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Im just curious what the community thinks is the most competitive warhammer army.I left out Tomb Kings because there getting a new book.

Hands down skaven, answers for everything.

Also some people are funny... Bretonnia and Wood Elves....

Bretonnia and wood elves are amazing if led by an experienced gammer. I have only lost 3 games between both of those armies compared to the 47 bretonnian wins and the 34 wood elf wins. I will say that my usuall competition is sub par but they are still decent players with a good understanding of the game. Those armies just require more finess than your basic Deathstar army.

Most of the times I easily just rock people with my brets is when they come into the game underestimating them.

They are like wow brets, you got balls. Then they realise what they are capable of. I almost made the same mistake against wood elves when I played them.

However you cant sit there and tell people that the armies are in a good place in 8th edition. Sure they remain semi competitive... However they arent close to say, daemons, skaven or WoC.

I don't think Skaven are all that tough to beat in my own experience and I play against really 'Ard Skaven lists against my High Elves.

Good skaven players are really really tough to beat... The just hide their general in a unit of clanrats behind a ton of slave tarpits and rip you apart with shooting, magic and hell pits...

ShivanAngel wrote:Good skaven players are really really tough to beat... The just hide their general in a unit of clanrats behind a ton of slave tarpits and rip you apart with shooting, magic and hell pits...

I don't doubt that.

The list I play against usually consist of 2 HPAs, a doomwheel, warplightning cannon, bell with clanrats, furnace with monks, grey seer, plague priest, warplock engineers, jazells, weapons teams, and some slaves, BSB, Fighty lords, etc. They are usually pretty tough games, but I've come out on top the last two tournaments against our local Skaven player.

My best friend plays a more shooty/magicky skaven list, and he's beat me several times, but I also wasn't running as hard of a list as I run now.

I guess it just depends on your experiences.

I he wants to be really evil, he can run like 150 rats with 2 Grey Seers, and some Warplightning cannons for support. Thats really tough to beat.

I'm shocked at the skaven to daemons votes. In my experience, it's daemons hands down.

I find skaven are very scary in theory, but at least for painted events, nobody's rocking tons of 50-slave units for only 100 points . So I find daemons a lot scarier in practice...

RiTides wrote:I'm shocked at the skaven to daemons votes. In my experience, it's daemons hands down.

I find skaven are very scary in theory, but at least for painted events, nobody's rocking tons of 50-slave units for only 100 points . So I find daemons a lot scarier in practice...

RiTides I will work with you...

After many sessions (at a meager 199.99) you should be able to put the daemons of 7th edition behind you , and focus on 8th!

Haha touche. But still, daemons own around here in 8th. I want to see skaven take their lunch money (as both armies take mine pretty well) but I just haven't yet...

But you're right, there are scars there, and they're still tender (running forest spirits in 7th against daemons? not fun!)

At the prelims at our LGS, one skaven player took 330+ rats. He lost pretty bad in all of his games. I guess panic was an issue in one game and another Skaven player destroyed half his army in another match with plague.

I've usually done well against skaven and daemons with O&G.

My vote would either go to a pure gunline empire, magic-heavy HE, Hydra spam DE or Chosenstar WoC.

So it's more a case of specific builds than armies.

That could be true, jouso- I just feel that daemons in particular have enough options to be really, really nasty without just one specific build. But it's a good point...

Im just tired of losing with my daemons on turn one or two when a cannon or stone thrower lobs the head off of my GD.

They are by no means a soft army, im not trying to make them out to be that way. They are very strong.

However I just feel that skaven do soooo many things well...

100 point slave blocks you can shoot into, I have destroyed the "gutstar" using units of slaves as speadbumps while warpfire throwers ravage their flanks, Warp lightning cannons while random, are still very nasty. Hell pits are about 50-100 points to cheap. The dreaded 13th is, imo, the best super spell in existence right now, not to mention the rest of the lore is pretty nasty. Storm Banner...

They are very competitive in every phase of the game, and with ld 10 most of the time, dont tend to move.

I play daemons, and pulled 1st at our local ard boyz, however. Skaven and Empire are very strong in the local meta.

Skaven has been the hardest match up for me, however once I can get them to break they crumble fast. Their HPA's are not very feared, either high strength or flaming in every unit. Even though flamers usually drop them in 1 volley.

I will say though, that skaven have two glaring weaknesses (only problem is they can be hard to exploit)...

First is if you drop the general you will normally start breaking units, slaves start testing on a 5, clanrats on a 7iirc.

Also, hitting those big blocks in the flank removes their SiN rule, so they are testing on base general leadership, which is a 7, rerollable 7 is no guarantee at all.

Drawfs?

I voted skaven,

because of bad experiences...

*shudders*

I'm surprised no one has voted for Beastmen, yet we have a vote for Ogres...

Not to mention, WoC are third. Really guys?

