.

The BE sculpts are good (about the same as zombicide imho) but this is apples and oranges. Also remember these are Mcvey sculpts. Mcvey is ultra talented and i own many of his minis but remember how good the sedition wars resins transitioned into plastic....

Thank god the minis will be 1 piece and made in the same plastic as zombicide minis.

 455_PWR wrote:
Dude, no one has agreed with you and more than one person has disagreed with you so I think we are not the ones needing convincing. We have just posted our opinions (as you have stated yours) and our opinions seem to agree with the masses on many forums. In fact i have never seen one forum complaining that zombicide sculpts are junk and poorly detailed. I also see you are stuck on those two runners... how about the other runners? The new skinners? The survivor sculpts? Thought so...

Also remember that the argument for natural poses is slightly moot; they are zombies which are not natural. That is like people arguing about the reality of 40k which is a science fiction game and not reality.

The BE sculpts are good (about the same as zombicide imho) but this is apples and oranges. Also remember these are Mcvey sculpts. Mcvey is ultra talented and i own many of his minis but remember how good the sedition wars resins transitioned into plastic....

Thank god the minis will be 1 piece and made in the same plastic as zombicide minis.

I thought we had established that McVey hadn't done any of the BR sculpts. Hasn't everything that's been shown so far been done by Remy Tremblay or Jason Hendricks?

Correct Mike directed the sculptors but didn't sculpt himself these days he directs rather than sculpts, Remy did the bulk of the human sized minis and Jason the monsters but they are not the only sculptors JAG, Jose Roig, Steve Saunders, Gregory Clavilier, Stephane Simon, Rafal Zelazo and Elfried Perochon are also involved. The Gods and human sized monsters don't look like Remy's work.

Speaking of Jason - Sea Serpent blog - http://monster-zer0.blogspot.ie/2015/03/blood-rage-sea-serpent.html

 455_PWR wrote:
Dude, no one has agreed with you and more than one person has disagreed with you so I think we are not the ones needing convincing.

Dude, the fact is that the BR monsters are demonstrably bigger and better than the Zc minis, in pretty much every way that matters (design, concept, anatomy, materials, etc.). If people don't agree, I don't have to convince them.

Objectively, the female runner is laughably bad - limbs flat out do not go that way, "natural", zombie or otherwise. By Zombicide standards (tokens), within the Zombicide range and context, she may pass muster, and that's fine. Although I do recall a certain amount of consternation on various forums when people received their minis...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:

 Alex C wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Loving the Norse Pantheon additions!

At this point, for $75, only the most mean-spirited penny-pinchers will be complaining about 'value' and/or a 'minis only pledge'!

So, 99% of KS backers?

Ha!

So...how many miniatures are in the game now?

And to be super-duper extra 'fair', only count the 'troops' that come in multiples of the same pose as 'one' miniature.

So, just 'unique' sculpts.

Then divide $75 by that number.

Then look at how...silly it is to be complaining about this!

That is, of course, if you (and 'you' here is being used in the general, not specific sense) like the minis - which 'you' must if 'you' want to buy them!

For me, the sculpts are fantastic and the value is already here, and there's still quite a ways to go!

OK, I'll do the math to save everyone the trouble, and I'll calculate it as KS, retail, and the KS exclusive.

Kickstarter offer
6 +3 +3X Monsters
8 +4 Vikings
= 24 miniatures

$75 pledge
+$10 S&H
= $85 total

$3.54 average per unique model sculpt via KS.


post-KS offer
6 +3 Monsters
8 +4 Vikings
= 21 miniatures

$80 game
-25% discount
= $60 total

$2.86 average per unique model sculpt at retail.


KS exclusives
3X Monsters
0 Vikings
= 3 miniatures

$25 increase

$8 average per KS-exclusive Monster

Loving the minis for this and the rules themselves look really interesting (quite different from most games I play).

I'm in for $1 at the moment and might not be able to swing the $75-$100 for this thing before the end of the month, so being able to up my pledge in the pledge manager would be great... Has anyone heard confirmation whether that'll be possible? Gracias!

 Alpharius wrote:
Loving the Norse Pantheon additions!

At this point, for $75, only the most mean-spirited penny-pinchers will be complaining about 'value' and/or a 'minis only pledge'!

Why you gotta be so hurtful? Look, all I am asking for is to be able to pick and choose all the individual minis I want and pay only $1 each. If they aren't willing to meet me halfway on that, then they are as evil as Baby Hitler. I'm being completely reasonable.


Seriously, though, I'd love to buy a handful of the Viking infantry off someone down the line. For cheap.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Dude, the fact is that the BR monsters are demonstrably bigger and better than the Zc minis, in pretty much every way that matters (design, concept, anatomy, materials, etc.). If people don't agree, I don't have to convince them.

