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Made in ca
Confessor Of Sins





 vipoid wrote:
Chaospling wrote:
What about the added dynamics which come from objectives changing through the battle to another which you can't foresee 100 %? Is that a big loss or wouldn't they be missed?


Well, I certainly wouldn't miss it. To me, it doesn't come across as dynamic so much as schizophrenic.


As someone who was diagnosed with schizophrenia in 2004, I take offense at that remark.
   
Made in se
Glorious Lord of Chaos






The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer

Wikipedia wrote:Schizophrenia is a mental disorder often characterized by abnormal social behavior and failure to recognize what is real.


It should be noted that schizophrenia is not dissociative identity disorder, and I believe that the latter was meant.

I should think of a new signature... In the meantime, have a  
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

 jonolikespie wrote:
I wonder how much better Maelstrom would be if GW put some thought into it and gave each race their own deck, so the IG one would be mostly hold objectives in your deployment zone and only 1 'kill a unit in assault' card that gave a tong of VPs.

...


I agree. The basic idea of Maelstrom is not inherently bad, but GW as so often happens did a half-arsed job of thinking it through so the in-game implementation is pretty crappy.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in ca
Confessor Of Sins





 Ashiraya wrote:
Wikipedia wrote:Schizophrenia is a mental disorder often characterized by abnormal social behavior and failure to recognize what is real.


It should be noted that schizophrenia is not dissociative identity disorder, and I believe that the latter was meant.


I meant it in more of the sense where someone calls a group of people idiots, and then someone else pipes up with, "That's offensive to idiots."

Except instead of idiocy, it's schizophrenia.

But your way was good too. : D
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 Pouncey wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
Chaospling wrote:
What about the added dynamics which come from objectives changing through the battle to another which you can't foresee 100 %? Is that a big loss or wouldn't they be missed?


Well, I certainly wouldn't miss it. To me, it doesn't come across as dynamic so much as schizophrenic.


As someone who was diagnosed with schizophrenia in 2004, I take offense at that remark.


I'm sorry if you found it offensive, but I believe my usage was accurate:

"(in general use) a mentality or approach characterized by inconsistent or contradictory elements."

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in no
Committed Chaos Cult Marine






7th is doing really well where I am. My LFGS is really busy and we're running out of space and terrains some days. Monday game night sees almost 20 players each week, considerably more than before. However, for us I think the upswing is due to better organisation.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




I'm a big Maelstrom fan. Sure it's flawed, but it's a darn sight more interesting then castle in your deployment zone and flat out the skimmer/bike to an objective turn 5.
   
Made in at
Second Story Man





Austria

I guess maelstrom was only an improvement who did not use their own missions which forced the players to move, before.

For me those were a step back but we were playing NovaOpen style missions still the end of 4th edition.

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise 
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




What if only Infantry and maybe Jump Infantry were Scoring units. Wouldn't this reduce much of the negativity from taking an objective in the last turn by a very fast unit?

Andy Chambers wrote:
To me the Chaos Space Marines needed to be characterised as a threat reaching back to the Imperium's past, a threat which had refused to lie down and become part of history. This is in part why the gods of Chaos are less pivotal in Codex Chaos; we felt that the motivations of Chaos Space Marines should remain their own, no matter how debased and vile. Though the corrupted Space Marines of the Traitor Legions make excellent champions for the gods of Chaos, they are not pawns and have their own agendas of vengeance, empire-building vindication or arcane study which gives them purpose. 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

We could even go back to only allowing troops to score.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Virginia

 vipoid wrote:
We could even go back to only allowing troops to score.


Wouldn't affect Eldar too much.

40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty  
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 krodarklorr wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
We could even go back to only allowing troops to score.


Wouldn't affect Eldar too much.


Few rules do...

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in au
Hacking Proxy Mk.1





Australia

Maelstrom and the old scoring on the last turn aren't the only two ways to do things...

There is a middle ground. For example scoring each turn and just tallying the VPs at the end so someone holding them for 4 turns straight ends up with 4 VPs vs the 1 VP the guy who steals the objectives at the last minute gets.

 Fafnir wrote:
Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
 
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws



Sioux Falls, SD

 ChazSexington wrote:
7th is doing really well where I am. My LFGS is really busy and we're running out of space and terrains some days. Monday game night sees almost 20 players each week, considerably more than before. However, for us I think the upswing is due to better organisation.


Monday game nights what kind of monsters play games on the evilest day of the week.

Blood for the bloo... wait no, I meant for Sanguinius!  
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




 jonolikespie wrote:
Maelstrom and the old scoring on the last turn aren't the only two ways to do things...

There is a middle ground. For example scoring each turn and just tallying the VPs at the end so someone holding them for 4 turns straight ends up with 4 VPs vs the 1 VP the guy who steals the objectives at the last minute gets.


Depends what type of game your after

Eternal War promotes static shooty castles, with small mobile units that hide until turn 5
Maelstrom promotes highly mobile lists
Your method promotes durable ob sec lists
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

Bartali wrote:

Eternal War promotes static shooty castles, with small mobile units that hide until turn 5
Maelstrom promotes highly mobile lists


I've yet to see any evidence of this.

