Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/18 02:09:47
Subject: A Letter to GW
|
 |
Dakka Veteran
|
This is a letter I sent to Games Workshop earlier today, and I feel as though it echoes the sentiments of most of the fans of their wonderful products. I left out the nerd-rage and misinformation running rampant regarding the EU, Capitalism, greed, etc., and stuck solely to the facts and the concerns those facts present. Without further ado...
Dear Sir or Madam:
I am an avid gamer and hobbyist living in America. I also paint miniatures (somewhat) professionally. I love your products. Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 are the gold standard of tabletop gaming. While this warrants a pricing scheme to reflect such a great brand, I fail to understand why you have made recent changes which severely hurt your international markets. Namely Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and my home, the USA.
In recent years I have read the articles and announcements, conversed with employees, and attended events citing the coming of a new multi-component material designed to end the use of metal, as well as hybrid kits for each army. Both of these maneuvers, along with some clever cost-saving initiatives, were designed to pass savings on to the consumer thus making the hobby more accessible for everyone. Certainly these changes have come to pass, but along with the changes were two sets of price increases instead of the savings we were promised.
There's no hiding what has happened here. Games Workshop won't be able to pass this off as a measure which had to be taken in order to cover increased costs of production. Even if the price comes down in the future, it will only bring the tag back in line with what we - the consumer - currently (though sometimes begrudgingly) pay.
Model for model, the prices of all of these games, and those of your competitors, are roughly the same. The quality offered by Games Workshop is unmatched, however; second to none. The main difference between WHFB and 40k, and games offered by other companies such as Malifaux, Warmachine & Hordes, Flames of War, etc., is that these games require a much smaller investment to enjoy. That isn't what I have a problem with, nor is it a problem that you choose to differ from these products by designing a game around large scale battles instead of smaller skirmishes.
My problem, and the problem of other hobbyists who echo my sentiments, is that Games Workshop has performed the following alterations which only further compound the difficulties we face in the days ahead:
1. Designed the game rules, and each army book/codex to strike a balance at games between 1500-1750 points for 40k, and between 2250-3000 points for WHFB. This sets the tone for the remainder of the following issues.
2. Designed new rules sets which favor "hordes" in both games systems. From objective-based missions, to rules benefits for larger units, it's clear that you want the battles larger, and each unit within the battles to also be larger. This requires us to purchase more of the models with cheaper points values in order to be adequately competitive.
3. Lowered the points value of units and individual models within your codex and army books. This change means that more models must be present in order to fill the points requirements of a balanced, or tournament game (see points balances above). This also requires us to purchase more models.
4. Devised hybrid kits which, while superficially convenient, also include fewer models than previous renditions of similar units. Again, this then forces us to purchase more models to fill the points requirements; not just for an army, but even one force organization slot. An example of this would be Hormagaunts. After June 1st, they will effectively cost $30 (US) for 10 models at 6 points apiece. Since no one is stupid enough to play just 10 Hormagaunts, people will have to spend $60, or even $90 just to fill 120-180 points and one Troops requirement. Great, just 1300 points to go...
5. Eliminating the ability of European retailers to offer products and services overseas. This one's a killer. As if it wasn't tough enough for Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, and Americans to enjoy the hobby at a reasonable cost, now we can only get it from homeland retailers who have to pay your ridiculous mark up costs and thus can't afford to offer us such discounts.
6. Price hikes. Like clockwork, another summer brings another unreasonable price increase across the board. At least you aren't trying to fool us by calling them "adjustments" anymore; that was rather insulting to the fan base.
When all of these factors are added together, you have effectively priced half of your market out of the game without good cause or economic necessity to justify the changes. You have lowered the points costs, set rewards for larger units and armies, all while reducing the number of models in a kit and simultaneously increasing the price of said kits. That is brutal, and in one-fell swoop, all together cruel to your loyal customers.
I have defended Games Workshop and their products for more than 15 years now. No matter what changes have been made, I've weathered the storm, offered explanations, and stood for what I believe are the best products in the industry. Now I have nothing more to say in your defense. I have to stop playing and resign only to painting miniatures for others. I will never play Warmachine/Hordes, or any of the other games, but I can now see the appeal. While they too pay $60 for a large model, they only have to buy one of them and it fills out 1/3 of their army. While a box of plastics may cost them $50, they get almost an entire faction that way. If the cost is going to increase, then the requisite number of purchases should be decreased through the rules to compensate. Games Workshop has gone in the opposite direction in fairness, sensibility, and responsibility. Now we are asking for accountability.
