Dark Eldar Rules Discussion

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**Kroothawk**

Another tidbit on the two missing new HS units, by Jonathan =I=, confirmed by Frgt/10:

Razorwing Fighter
Flyer.

Voidraven Bomber
Flyer. It is armour 11 with duel strength 9 Ap 2 dark lances, can move 36 inches, fire all weapons when moving 12, can drop a strength 8 bomb along its flight path. Costs as much as Rhino plus Ravager

The lighter Talos is called Cronos.

**Just Dave**

Sidstyler wrote:
I think that it is one of the few times that I've seen GW take other parts of the fanbase into account when releasing a new product.

Except GW have been catering to fluffy gamers for years.

Rightly so IMHO. I'd personally rather have everything fluffy than competitive. I'm looking at you Sanguinor.

**Sidstyler**

Why can't it be both?

Oh, right, it's IMPOSSIBLE and it's stupid to even TRY!

**Just Dave**

I agree, both would be good. But if you could have one or the other...

**puma713**

Sidstyler wrote:Why can't it be both?

Oh, right, it's IMPOSSIBLE and it's stupid to even TRY!

If that is directed at me, then you're implying something I didn't say. I said trying to balance each and every unit is impossible, because by the nature of a strategy, point-based system, some units are going to fall by the wayside. It -is- impossible to make every unit as good as the next. That's not a matter of fluff. Fluff doesn't even come into the equation.

**Just Dave**

Update on Lelith that I haven't seen before, off the GW website:

Games-Workshop wrote: With Weapon Skill 9 and four attacks which ignore armour saves, plus an extra one for each point her weapon skill is higher than her foe's, Lelith can murder entire squads.

DAMN! That's like one uber hand-bag slap!

**Sidstyler**

Just Dave wrote:I agree, both would be good. But if you could have one or the other...

I'd rather have competitive, since "fluffy" models usually never leave the shelf. Don't like spending all that money on toys I never get to play with.

**BloodThirSTAR**

Harlequins charging out of an open topped vehicle will be competitive.

**Just Dave**

except so far they are very unlikely to be allowed to use transports. If they can then yes, that would be good. However at the current time it's highly doubted they can.

**puma713**

Interesting that Harlequins are not listed under the Elite section of the Dark Eldar army dropdown on GW.com. Even though most of the things are pre-order (save the Talos and the Haemonculi), I would think they'd still be added.

**wuestenfux**

Kroothawk wrote:Another tidbit on the two missing new HS units, by Jonathan =I=, confirmed by Frgt/10:

Razorwing Fighter
Flyer.

Voidraven Bomber
Flyer. It is armour 11 with duel strength 9 Ap 2 dark lances, can move 36 inches, fire all weapons when moving 12, can drop a strength 8 bomb along its flight path. Costs as much as Rhino plus Ravager

The lighter Talos is called Cronos.

I'm confused that flyers entered the DE codex.
No other race has flyers on the regular GW basis.
Flyer entered only via FW.

**Scottywan82**

wuestenfux wrote:
Kroothawk wrote:Another tidbit on the two missing new HS units, by Jonathan =I=, confirmed by Frgt/10:

Razorwing Fighter
Flyer.

Voidraven Bomber
Flyer. It is armour 11 with duel strength 9 Ap 2 dark lances, can move 36 inches, fire all weapons when moving 12, can drop a strength 8 bomb along its flight path. Costs as much as Rhino plus Ravager

The lighter Talos is called Cronos.

I'm confused that flyers entered the DE codex.
No other race has flyers on the regular GW basis.
Flyer entered only via FW.

Well, there's a first time for everything.

**reds8n**

From Wargamer Au, Ta to Mr. Ronin..

Have had a good read through the new codex today and can confirm many things. Grotesques are still in, but are now BRUTAL. Dont think theres a model for them yet but they are ogren sized. They have littler cousins called wracks, which are still pretty decent, but nothing on the S/T5 3W monsters with FNP that grotesques are.

Jetbikes are still FA but get an even bigger turbo boost (36") and have even less armour (5+) on the plus side, they are actually good in combat now with pistol and hand weapon as well as their drugs. They also get to make D3 S4 hits PER JETBIKE on any unit they move over when turbo boosting, and this can be upgraded to D6. On the VERY down side, characters can no longer be mounted on jetbikes.

Scourges are now FA as well and have some awesome gear. They still deep strike and have jump packs, but now come standard with a assault 3 18" splinter weapon and can have heat lances (18" S6 AP1 Lance, Melta) thats right, you can now deep strike a squad with 4 lance/melta weapons!! And they have a 4+ armour save.

Hellions are all sorts of worthwhile now. Their boards have a special shooting attack that is (from memory) S5 AP4 assault 2 and their weapons are funky as well. Best of all, if you charge a unit with an IC in it, on a 2+ when you make your hit and run attack, they take that character with them and fight him on his own next turn!!

They do indeed get a fighter and a bomber, much in the vein on valk/vens but WAY cooler. They have aerial assault rules that mean they can move and fire all their weapons, they can also take a range of missile, my favorite of course being implosion missiles. Small blast, all models touched by it take a characteristics test on their wounds and if they fail it they die. INSTANT DEATH DIE!!! Brutal.

The talos is still in and comes kitted out to be even cooler, but more importantly comes with a smaller cousin, the parasite. Which is pretty decent in combat, great at shooting, and most importantly, if it causes wounds from shooting, gives pain tokens to nearby DE units.

This leads me neatly to pain tokens. If a unit wipes out a non vehicle unit, it gets a pain token. There are 3 effects from having pain tokens, with the 1st one you gain FNP. The 2nd you get gives you furious charge, and the 3rd makes you fearless. These effects are cumulative so can be awesome.

