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What kind of lore attributes do you think the Chaos Lores should get?

Cheers

Papasmurf

Hmmmm.......

Big Blue I would have something like
- Tzeentch's blessing: If cast on a friendly unit they get to re-roll 1's until next magic phase; if cast on a enemy unit they must re-roll 6's till the casters next magic phase.

Nurgle
- Filth breeds filth: +1 to the casting roll for a unit already effected by a spell from the lore of Nurgal. (Also effect units with MoN?)

Slaanesh
- Whispers in the ear: Any time an enemy unit is effected by a spell from the lore of Slaanesh they must past a leadership check or loose D3 wounds. (As they are driven insane by the whispers of Slaanesh)

Khorne..... Lol he is to angry for fickle magic, tho if he were to get a lore
- Blood-greed: successful cast unit with mark of Khorne roll a D6 and gain the effects till next magic phase.
1-3:nothing
4:extra D6 movement
5:hatred
6:killing blow (or +1A?)

- Kredic

The Tzeentch one is pretty useful; it's always going to come up, and it's always going to be beneficial.

I'd change it to one or the other, and only for some roles.

The Nurgle one, barring the Mark thing, is a worse version of the Fire attribute, so I'd do the Mark thing too.

The Slannesh one seems very situational (low-medium Leadership out of BSB range, high-cost models). I'd probably just make the targets of any hexes or magic missiles, until the end of the WoC player's turn, take any Leadership tests on a -1 (non-cumulative, to prevent double-Hellcannon Slannseh Sorceri-spam).

Tzeentch - what about granting d3 rerolls till the end of the player turn?

nurgle grants +1 tough till the start of next magic phase for unit with MoN

Slaanesh -1 ld sounds good perhaps give it an area effect?

Khorne gets nothing

cheers

Papasmurf

Those are all really good. Tzeentch used to be a spell for Heavens. The original Nurgle one was more creative, and more reasonable. And no; we don't want to pass out Ld penalties in an area whenever someone gets whacked by even a minor Slanneshian cantrip. Just the unit effected seems plenty good enough. Could run a Death-Sorcerer Lord and a Slannesh-Sorcerer for a little Doom and Darkness! action. -4 Ld...

Tzeench I could see as, if cast on friendly models, +1 to their Invuln saves for the remainder of the turn. on enemy models it would make them reroll successful hits in CC.


Nurgle I could see regenerating D3 wounds worth of models or giving 5+ regen.

I dunno...the attributes are usually kind of limited in some way. Multipurpose attributes for an already super flexible army seems a step too far.

I like the idea of growing Nurgle-dudes back, though d3 Warriors/spell is a bit on the scary side. d3 Knight is, I'd imagine, out of the question (max. 1 cavalry model/spell).

I had no idea what this thread was about. WoC and Daemons are both missing a lore. But I'm more concerned about Daemons. So using the book and the Daemon Prince entry which points to the greaters...

Tzeentnch--when casting a spell of from the lore of Tzeenthch, this daemon may not miscast. Though they may still fail to reach the casting total. (I know it sounds a lot, but the Daemon casters are a lot hardier and don't have the crazy lvl 6 kill everything spells.) And it only applies to casting the lore of Tzeentch.

Nurgle--Any enemies who are hit by a Nurgle spell must take toughness test or have their armor reduced by 2 and their regeneration (if any) by 1 for one round.

Slaanesh--Any enemies hit by Slaanesh spells have to make a Leadership save or lose 2 movement and 1 initiative for one round as their senses are bombarded with Slaaneshy-ness.

I didn't want to make them toooo powerful, as Daemons are already pretty competitive.

Cause no miscasts isn't "too" powerful? In general I think they are all too powerful and this was about WoC not DoC (nobody likes you anyway )

cheers

Papasmurf

Not sure if I understand. By "lore", you mean they're both missing a Lore Attribute, right?
I'll agree that Daemons are in more need of a little something-something than Warriors, and that, in the end, they're both solid, at the very least, as-is.

So...Tzeentch Daemons can't Miscast? What about IF? That sort of thing feels like a step back to older 7th edition books; I think GW wanted the potential of Miscasts to be a threat to everyone (except Lord Kroak, but he's terrible anyway).
Maybe any wound caused by a Tzeentch spell forces a Panic test? It comes up often (presumably every time), but isn't likely to do anything in any given moment.

The Nurgle one seems too complicated; maybe it reduces their Initiative or Movement by D3 for a turn or something?

The Slannesh one is by far the worst. Ld tests are all too easy to pass, and the penalty is still relatively minor. I'd give my first suggestion (-1 Ld for one turn to any unit targeted by a direct damage or hex) to Daemons first. Maybe let Warriors...increase S by one and reduce T by one, until the end of turn, whenever affected by an augment, since the warriors are all too ready to cut people up, and to get cut up?

But I'll say again: actually implementing any of this is probably a bad choice. Daemons are good as they are. Warriors are the top-contenders.

I don't think Tzeentch worry about miscasts as much as other wizards. They're much tougher and/or have ways of dealing with it. But the Tz lore are basically all DD spells, with the highest casting value of any spell being 13. That alone makes miscasts not even that common--as the higher level guys are going to get +4 and +2 (twin heads), how often are they going to get a miscast? But you're also not bringing in some game-changing RIP spells or "kill everyone and their mother" level 6's. I think a forced panic test is much rougher. Also, fluff-wise, I just can't see beings who are literally pure magic from the god of magic, messing up magic. It's like Ogres forgetting how to eat.

I like reducing armor on Nurgle. A nurgle-ish rot. And most of his army is Str4 or higher, so it's not godlike.

Slaanesh lore is all about leadership. For good or ill. Most of it makes some modifiers or other. 3 of the 6 have LD aspects and one gives Stupidity which also kind of does.

But again, Daemons are pretty tough, so I don't think their lores, if any, should be that great.
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But some WoCy suggestions. While WoC are top tier, I don't think a lot of people take the WoC lores. So I don't know if it's game-breaking to add a lore ability, it will just make them more likely to be chosen.

Nurgle: if the enemy suffers any wounds from a spell, you may heal one unit for 1 wound within 6" of the caster, including the caster. The same unit may only be healed once per spell phase. As one enemy decays, another regrows. (Not the caster if it's too powerful.)

Tzeentch: May re-roll on the miscast table if a miscast is rolled. The results must be accepted.

Slaanesh: With each successful cast, the wizard and/or the unit the wizard is in, may move D3 per the Remaining Moves rules.

Judging from how powerful they (WoC) are already, why not give them an overall buff (lower casting values?) but give a detrimental lore attribute.

I was thinking "A House Divided...": Whenever a spell from a lore is cast, all units within x in. must take a leadership test on 3d6 if the do not posses the mark of the appropriate god. If it fails the test, they act as if they had failed a stupidity test.
Also, every unit with the Mark of Khorne within x of a Wizard must move d6 in. toward the nearest model (friend or foe). If they end up in base contact, they must attack that model in the Close Combat Phase.
X= total casting value.

Represents of course the fickleness of chaos and the rivalry between the gods, and the followers being able to "smell" a rival god in the winds of magic.

I don't know abbout getting guys back would get nurgle way too powerful.

Maybe give tz an extra power dice for each successful cast ( that only a tz sorcerer could use).

Still lore attributes would be nice.