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2014/07/20 13:04:35
Subject: WarPrime - new 28mm sci-fi wargame (Kickstarter is live)
agnosto wrote: Looks much better. I'm pretty sure that people will still bug them for scale shots next to GW products even though they specifically tell you the height to eye level.
Yes, because since every human being on the planet interprets and processes information in exactly the same way, nobody could ever have a valid reason for asking to be shown rather than told. That's why it's been proven that the best way to teach children is to treat them like interchangeable nonentities and subject them to rote-learning at a uniform and unchanging pace
Seriously though, asking a company that wants people to give them a hefty chunk of cash essentially on faith to spend five minutes putting a handful of models in a row next to a ruler and snapping a quick picture is hardly monstrously unreasonable.
Right. Much better that they open themselves up to negative interaction with a company that has proven that they have no problem tying small companies up in lengthy and costly legal battles for daring to even mention the two words Space and Marine in the same sentence much less using images of their actual product without permission.
Look, everyone who has played 40k with models from other companies or even considered it knows that 28mm to eye level is space marine size. If someone is unable to imagine an analog between two products of like size, I'm unsure what enjoyment they derive from a game that heavily involves imagining little army mens firing imaginary ordinance at each other. Wargaming does not equal education. Wargames and RPGs involve a great deal of imagination on the part of participants which is most likely why it's a notch hobby and not as ubiquitous ad computer gaming where you can actually see the army mens shooting each other.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
rayphoton wrote: lots of people have put their miniatures next to gw space marines for size comparison with no threat of legal action.
Raging heroes
Dust
Mantic
Shadows of brimstone
I don't think it unreasonable to do comparison shots and its definitely not illegal
IAMNAL so I don't know if it's actionable to do so or not; you're probably right and it's not but that doesn't stop GW from serving up C&D letters as in the case of Spots the Space Marine or claiming in a court of law that they own the rights to skulls, halberds and a host of other common objects and terms. Why open yourself to the hassle? As far as I know, these guys are US based and all of your examples are EU based with the exception of Shadows of Brimstone and they didn't show GW product (at least on the front page where they just showed a comparison shot with a Mantic mini). A C&D gets your Kickstarter shut down in the middle of the pledge period and then you have to relist and hope people come back.
I agree, scale comparisons aren't unreasonable but at least one manufacturer is.
Anyway, I'll not derail the thread further.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
2014/07/20 14:11:43
Subject: WarPrime - new 28mm sci-fi wargame (Kickstarter is live)
but you will need superglue to stick it together and may find an occasional bubble hole that needs a bit of liquid greenstuff to fill in
So, just like Finecast.
I have trollcast minis, and as much as a finecast comparison is an insult to any other casting medium, it's especially insulting to trollcast. It's sturdy and good to work with (it doesn't flop right over in subarctic temperatures), though it can be brittle in especially thin sections like spear shafts. But Ed at Troll Forged cares a lot about quality casting and what he doesn't know about casting minis could be writ on the back of a stamp (in his case, 'an occasional bubble' definitely =/= 'get half a dozen replacements that are all horribly miscast'); and he's put a lot of work into developing his own particular spincast recipe for trollcast, in addition to doing a lot of casting for a lot of other mini businesses. Last I heard, he's still working on it to iron out that brittleness problem.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/07/20 14:17:52
but you will need superglue to stick it together and may find an occasional bubble hole that needs a bit of liquid greenstuff to fill in
So, just like Finecast.
I have trollcast minis, and as much as a finecast comparison is an insult to any other casting medium, it's especially insulting to trollcast. It's sturdy and good to work with (it doesn't flop right over in subarctic temperatures), though it can be brittle in especially thin sections like spear shafts. But Ed at Troll Forged cares a lot about quality casting and what he doesn't know about casting minis could be writ on the back of a stamp (in his case, 'an occasional bubble' definitely =/= 'get half a dozen replacements that are all horribly miscast'); and he's put a lot of work into developing his own particular spincast recipe for trollcast, in addition to doing a lot of casting for a lot of other mini businesses. Last I heard, he's still working on it to iron out that brittleness problem.
Well, that's a very glowing statement about Trollcast that does not hold up to the actual castings that have been made in this material. I'm not saying Trollcast is bad, but I have hundreds of trollcast models and virtually all of them have some sort of substantive bubble, defect, or miscast.
Most are not unusable castings (plenty of folks have soldiered through with finecast and restic models), but the mold cavities by and large did not fill 100% on virtually all of the models. As a result, there are details that are only partially cast, such as skulls without the bottom half, missing weapon pommels, elbows, etc. It wasn't an isolated problem, occuring over dozens of castings from dozens of different molds. Ed Forte considered those castings to be an acceptable level of quality, packed them, and shipped them to the client.
It is what it is, you know, and the sample size in my personal case is rather large. I have heard lots of good things about Ed and Trollcast, and I have seen some lovely castings in the material. But to describe Trollcast castings as having an "occasional bubble" is simply not accurate when it comes to the Red Box Games miniatures the company produced. Those castings are absolutely part of "doging a lot of casting for other mini businesses" and bears mentioning since you brought it up.
Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"
AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."
AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
The red box games casting is over, though, and never to be repeated. Many of those models don't belong and would not come out perfectly in any resin, the features are too small.
I have trollcast models from four different campaigns, and other sculpts come out fine. WarPrime's sculpts have nowhere near the tiny features of RBG models, and should have no problem being done in trollcast (or any resin).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/20 19:50:13
RiTides wrote: The red box games casting is over, though, and never to be repeated. Many of those models don't belong and would not come out perfectly in any resin, the features are too small.
I have trollcast models from four different campaigns, and other sculpts come out fine. WarPrime's sculpts have nowhere near the tiny features of RBG models, and should have no problem being done in trollcast (or any resin).
Sure, except that RBG models come out fine in resin when Valiant casts them. And then there's the fact that Ed took the RBG job, made the molds, delivered those castings, and kept the money. So whatever anyone says, Trollforged bid that job, took it, did all the work except sculpting the models (knowing full well the nature of the RBG line) and delivered objectively less than par quality castings.
Lots of companies are wont to say, "yes but" to prospective customers when the issue of questionable quality results is raised. Doesn't mean those results should be ignored. Just felt I should mention it since the topic came up.
Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"
AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."
AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
2014/07/20 22:05:45
Subject: WarPrime - new 28mm sci-fi wargame (Kickstarter is live)
agnosto wrote: Looks much better. I'm pretty sure that people will still bug them for scale shots next to GW products even though they specifically tell you the height to eye level.
Yes, because since every human being on the planet interprets and processes information in exactly the same way, nobody could ever have a valid reason for asking to be shown rather than told. That's why it's been proven that the best way to teach children is to treat them like interchangeable nonentities and subject them to rote-learning at a uniform and unchanging pace
Seriously though, asking a company that wants people to give them a hefty chunk of cash essentially on faith to spend five minutes putting a handful of models in a row next to a ruler and snapping a quick picture is hardly monstrously unreasonable.
Right. Much better that they open themselves up to negative interaction with a company that has proven that they have no problem tying small companies up in lengthy and costly legal battles for daring to even mention the two words Space and Marine in the same sentence much less using images of their actual product without permission.
Look, everyone who has played 40k with models from other companies or even considered it knows that 28mm to eye level is space marine size. If someone is unable to imagine an analog between two products of like size, I'm unsure what enjoyment they derive from a game that heavily involves imagining little army mens firing imaginary ordinance at each other. Wargaming does not equal education. Wargames and RPGs involve a great deal of imagination on the part of participants which is most likely why it's a notch hobby and not as ubiquitous ad computer gaming where you can actually see the army mens shooting each other.
First, the idea that GW would sue someone for including one of their miniatures in a scale comparison pic is ridiculous, even their overtly litigious legal department aren't that stupid especially after the thumping they took during the Chapterhouse case. Your "point" is further undermined by the fact that a few companies have already done this during KS campaigns or on website blogs, and last time I looked they're still trading away, notably bereft of onerous nuisance lawsuits. GW can prevent you from using images they produce, and they can prevent you from using images of their products to imply an official connection between the products, but even the stingiest and narrowest definitions of fair use prevent them from suing you for taking a picture yourself(which you would own the copyright on) which happens to feature one of their products in it.
Second, your petty attempt to imply people who best process information visually rather than verbally or via written text are lacking in imagination aside; these companies want our money, almost certainly as much of it as they can get, so if they can increase the amount of that money they get by spending five minutes to take a photo, why is that a bad idea again? Other than it offending your sense of propriety that they would be indulging us poor, unimaginative proles of course
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
That's fine, weeble... We can always PM but there's a lot to that story and I'd rather not debate it all in an unrelated thread. Suffice to say I disagree, and we can agree to disagree...
I hope the project launches better this time. I'd like to see the work that should have been done before the last KS get done and then a smooth production and fulfillment process go from there.
Also painting them with photography in mind would probably work well also. The zenithal highlight airbrush technique, followed by gloss varnish and an oil wash and a matte sealer once that's cured almost always photographs beautifully. It's why so many of the more budget/mass production commission painters have adopted the techniques.
Spoiler:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/20 22:58:59
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
2014/07/20 23:12:42
Subject: WarPrime - new 28mm sci-fi wargame (Kickstarter is live)
Right. Much better that they open themselves up to negative interaction with a company that has proven that they have no problem tying small companies up in lengthy and costly legal battles for daring to even mention the two words Space and Marine in the same sentence much less using images of their actual product without permission.
Look, everyone who has played 40k with models from other companies or even considered it knows that 28mm to eye level is space marine size.
There are ways around it - using a silhouette of a Marine or a Cadian has been done. Using comparison shots of figures from other manufacturers...
This project can be sugar-coated as much as they like, this is a bunch of amateur haters that make nothing original and simply want to copy Games-Workshop to make a buck! I'm no GW fan boy, but let's call a spade a spade here.
This "Holly Crusade" of theirs is something that I will certainly not be taking part in, this project in order to succeed needs other creators (professionals preferably) and 6 months additional planning. Not falling back when it is obvious the KS will fail and "regrouping" 3 weeks later playing Mother Teresa like nothing has happened to launch give or take almost everything else shown before! (I will not even be starting on the ruler issue).... Launching September you say? Lol, go figure...