Even better, characters and units combine pain tokens. So a unit with one and a character with one would both count as having 2 if they joined. And Haemonuclus and a couple of other things come with one automatically.

Incubi are indeed now elites and have 2 attacks base, and their place as bodyguards has been taken by the 'Court of the Archon' which is a retinue like an inquisitors. There are many options in there for increasing the poison of your weapons, aliens with FNP and so on and so forth. Great fun.

Yes Wyches and Warriors have 'vamped up' versions that are elites, almost the same but all of them have LD9 and 2A and have options to take more special weapons.

Sadly disintegrators are no longer plasma cannons, they are S5 AP2 Heavy 3. Still nasty, but they were worse. On the plus side, ravagers are now allowed to move 12" and fire all weapons biggrin.gif

There are many MANY cool things you can do to these units but im not going into it all now, this should be more than enough to make people drool enough to start preordering. I know I have biggrin.gif

Cheers all, Ronin

You'll note a few odds and sods ( ie Lilith ) rules on the pre order info too, including weapon options etc etc.

**wuestenfux**

Scottywan82 wrote:
wuestenfux wrote:
Kroothawk wrote:Another tidbit on the two missing new HS units, by Jonathan =I=, confirmed by Frgt/10:

Razorwing Fighter
Flyer.

Voidraven Bomber
Flyer. It is armour 11 with duel strength 9 Ap 2 dark lances, can move 36 inches, fire all weapons when moving 12, can drop a strength 8 bomb along its flight path. Costs as much as Rhino plus Ravager

The lighter Talos is called Cronos.

I'm confused that flyers entered the DE codex.
No other race has flyers on the regular GW basis.
Flyer entered only via FW.

Well, there's a first time for everything.

There seem to be too many competing units in the HS section.
Three Ravagers will eventually be the best choice, unless they can be fielded in squadrons.

**Noisy_Marine**

Can't say I'm happy to see fliers coming into regular games of 40k. The rest sounds pretty cool.

**Scottywan82**

wuestenfux wrote:
There seem to be too many competing units in the HS section.
Three Ravagers will eventually be the best choice, unless they can be fielded in squadrons.

I admire your confidence, but I'm not so certain.

**Farmer**

Can't wait to see Vects new rules, i hope he isn't a very overpriced Archon, i want this guy to be a total monster!

**Sarigar**

Just Dave wrote:except so far they are very unlikely to be allowed to use transports. If they can then yes, that would be good. However at the current time it's highly doubted they can.

Remember with 5th ed, anything can ride in any vehicle. On first turn, just load up the Harlies into an empty Raider and they're set.

The rules posted so far seem very, very interesting. I'm really looking forward to how this army will play out. As far as Grotesques (that are Ogryn) sized but having no current model, how about using those Skaven beasts out of the new Fantasy boxset?

**greenskinned git**

I don't think you can say 3 ravagers will be the best. Since talos could run in 5th I prefered running 3 of them. Running behind a wall of the new grotesques for cover in a heamonculi style list may be a good choice.

Of course until we see rules and points costs, who knows.

**wuestenfux**

Farmer wrote:Can't wait to see Vects new rules, i hope he isn't a very overpriced Archon, i want this guy to be a total monster!

In an RTT last Saturday, my Assault Termies managed to charge Vect.
He died a horrible death.

**H.B.M.C.**

Oooh! Dark Eldar flyers (that we'll never see kits for). Can't wait to (not) see them.

**Luthon1234**

I'm a little worried that we have now little to no horde killing weapons now that the DIssie is essentially gone. All of my ravagers suddenly became useless : [

**Gwar!**

Oh man, this is looking awesome!

Is it bad though the first thing I thought was "I bet they forgot how to tell us how to deal with enemy units with more than 1 weapon skill" for Lilith's rule?

**Luthon1234**

Gwar! wrote:Oh man, this is looking awesome!

Is it bad though the first thing I thought was "I bet they forgot how to tell us how to deal with enemy units with more than 1 weapon skill" for Lilith's rule?

If I'm doing the rule right, she would get 12 attacks when charging fire warriors, 10 attacks when charging ork boys! She seems like she is destined to slay only troops which isn't bad in itself, but even going against a higher WS character like a archon she would still be getting 7 attacks when charging. That's assuming I'm doing that right.

**Farmer**

wuestenfux wrote:
Farmer wrote:Can't wait to see Vects new rules, i hope he isn't a very overpriced Archon, i want this guy to be a total monster!

In an RTT last Saturday, my Assault Termies managed to charge Vect.
He died a horrible death.

I'm talking about the new codex rules for him, not some guy you vsed last week.

**ThePhish**

Luthon1234 wrote:I'm a little worried that we have now little to no horde killing weapons now that the DIssie is essentially gone. All of my ravagers suddenly became useless : [

Horde killers now = incubi with their flamer template weapon and a boat load of power wep attacks.

**Amaya**

I'm not seeing Lelith's rules up on GW US, but I hope what you've posted is true. She should be the best CC SC in the game.

**Gwar!**

Amaya wrote:I'm not seeing Lelith's rules up on GW US, but I hope what you've posted is true. She should be the best CC SC in the game.

It's part of the blurb on the UK site:

**LucasLAD**

Luthon1234 wrote:I'm a little worried that we have now little to no horde killing weapons now that the DIssie is essentially gone. All of my ravagers suddenly became useless : [

Eh? I'll take a 10 man wych squad charging with the +d6 attacks weapon option for horde killing every day. Don't forget that volume of attacks can be VERY anti horde as well. Plus doing a jetbike boost over a gaunt squad would be devestating.

**Amaya**

@ Gwar!, thanks, now I see it. Yep, that is freaking disgusting. Going to be 10/11 attacks vs Marines on the charge. Depends on if they counted 2x CCW bonus in that 4 attacks deal.