I am scared of the new Blood angels

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**Oshova**

I know other armies do it better. But for a loyalist marine army 5 is pretty awesome. Still thinking about doing a Thousand Sons army with 8 psykers in 2000pts =D

Btw, any ideas on how to make a good Librarian Dreadnought? as there hasn't been anything about a model being released.

I was thinking a furioso base, but don't know about the weapons on it =/

Oshova

**IronfrontAlex**

Sanctjud wrote:2 Farssers.
20 Warlock councils.
3 Warlocks in elites (wraithguard).
6 Warlocks in troops (Guardians).
3 Warlocks in hvy support (Support Weapons).
Grand total of 34...though only 2 really matter .

and i mentioned Aldar becaus of runes of witnessing. i dont care if your take mephiston and a librarian dred, i got psyker swarm :p

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oshava look in the P and M blogs somsone is converting a venerable into it, add a psi hood to that ugly model i guess?

**willydstyle**

The number of "psykers" in an army is completely unimportant.

**FoxPhoenix135**

willydstyle wrote:The number of "psykers" in an army is completely unimportant.

To a power gamer, sure, it is unimportant. To somebody who gives a damn about it for a fluffy reason, it may be important.

**Shas'O Dorian**

IIRC mephiston is T5, no invuln, no EW. So using my 30" Str5 guns I can plug away at his squad, then when it's gone (he has no jump pack so it's long before he enters CC) I just rail gun him, dead. My strategy Vs. BA will be to hole up in a corner teeming with str 5 or higher guns & say "Come get me"

**Sanctjud**

Unless you are rocking it out with Hammer of Witches

...in which case you care about D6 of them

Automatically Appended Next Post:
IIRC he's T6 Shas'O Dorianio!

**Terminus**

Shas'O Dorian wrote:IIRC mephiston is T5, no invuln, no EW. So using my 30" Str5 guns I can plug away at his squad, then when it's gone (he has no jump pack so it's long before he enters CC) I just rail gun him, dead. My strategy Vs. BA will be to hole up in a corner teeming with str 5 or higher guns & say "Come get me"

He's T6 and can't join squads, welcome to two weeks ago.

**Khornatedemon**

and not only that but technically he does have a jump pack with the wings power. Oh and he has fleet. So he WILL be in combat fast.

**Terminus**

If he passes his test, and the opponent doesn't have a psychic hood/rune sword/seer stones/shadow of the warp, yes. But then he can't use his S10 or preferred enemy powers, or fry brains with his sword.

**Khornatedemon**

so unlike most other SC libby's he can only cast 1 power a turn?

**Oshova**

No he can cast 3 . . . Cos he is pure awesome!!! =D

Oshova

**Terminus**

He has no such rule to my recollection, and I just phoned the shop to confirm. His little eyeball power is one he can use without a check or it going against his power limit, but he is otherwise the same as any regular librarian except with three powers instead of two.

**Oshova**

I'm pretty sure that he can cast 3 powers a turn and has access to all BA psychic powers . . . but then I've only been reading these posts for the past week and a bit, and only looked through the codex a few times . . .

Oshova

**willydstyle**

Oshova wrote:I'm pretty sure that he can cast 3 powers a turn and has access to all BA psychic powers . . . but then I've only been reading these posts for the past week and a bit, and only looked through the codex a few times . . .

Oshova

I'm pretty certain that my knowledge gained from hearsay over the internet is more correct than information you got from the book.

**Oshova**

Oh sorry =[ I'm very much mistaken . . . he must be worse than other IC psykers then =p

Any other interesting tactics people have so far?

Oshova

**IronfrontAlex**

yeah, not telling!

**Oshova**

Well let's have a discussion about that . . . lol

Oshova

**Hulksmash**

He has 3 set powers and can use 3 powers a turn. Which means that if he's gonna force weapon someone he has to not use one of the other 3. His "gaze" doesn't count against his psychic powers. He's a brute but costs appropriately

**DegenPaladin**

He has Wings of Sanguines (Jump Pack), The Sword power(gives str 10), and Unleash Rage(Preferred Enemy). So he actually only has 6 attacks on the charge, because he cant take the might of heros power. The fact that hes not an Independent Character is really strange imo. Im not sure but the Honor Guard says that it can be bought for any HQ choice so does this mean that he can be part of the squad? It just says any HQ doesnt specify in anyway.