While I'm sure this email won't be read at length, and I will likely receive a prepared and automated reply, I owe it to you, the hobbyists, and myself to fully express my concerns in this matter. I sincerely hope that losing one customer does matter to you, because this situation truly saddens me and could spell the end for me and my days as a table top gamer.
Sincerely and Respectfully,
Jason Colbeck
|
My favorite new podcast: https://firstturngaming.podbean.com/
Current Projects: (Oct 24, 2021) Completed Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh, now working on Be'Lakor
CHECK OUT THE GALLERY AND SERVICE OPTIONS!!! |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/18 02:15:36
Subject: A Letter to GW
|
 |
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit
Imperium - Vondolus Prime
|
Wasted effort, unfortunately.
|
All is forgiven if repaid in Traitor's blood. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/18 02:32:24
Subject: A Letter to GW
|
 |
Mutilatin' Mad Dok
|
Intelligent and well written. Most importantly, completely correct.
As a GW supporter I am torn by the current state of affairs, on the one hand, I still support the hobby for a myrad of reasons, and they haven't out priced my range yet, but they are completely logically indefensible. I hope you get a letter back.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/18 02:34:28
Subject: A Letter to GW
|
 |
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit
Imperium - Vondolus Prime
|
I like to think of it this way. With each blunder, GW opens the market to other miniature companys, FORCING GW to market more effectively/competitively.
|
All is forgiven if repaid in Traitor's blood. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/18 03:08:58
Subject: A Letter to GW
|
 |
Dakka Veteran
|
Goddard wrote:I like to think of it this way. With each blunder, GW opens the market to other miniature companys, FORCING GW to market more effectively/competitively.
Usually it's competitive innovation that sparks this, but GW has refused to play by the norms of Capitalism and is instead trying to bully their way to profits and force market hands.
While I imagine the effort will go relatively unnoticed by those at GW, I would hardly call it wasted. It was satisfying to write and thus I am pleased.
|
My favorite new podcast: https://firstturngaming.podbean.com/
Current Projects: (Oct 24, 2021) Completed Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh, now working on Be'Lakor
CHECK OUT THE GALLERY AND SERVICE OPTIONS!!! |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/18 03:12:52
Subject: A Letter to GW
|
 |
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge
|
Send it out as an actual letter. It will have a .005% chance of being read as opposed to a .001% chance of getting read. For serious though, letters tend to do better.
|
Check out my Youtube channel!
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/18 03:16:20
Subject: A Letter to GW
|
 |
Dakka Veteran
|
Brother SRM wrote:Send it out as an actual letter. It will have a .005% chance of being read as opposed to a .001% chance of getting read. For serious though, letters tend to do better.
Thanks for the tip. My response has been overwhelmingly positive across the web.
Thanks again, and I will post a reply if and when it's received.
Read more: http://www.thetyranidhive.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=OtherGamesWorkshopstuff&thread=33627&page=1#ixzz1MfbQTCfo
|
My favorite new podcast: https://firstturngaming.podbean.com/
Current Projects: (Oct 24, 2021) Completed Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh, now working on Be'Lakor
CHECK OUT THE GALLERY AND SERVICE OPTIONS!!! |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/18 04:02:03
Subject: A Letter to GW
|
 |
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant
|
brassangel wrote:Goddard wrote:I like to think of it this way. With each blunder, GW opens the market to other miniature companys, FORCING GW to market more effectively/competitively. Usually it's competitive innovation that sparks this, but GW has refused to play by the norms of Capitalism and is instead trying to bully their way to profits and force market hands. You're absolutely correct, but not for the right reasons. GW has a patent/copyright on their intellectual property, meaning that nobody else can make Warhammer or Warhammer 40,000 miniatures, rules, accessories, etc. without being at risk for being sued for damages. They have a legally granted monopoly, which means that isn't any competition. You can only get Games Workshop models from Games workshop. If copyright protection didn't exist, then other companies could produce miniatures for WFB and 40k miniature ranges with better quality at lower prices, forcing GW to lower prices (or increase quality, support, etc) to remain competitive, or force them out of the miniature making business (or at least in that line of miniatures in which they failed the market test). Also, this is awesome, and I really hope you gain traction with this idea.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/18 04:15:14
"'Finished' is an unfulfilling endeavor that leaves a vast emptiness that can only be filled by the start of another project. I dread the finish." -The_Blackadder
Check out the Table Top Generals Podcast at www.ttgpodcast.podbean.com and on iTunes! |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/18 04:08:49
Subject: A Letter to GW
|
 |
Legendary Master of the Chapter
|
Very Very Well written, Expresses most peoples view. OF course you could get the signatures of 20,000 people. And then GW will probably realize this is bad.