I see at least as much movement - if not more - in EW missions.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine




Agreed, shooty castles are a player preference. Those players that like them will apply them to any game, regardless of mission rules.

Maelstrom promotes speed over anything else. So you get this bizarre situation of two armies largely ignoring each other while running in circles.
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
Maelstrom promotes speed over anything else. So you get this bizarre situation of two armies largely ignoring each other while running in circles.


The thing is, I don't actually see much movement in maelstrom games. Or, if I do, it's very one-sided.

One player inevitably gets cards that require him to capture objectives he's already sitting on in his deployment zone, or cast a psychic power, or shoot some enemies to death. All missions that require next to no movement on his part. Often the other player is stuck trying to capture his opponent's objectives, or capture *every* objective.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






I really do like Maelstrom. Outside of the Relic, which barely changes up the normal Eternal War missions, I hate EW. Your objectives are mostly inconsequential for 90% of the game. On Turn 5 or 6 it becomes "Oh crap, run and grab that!" Other than that, it's stand back and fire at your opponent.

Maelstrom, despite it's randomness, is more enjoyable because I find myself having to think and split up my forces beyond "Okay, keep all those units over here, and shoot the other guy." I also find myself actually using the Run moves to get my guys in position or capture an objective. I've even split ICs off to try to get 2 objectives, rather than keep my IC in his bodyshield group.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/25 16:32:33


~1.5k
Successful Trades: Ashrog (1), Iron35 (1), Rathryan (3), Leth (1), Eshm (1), Zeke48 (1), Gorkamorka12345 (1),
Melevolence (2), Ascalam (1), Swanny318, (1) ScootyPuffJunior, (1) LValx (1), Jim Solo (1), xSoulgrinderx (1), Reese (1), Pretre (1) 
   
Made in gb
Worthiest of Warlock Engineers






preston

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:
 ChazSexington wrote:
7th is doing really well where I am. My LFGS is really busy and we're running out of space and terrains some days. Monday game night sees almost 20 players each week, considerably more than before. However, for us I think the upswing is due to better organisation.


Monday game nights what kind of monsters play games on the evilest day of the week.

My entire club does

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/25 16:59:27


Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I usually lose via tabling, so this debate is meaningless to me.
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 vipoid wrote:
Bartali wrote:

Eternal War promotes static shooty castles, with small mobile units that hide until turn 5
Maelstrom promotes highly mobile lists


I've yet to see any evidence of this.

I see at least as much movement - if not more - in EW missions.

I suspect it's going to be much more down to the individual armies and the players than the mission types.

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

 vipoid wrote:
 krodarklorr wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
We could even go back to only allowing troops to score.


Wouldn't affect Eldar too much.


Few rules do...


Windriders should be Fast Attack really.

YMDC = nightmare 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Windriders shouldn't exist, really. Neither should the scatterlaser.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/25 19:45:39


 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

Martel732 wrote:
Windriders shouldn't exist, really. Neither should the scatterlaser.


I don't mind the Scatterlaser existing. I do mind it existing on 27pt Jetbikes.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

Or just lose Relentless on Bikes.

YMDC = nightmare 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




 vipoid wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Windriders shouldn't exist, really. Neither should the scatterlaser.


I don't mind the Scatterlaser existing. I do mind it existing on 27pt Jetbikes.


It's such an obnoxious weapon; especially with hull points. It's been obnoxious since it was introduced.
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Or just lose Relentless on Bikes.


Well, bikes are certainly in dire need of a few wallops with the nerf-bat.

Martel732 wrote:

It's such an obnoxious weapon; especially with hull points. It's been obnoxious since it was introduced.

Isn't it just a multilaser with an extra shot?

In any case, I'd say the problem is more with Hull Points, tbh. It was a badly thought-out rule that made it trivial to glance many vehicles to death, whilst rendering a lot of specialised anti-vehicle weapons virtually worthless.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/11/25 19:53:55


 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential





 Frozocrone wrote:
Or just lose Relentless on Bikes.

+1

Why are Bikes vehicle hybrids in the first place? Jinking 12" moves with Hammer of Wrath that give units +1 Toughness and sometimes +1 armor save isn't enough? They're already superior to Jump packs. Leave the relentless stuff for terminator types.

If they want to be able to assault while firing Rapid Fire weapons then just give them a rule that ignores the effects of Rapid Fire. They shouldn't be steady enough to fire anti-tank missiles while dodging enemy fire and navigating terrain on two-wheel suspension.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/25 19:56:09


It's called a thick skin. The Jersey born have it innately. 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Virginia

 Frozocrone wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
 krodarklorr wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
We could even go back to only allowing troops to score.


Wouldn't affect Eldar too much.


Few rules do...


Windriders should be Fast Attack really.


All of the yes. A whole bucket of yes. Please.

40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty  
   
 
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