Honestly though the only thing im disapointed about is that there is no Land Speeder Storm, I just think there very cool.

**IronfrontAlex**

3 in one turn? whahhh?

**dumplingman**

He has Wings of Sanguines (Jump Pack), The Sword power(gives str 10), and Unleash Rage(Preferred Enemy). So he actually only has 6 attacks on the charge, because he cant take the might of heros power. The fact that hes not an Independent Character is really strange imo. Im not sure but the Honor Guard says that it can be bought for any HQ choice so does this mean that he can be part of the squad? It just says any HQ doesnt specify in anyway.

@Paladin, yes an honour guard may be bought for each HQ you take, however, he still can't join them since he isn't an IC. All he does is open the option of purchasing a squad. Similar to honour gaurd and command squads in C:SM. I.E. if you have 2 librarians you can take 2 honor guards but they don't have to join them, as they do not have the retinue rule forcing them to join. That being said you can still just stick him behind or surrounded by a squad to get that early game cover save.

**Terminus**

Honor Guard are available to the Captain and Dante. You can't purchase them for Eclusiarchs or Librarians.

**Ravajaxe**

Hi guys ! Posted this in BA V.3 rumors thread, but it better fits in here. So, paste.

The BA codex arrived in French GW stores too, and staff being nice, this week I got the opportunity to get a glance over it, so I checked some details, to complete what I read on Dakka².

I already knew about fast moving rhinos and their variants, another thing caught my eye. The Furioso Dreadnought, which is really a furious beast for instance. It comes in Elite, as base equipement he has a pair of blood-lightning claws, Strenght : 6. In pairs, they grant an additionnal attack for each wound dealt with success. And this is true : additionnal attacks allow for another round of attacks in case of success too. Its states clearly so on Furioso page. As long as BA player wins, he rolls again !

Today, I have just activated the command runes of an ancient artifact :
my trusted scientific calculator, equipped with 10 memory buffers, yes please !

Doing some mathammer (skip the paragraph in colour if mathammer is not your cup of tea).
I started from the number of attacks in dread's profile (3), then adding the bonus attack if he charges, the average numbers are here :

Each attack will hit 2 of 3 times against nearly everyone, because of Furioso's WS rising to 6. Rerolls of to wound dice end up in 97% wound rate on toughness of 4 or less, and there is no armor save allowed.
sans charge :
initial round : 1.94 kills
round 2 : 1.26
round 3 : 0.82
round 4 : 0.53
I crunched numbers up to 9 rounds, skipping, it's below 0.5 anyway...

with charge :
initial round : 2.59 kills
round 2 : 1.68
round 3 : 1.09
round 4 : 0.71 .
and so on...

Obviously, these are only stupid statistical averages, a serious probabilist approach is needed to obtain wound numbers distribution. I will do it if I'm motivated enough. For the moment, this gives a good overview of this vehicle power. I summed up the rounds by two methods : additionning all these averages up to the 9nth round, or just keeping the numbers rounded up/down to the nearest integer. The final results are the same, here they are :

An average 5 wounds without charging, and of 7 wounds with charge are inflicted to Dreadnought opponent unit !

Now, let's take the problem in reverse order :
If the Furioso Dreadnought had been designed to deal attacks the ordinary way (one bunch of dice) instead of sequentially, how much attacks on his profile is the equivalent ?
In fact, this corresponds to a profile with Attacks = D6+4 and a special rule granting :
Furioso Dreadnought gains D6 attacks while charging instead of one !

All this goodness with a frontal AV of 13 and a Basilisk cost only !
I feel this is monstruous !!

**sourclams**

Mephiston can cast 3 powers per turn. He has 3 powers plus force weapon.