|
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/18 04:21:38
Subject: Re:A Letter to GW
|
 |
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience
On an Express Elevator to Hell!!
|
Don't listen to comments saying this is a wasted effort, because it isn't. While the likes of Kirby and the yes-men who crunch numbers may care only about shareholder dividends, I still believe there is a core of games designers and creators that love the company and what it stands for - the positive parts of GW that you mention in your mail.
Going from the masses of threads across the web (I have never seen anything that has come even close to this level of response) , each sharing similar sentiments, and even with the apologists struck dumb by this latest round of changes, I think there will be a fair few letters winging their way towards GW. This is by far the most eloquently written letter I have read, and sticks to the point (although I might have added a bit in there about the cutting of staff numbers, and question the logic of the resin switch as well).
I hope you don't mind, but I will be using this letter as the template of my own. I advise everyone who feels strongly about this to do the same - letter if possible, but if not write an email. Hell, why not write 2 or 3 and get them countersigned by other hobbyists.
As what could be regarded as hardcore fans, I think we owe it to the company (and ourselves) to at least make an effort. Then, should the company continue on it's present path towards the bowels of a buyout by some Chinese plastic toy company, at least we can say we tried.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/18 04:22:05
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/18 04:41:44
Subject: A Letter to GW
|
 |
Troubled By Non-Compliant Worlds
|
Well written and I hope for only the best, now they only need consider that one speaks for the many and the many need to know why you want them buy less for more.
|
Charlies well spent Paycheck
I apologize in advance for sounding rude, I don't mean to sound that way |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/18 09:53:45
Subject: Re:A Letter to GW
|
 |
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne
|
To save starting a new thread, I'll chuck my letter into the mix in hope that someone else can cast their eye over it (I hope you don't mind OP  )
Gorechild wrote:Dear Sir or Madam
I am writing to you today to voice a few concerns with the announcements and changes that Games Workshop have made in the last few days, but let me start by saying how impressed I have been with the new wave of Dark Eldar releases. I’m astounded by how beautiful the new Scourges and the Talos/Cronos kits are and I’d like to pass on my appreciation to Jes, Phil and the rest of the guys that have worked so hard to re-launch the entire line. The whole project has been done very efficiently and to a level that (in my opinion) completely eclipses everything else Games Workshop have released to date!
I’m glad to hear about the transition to using resin instead metal for your blister pack models, I personally find it a much nicer medium to work with (having owned several Forge World models in my time). My first concern however is the health risk associated with distributing resin models to children; this is due to the harmful effects of resin dust produces then “cleaning up” models to remove mould lines. I can only assume the new Finecast line will not be completely devoid of the minor defects that the metal (and plastic) models have always had. Secondly, by looking at the price lists from other online retailers it appears that this transition will be subject to yet another price rise, despite resin being a notably less expensive material than the metal that has been used up to now. Your metal miniatures have always been notably (and inexplicably) more costly than your already expensive miniatures.
My next major concern is the newly announced (although not announced by yourselves) restrictions on your international distributers. I received an email from the brilliant guys at Maelstrom Games informing me that you are prohibiting them from selling to all EU countries along with many other countries in the southern hemisphere. I have several friends living in Australia that are going to be forced out of the hobby by this decision. Discount retailers that ship to Oz free of charge are the only reason hundreds of people I have met on online war gaming forums (and the several I know personally) can afford to partake in this great hobby. Unless this announcement comes hand in hand with a reduction in the grossly inflated prices (when compared to the UK rrp) in your Australian stores, I fear you will suffer from an extremely significant loss of players and customers in that part of the world. There are several companies that offer excellent (and more fairly priced) fantasy war gaming products (such as Privateer Press and Infinity to name a couple) that many players may defect to as your products become impossibly expensive.