Objectively, the female runner is laughably bad - limbs flat out do not go that way, "natural", zombie or otherwise. By Zombicide standards (tokens), within the Zombicide range and context, she may pass muster, and that's fine. Although I do recall a certain amount of consternation on various forums when people received their minis...

For comparison's sake, there's only size and technical sculpting as objective measurements for the Blood Rage monsters; everything else is purely subjective. For instance, I could say that the Fire Giant is sculpted incredibly nicely in terms of well defined details, crisp lines, natural forms, and attention to smaller details. That is a rather objective observation, and one most people would agree with.

I can also say that the model is completely unrealistic in that nobody runs with their sword held out at a 45 degree angle from their body directly perpendicular to their direction of motion, or the helm would require some form of chin strap to stay on while the giant is moving otherwise it'd bounce around and obscure his vision, or his necklace and helmet would weigh hundreds of pounds if made from a bronze-like metal so why burden yourself with them, etc etc... These are all subjective observations, and rely more on design and conceptualization than technical sculpting of the model.

So, in regards to that, I'd say the only thing valid to compare would be the technical sculpting of the models, which I still maintain that they're all really well-sculpted models given their design decisions. Sure, the S2 female runner is a bit of a weird pose, but I suggest a quick Google search of runners exchanging batons to get an idea of possible poses this miniature comes pretty close to representing. I'd agree that the execution of the pose is pretty poor - her legs are too far out of sync for most natural running positions compared to the other runner sculpts, and her hands are in weird positions for that stride, but at the same time we are assuming she follows normal human behavior to draw these conclusions.

Maybe muscle groups function completely differently once zombified, and this is completely "natural" for a runner zombie in the Zombicide universe. Maybe the BR Fire Giant uses some form of magic or concentration of willpower to overcome the physical impediments his armor, jewelry, and weapon impose on him so he can rampage about like he's wielding a cardboard tube to splat Vikings all over the place. These are all design decisions made in a reality different from ours.

So, I'll say again, I think overall that Zombicide has some of the best sculpts for single piece board game tokens on the market. There are outliers, of course, just like any range of miniatures (the Zombicide Nic Cage in Con Air model, for example, is really meh imo, yet the concept and artwork for him would have led me to believe he'd turn out better). I'd say the BR Volur Witch and Wolfman are fairly lackluster poses (though sculpted quite well, beyond anything I'm capable of doing that's for sure) when compared to some of the other miniatures on offer, but that doesn't inherently make them "bad" miniatures - they're just not as pleasing to me due to a few specific subjective reasons.

"Bad" miniatures, to me, are miniatures I can't tell what's been sculpted where because the detail is really soft or undefined, or have terrible mold lines or mold slip, or were cast in a sub-par material that won't withstand gaming handling if that's what they were designed for.

Also, I'm not sure we can make judgements on the Blood Rage miniatures if they don't actually exist yet in retail form - sure we've seen some test pieces, but until retail boxes are in our hands, there's no 100% guarantee what we have seen so far will make it through into the final models. I'm fairly confident we'll get awesome pieces, though.

~iPaint

The figures are wonderful, and honestly I'd love if they released them separately. I just can't justify another board game so soon after Rum and Bones.

Maybe if it appears in a shop ill get it.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:


For the guy, it's completely ridiculous that he's ripping his chest open mid-stride as a "drive by".

He's a zombie....

They are unimpressively mediocre sculpts, in a material that isn't particularly paint friendly.

You're Right.



It's a shame



The zombiecide figures



don't take paint



very well.

Man I really hope they consider an art book...

~iPaint

You can make all the excuses you want about zombifying and put up all the concealing paint you want. All you are doing is proving that the Zcide minis need paint to look good, as I wrote at the top of the page:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Or, from Zombicide Season 2:


Even ignoring the knee pegs, these are *bad* sculpts.

At best, you can say that Zombicide is a mixed bag of sculpts that requires paint to look good. Hence, 3/5.

The BR monsters don't need paint to look awesome.

The sculpts themselves are not impressive, and none of your posts change that. If the Zc models were really good, we'd have been drooling over how well-executed they were, and begging for minis-only pledges in Zcide.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
You can make all the excuses you want about zombifying and put up all the concealing paint you want. All you are doing is proving that the Zcide minis need paint to look good, as I wrote at the top of the page:

You said they weren't paint friendly. I fairly emphatically evidenced that you're wrong.

The sculpts themselves are not impressive, and none of your posts change that. If the Zc models were really good, we'd have been drooling over how well-executed they were, and begging for minis-only pledges in Zcide.

I have no interest in a minis-only pledge for Blood Rage. And honestly, I think it's wonderful that they won't be doing any kind of minis only pledge.

And Zombicide seems to have plenty of "minis only" boxes for sale that sell quite well.