**FoxPhoenix135**

Ravajaxe wrote:Hi guys ! Posted this in BA V.3 rumors thread, but it better fits in here. So, paste.

The BA codex arrived in French GW stores too, and staff being nice, this week I got the opportunity to get a glance over it, so I checked some details, to complete what I read on Dakka².

I already knew about fast moving rhinos and their variants, another thing caught my eye. The Furioso Dreadnought, which is really a furious beast for instance. It comes in Elite, as base equipement he has a pair of blood-lightning claws, Strenght : 6. In pairs, they grant an additionnal attack for each wound dealt with success. And this is true : additionnal attacks allow for another round of attacks in case of success too. Its states clearly so on Furioso page. As long as BA player wins, he rolls again !

Today, I have just activated the command runes of an ancient artifact :
my trusted scientific calculator, equipped with 10 memory buffers, yes please !
Doing some mathammer (skip the paragraph in colour if mathammer is not your cup of tea).
I started from the number of attacks in dread's profile (3), then adding the bonus attack if he charges, the average numbers are here :

Each attack will hit 2 of 3 times against nearly everyone, because of Furioso's WS rising to 6. Rerolls of to wound dice end up in 97% wound rate on toughness of 4 or less, and there is no armor save allowed.
sans charge :
initial round : 1.94 kills
round 2 : 1.26
round 3 : 0.82
round 4 : 0.53
I crunched numbers up to 9 rounds, skipping, it's below 0.5 anyway...

with charge :
initial round : 2.59 kills
round 2 : 1.68
round 3 : 1.09
round 4 : 0.71 .
and so on...

Obviously, these are only stupid statistical averages, a serious probabilist approach is needed to obtain wound numbers distribution. I will do it if I'm motivated enough. For the moment, this gives a good overview of this vehicle power. I summed up the rounds by two methods : additionning all these averages up to the 9nth round, or just keeping the numbers rounded up/down to the nearest integer. The final results are the same, here they are :

An average 5 wounds without charging, and of 7 wounds with charge are inflicted to Dreadnought opponent unit !

Now, let's take the problem in reverse order :
If the Furioso Dreadnought had been designed to deal attacks the ordinary way (one bunch of dice) instead of sequentially, how much attacks on his profile is the equivalent ?
In fact, this corresponds to a profile with Attacks = D6+4 and a special rule granting :
Furioso Dreadnought gains D6 attacks while charging instead of one !

All this goodness with a frontal AV of 13 and a Basilisk cost only !
I feel this is monstruous !!

Did you seriously cut and paste this from the BA rumor thread just to increase your post count? Sad.

**Terminus**

You don't get additional rounds of combat, WTF, I don't know what crazy French nonsense that codex has printed, but you gain an additional attack for every unsaved wound, not an entire new stack of attacks "if you win".

**rdlb**

I think I will be taking Mephiston just in case I get to go first in Dawn of War.

Plop my one HQ in the middle of the board. Give him a Tac squad in a Rhino to hide behind when you decide to keep everything in reserve, then... Kerplowwy!!

If someone else already said this, then I'm saying it too...

**Fetterkey**

Terminus wrote:You don't get additional rounds of combat, WTF, I don't know what crazy French nonsense that codex has printed, but you gain an additional attack for every unsaved wound, not an entire new stack of attacks "if you win".

The stats are right, even if the explanation is weird. You get one extra attack for every unsaved wound, including wounds dealt by bonus attacks.

**Grey Templar**

Does that mean he could potentially have unlimited attacks? sort of like the Supa-Gattla on a Stompa?

I wonder if the rules won't be that he only gets an extra attack for each one of the original attacks he has. That would make a little more sense, he would only get twice as many attacks at the most, and not be too OP.

**Terminus**

The book has no such limitation, so yes, a Blood Talon dreadnought could chew through an entire Space Marine squad before they got to swing. The only thing limiting it is the attack roll, so it's a good thing Furioso Librarians can't take blood talons, because talons + preferred enemy = everyone dead everywhere.