I have played 40k for 12 years now, and would hate to see Games Workshop get into trouble because of the things mentioned in my letter. If you could get back to me and help alleviate my concerns it would be most appreciated.
Regards,
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/18 11:50:55
Subject: Re:A Letter to GW
|
 |
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience
On an Express Elevator to Hell!!
|
Reads well. I think it's always good to start off with some positive points - it marks you as a conscientious and genuine customer, rather than just an internet brat.
I might make more of the change to resin, understanding that the hobby is so youth orientated. A single search for 'resin dust' on google, and most parents will be out of there straight away. Of course, with the caveat that GW have developed some form of new resin that doesn't produce any dust when cut or filed (which I think is unlikely).
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/18 11:57:01
Subject: A Letter to GW
|
 |
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne
|
Thats what I was going for  I was also trying to make it sound like I was genuinly concerned so they didnt write it of as just another random complaint.
Thanks Pacific
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/18 13:06:07
Subject: Re:A Letter to GW
|
 |
Dakka Veteran
|
Superb.
A+
This is what everyone who feels the same should be doing - with a stamped, self-addressed envelope attached if you want to get a reply.
Send copies such as this to the Board, to Jervis & to White Dwarf directly.
No one will respond to hate mail and Brassangel has a great template for others to follow. Whether or not this will change anything I don't know but it's better to voice these thoughts directly to them.
Thanks for that!
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/18 13:15:20
Subject: A Letter to GW
|
 |
Infiltrating Broodlord
The Faye
|
A letter might be improved by suggesting alternative ways to save money.
GW would work very well as a franchise rather than continuing to run their own shops in my opinion
|
We love what we love. Reason does not enter into it. In many ways, unwise love is the truest love. Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket. But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.
Chaos Knights: 2000 PTS
Thousand Sons: 2000 PTS - In Progress
Tyranids: 2000 PTS
Adeptus Mechanicus: 2000 PTS
Adeptus Custodes: 2000 PTS - In Progress |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/19 00:02:35
Subject: A Letter to GW
|
 |
Focused Fire Warrior
australia
|
send it to jevis, he might laugh and right about it in another cat... i mean wd
|
Moonblade cadre 3400 pts
24th Regiment of Tra 1800 pts
Laylith the whites host - High elves 3500 pts
Men of the holy shrine - Bretonnian 3200 pts
Scarsnick;s hoddies -Night gobbos 2100 pts
The guard of the east gate of Mordhiem - 3200pts |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/19 00:55:15
Subject: A Letter to GW
|
 |
Dakka Veteran
|
Brother SRM wrote:Send it out as an actual letter. It will have a .005% chance of being read as opposed to a .001% chance of getting read. For serious though, letters tend to do better.
I will be writing out a hand-written letter this weekend, and it will be revised, edited, and submitted per the suggestions I have received around the web. I will still make it sound genuine, if slightly emotional, but also professional and tempered. I want it to be my (human) voice, while not sounding like someone who's just calling them names or telling them how dumb they are.
Thanks again!
|
My favorite new podcast: https://firstturngaming.podbean.com/
Current Projects: (Oct 24, 2021) Completed Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh, now working on Be'Lakor
CHECK OUT THE GALLERY AND SERVICE OPTIONS!!! |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/19 02:46:06
Subject: A Letter to GW
|
 |
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
|
Excellent letter. All the points are solid, I hope they see this and at least stop and think. Maybe make a petition with this as the head of it? I'd sign in a heartbeat.
|
2000 pts |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/19 06:04:12
Subject: A Letter to GW
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
brassangel wrote:Goddard wrote:I like to think of it this way. With each blunder, GW opens the market to other miniature companys, FORCING GW to market more effectively/competitively.
Usually it's competitive innovation that sparks this, but GW has refused to play by the norms of Capitalism and is instead trying to bully their way to profits and force market hands.