Beastmen got no benifit from the new rules(aside from the Transformation of Kadon)

ogres got a massive boost, although they are hardly the best.

I'm genuinely surprised that nobody has spoken for Lizardmen, yet. They're fantastic! Just the Slann himself... the big, fat, slimey, dice-generating, miscast-swapping bastard!

jouso wrote:My vote would either go to a pure gunline empire, magic-heavy HE, Hydra spam DE or Chosenstar WoC.

What defines "spam"? It's not like DE can take a bunch of Hydras. I suppose two at a 1500 game would be pretty mean, but two at 2k+ or three at 3k seems pretty reasonable and hardly a situation of spam.

ShivanAngel wrote:Also, hitting those big blocks in the flank removes their SiN rule, so they are testing on base general leadership, which is a 7, rerollable 7 is no guarantee at all.

Are you sure? My understanding of the rule was that SiN still applied, they just don't get the rank bonus to Combat Resolution.

Back on topic, Skaven are just plain rough if ran as competitively as possible (Power scroll seer, double Cannon, bunch of Slaves you can shoot into, survivable BSB, double HPA, etc).

DE can take up to 6 Hydra(they are special IIRC) at 3k

under that, 3s the limit.

I'm assuming Kirbinator was referring to anything under a grand army (people around here sometimes play 2999k to avoid the extra slots being given).

But it's true, anything other than that and you're maxxing out at 3... still scary, though!

IMO, the big 3 of 7th edition (daemons, DE, VC) are still 2/3 there (daemons and DE) along with skaven. Lizardmen and WoC I'd put up there, too, maybe a hair below. But daemons still take the cake for me...

Kirbinator wrote:

jouso wrote:My vote would either go to a pure gunline empire, magic-heavy HE, Hydra spam DE or Chosenstar WoC.

What defines "spam"? It's not like DE can take a bunch of Hydras. I suppose two at a 1500 game would be pretty mean, but two at 2k+ or three at 3k seems pretty reasonable and hardly a situation of spam.

ShivanAngel wrote:Also, hitting those big blocks in the flank removes their SiN rule, so they are testing on base general leadership, which is a 7, rerollable 7 is no guarantee at all.

Are you sure? My understanding of the rule was that SiN still applied, they just don't get the rank bonus to Combat Resolution.

Back on topic, Skaven are just plain rough if ran as competitively as possible (Power scroll seer, double Cannon, bunch of Slaves you can shoot into, survivable BSB, double HPA, etc).

Yes at the bottom for SiN it says If for any reason the skaven lose their rank bonus, they lose their leadership bonus also.

So fleeing rats, rats hit in the flank etc dont get the SiN.

Kirbinator wrote:

jouso wrote:My vote would either go to a pure gunline empire, magic-heavy HE, Hydra spam DE or Chosenstar WoC.

What defines "spam"? It's not like DE can take a bunch of Hydras. I suppose two at a 1500 game would be pretty mean, but two at 2k+ or three at 3k seems pretty reasonable and hardly a situation of spam.

We usually play 1.750 for casual games and one of local DE player loves fielding two hydras.

I hate that as much as the double-steam tank cum gunline empire player at 2.500 league games as I have very, very precious little to counter that as a greenskin.

Grey Templar wrote:DE can take up to 6 Hydra(they are special IIRC) at 3k

Afraid you're remembering wrong. Rare for sure on Hydras.

UNREALPwnage wrote:Bretonnia and wood elves are amazing if led by an experienced gammer. I have only lost 3 games between both of those armies compared to the 47 bretonnian wins and the 34 wood elf wins. I will say that my usuall competition is sub par but they are still decent players with a good understanding of the game. Those armies just require more finess than your basic Deathstar army.

The ability for an experienced "gammer" familiar with a list to win with said list does not make it "most competitive". I respect that you have such an excellent record with those lists. I've done okay with Dwarfs but wouldn't consider them "most competitive" by any stretch of the imagination.

I have Dark Elves edging out Lizards. Dark Elves- hatred, no dice limit when throwing at Occam's, cauldron (any combination of these first three make *any* unit dangerous), crazy cheap core, sacrificial dagger, reverse ward, easy access to flying mounts, flying redirectors, and ah... hydras.

One advantage I have when playing Bretonnia is that most people arent 100% sure how to handle the army. This is mainly due to not having experience playing against it.

This is a HUGE edge that I use to my advantage.

I almost made the same mistake against a wood elf player...

ShivanAngel wrote:One advantage I have when playing Bretonnia is that most people arent 100% sure how to handle the army. This is mainly due to not having experience playing against it.

This is a HUGE edge that I use to my advantage.

I almost made the same mistake against a wood elf player...

Great point, and also one that applies (to a lesser degree) to non standard builds from more common books...

Grey Templar wrote:DE can take up to 6 Hydra(they are special IIRC) at 3k

If Hydra were Special and not Rare I'd never hear the end of my broken army, whether I actually brought 6 of them or not!