While I imagine the effort will go relatively unnoticed by those at GW, I would hardly call it wasted. It was satisfying to write and thus I am pleased.
that would be because capitalism doesnt actually work the way you're imagining it. It all hinges on an invisible hand that guides priced to and equillibrium that exists for either short periods of time before shifting away again, or simply doesn't exist at all. To be fair, GW is playing the capitalism game very well. It has systematically trade-marked all of its intellectual property so that nobody else can create something else usable in their games. Add to that its 'designer' branding effect, and my oh my, it is hot stuff. Next, you create an economic model, coupled with the branding, that inherently makes the prices climb (what am I talking about? the stores dammit! How much money do you think is wasted on THAT infrastructure? How much rent and employment costs go down the drain there simply as operating cost, selling ONLY their own product?), and then make claims that destiny and the invisible hand drives the equilbrium of the prices.
In that letter, I would have preferred to add the miserable treatment by GW staff, and the waste of product, and inadvisable use of shelf-space (a third of the walls at my local GWS are bare of anything, and they have more GW products they could be putting on there, BloodBowl, Inquisitor, Necromunda, Epic 40k etc (yet I find all of their specialist stuff at my FLGS) and the ridiculously unnecessary iconic space marine which seems to grace every store.
|
15 successful trades as a buyer;
16 successful trades as a seller;
To glimpse the future, you must look to the past and understand it. Names may change, but human behavior repeats itself. Prophetic insight is nothing more than profound hindsight.
It doesn't matter how bloody far the apple falls from the tree. If the apple fell off of a Granny Smith, that apple is going to grow into a Granny bloody Smith. The only difference is whether that apple grows in the shade of the tree it fell from. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/19 22:36:02
Subject: Re:A Letter to GW
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
England
|
Well, unless you have been in a coma for the last year or so, it should come at absolutely NO suprise.
Dear Games Workshop....
Dear Tesco....
Dear British Gas.....
Dear Anglian Water......
Dear BP.......
Dear Hotpoint......
Dear Ford......
Dear Cardburys.....
Dear Coca-Cola.....
Dear Diary..... Maybe i should look at the real planet not the warhammer planets. Then i might realise its actually everything going up, and stop my bitching! Night xx
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/19 22:39:01
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/19 22:40:42
Subject: Re:A Letter to GW
|
 |
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator
|
I can see why they put in the Embargo (I live in the EU, I dont like it either) as they probably arent getting much money from the stores.
The only way to see the embargo being lifted; honestly is to close ALL the EU stores.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/19 22:56:14
Subject: Re:A Letter to GW
|
 |
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
|
Ajroo wrote:
Dear Diary..... Maybe i should look at the real planet not the warhammer planets. Then i might realise its actually everything going up, and stop my bitching! Night xx
Seriously if we all write letters they'll have to take notice.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/21 01:00:57
Subject: Re:A Letter to GW
|
 |
Hardened Veteran Guardsman
|
Well written, and very true. Though I doub't it will be read by anyone who matters at the firm.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/21 01:52:40
Subject: Re:A Letter to GW
|
 |
Noble of the Alter Kindred
United Kingdom
|
Ajroo wrote:Well, unless you have been in a coma for the last year or so, it should come at absolutely NO suprise. Dear Games Workshop.... Dear Tesco.... Dear British Gas..... Dear Anglian Water...... Dear BP....... Dear Hotpoint...... Dear Ford...... Dear Cardburys..... Dear Coca-Cola..... Dear Diary..... Maybe i should look at the real planet not the warhammer planets. Then i might realise its actually everything going up, and stop my bitching! Night xx Not been following the news but the rate of inflation has not hit 20% here in Blighty nor indeed in the USA because at that rate it would be impossible to miss the kerfuffle. This is not just about a single price increase, but a sequence of poor management decisions. The only justification from GW that seems to have been discovered is that it is for no other reason than the annual event of GW raising prices. It also comes on the back of the new Fine Cast line which (please correct me if I am wrong) material cost savings have not been passed on to the consumer, but has actually also increased prices. Which is following on from jolly capers like halving the contents of the Orc Boyz box... for the same price. On top of which they have stopped the discount sellers, thereby hitting the Southern Hemisphere and other markets even harder when they have had the rough end of the stick already. and cetera and cetera You think grown ups don't "bitch" about the cost of living going up? Might be all right for you guys that can shrug off the hikes but for others it potentially means having to make decisions whether or not they can continue participating in a hobby they have invested heavily in and love. No wonder they are bitchin'
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/21 01:55:07
|
|
 |
 |
|