PS. If you scroll down at the bottom of page 10 of this thread, you'll see a whole bunch of mistakes I marked out for these guys. It's really takes effort to fail so fast and so much!
I read your responses, and honestly - they aren't all very relevant. Dripping with bias and assumptions. I don't know where it stems from, but you are entitled to your opinion - just don't assume it carries much weight.
I'd like to see the kickstarter continue. There are some logistical questions that need answering of course, but I don't think imagination or artistic drive is lacking on their part. A good project manager (versed in dealing with injection companies and/or Asian distribution) would work wonders. Even the best of plans can go awry, hence the volatile nature of kickstarters/crowdsourcing in general.
Sirio wrote: This project can be sugar-coated as much as they like, this is a bunch of amateur haters that make nothing original and simply want to copy Games-Workshop to make a buck! I'm no GW fan boy, but let's call a spade a spade here.
This "Holly Crusade" of theirs is something that I will certainly not be taking part in, this project in order to succeed needs other creators (professionals preferably) and 6 months additional planning. Not falling back when it is obvious the KS will fail and "regrouping" 3 weeks later playing Mother Teresa like nothing has happened to launch give or take almost everything else shown before! (I will not even be starting on the ruler issue).... Launching September you say? Lol, go figure...
PS. If you scroll down at the bottom of page 10 of this thread, you'll see a whole bunch of mistakes I marked out for these guys. It's really takes effort to fail so fast and so much!
U mad Bro?
Constructive criticism aside, your making a mountain out of a molehill. On the whole, they found issue with the project, and pulled it before it went over the top in an alternate direction then it was supposed to, Why not just tell them good idea to pull back, before they disappointed ALOT of potential customers?
Issues, Sure they are there, that's why they pulled the project.
Call it a day and move on. Don't lambast them for doing something smart for the greater good of the game project as a whole. Sometimes, you just have to know when to fold them.
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
I read your responses, and honestly - they aren't all very relevant. Really? What would the irrelevant part be? Dripping with bias and assumptions.. Actually I don't see any assumptions at all. All facts that proved me right, like the fact this KS should have never been launched. Few days later -surprise surprise- KS gets cancelled. Wonder why... I don't know where it stems from, I got carried away, you are right, shouldn't have wasted my time but you are entitled to your opinion - just don't assume it carries much weight. OK. Just note down it has proved me right so far.
I'd like to see the kickstarter continue. I think at this point that so would I! Just to be able to say "I told you so" later on I guess but I might even prefer not seeing another KS fail, after a while it tires you out, lol! There are some logistical questions that need answering of course, but I don't think imagination or artistic drive is lacking on their part. A good project manager (versed in dealing with injection companies and/or Asian distribution) would work wonders. I agree. How unfortunate these guys have none. Even the best of plans can go awry, hence the volatile nature of kickstarters/crowdsourcing in general.I agree. And I think you'll agree with me that this KS is not exactly the definition of a "best plan". Quickly and hastily launched, insulting every other company, coming out of nowhere, using a ruler in a legendary wrong way (lol!!!), coming out of the 80's, being the saviour of the gaming community and... oh, the list goes on and on...
U mad Bro? Constructive criticism aside, your making a mountain out of a molehill. On the whole, they found issue with the project, and pulled it before it went over the top in an alternate direction then it was supposed to, Why not just tell them good idea to pull back, before they disappointed ALOT of potential customers?
Issues, Sure they are there, that's why they pulled the project.
Call it a day and move on. Don't lambast them for doing something smart for the greater good of the game project as a whole. Sometimes, you just have to know when to fold them.
+1
I think I'll do that, I was indeed carried away.
RiTides wrote: The red box games casting is over, though, and never to be repeated. Many of those models don't belong and would not come out perfectly in any resin, the features are too small.
I have trollcast models from four different campaigns, and other sculpts come out fine. WarPrime's sculpts have nowhere near the tiny features of RBG models, and should have no problem being done in trollcast (or any resin).
Obviously you haven't seen our resin nor dealt with our Casting Team. I challenge you to speak with any manufacturer to get his/her written permission (in this case Red Box but we accept any mini you like), send us the mini of your choosing and we'll cast it. There is nothing we cannot cast flawlessly.
Just to be clear, I wasn't criticizing Tre's sculpts- I was saying, they are so finely done, that I think they are more suited to metal in some ways, just like Infinity models. Wehrkind, who posts on Dakka, is local to me and fantastic at resin casting, and there are some things (long thin features) that just are better in metal, imo. I've seen him try out all sorts of things in this regard.
So, it's actually a compliment in the sense that Tre's sculpts are so insanely detailed... I would actually say similarly about Roberto Chaudon's sculpts for the Mierce Miniatures agriosavra that I just got. They're resin, but because their features are so tiny I feel like I would have preferred them in metal.
That's what I meant... sorry for any miscommunication. I'll be making an article showing the casts I have in Trollcast from 4 different campaigns, and hopefully that will help illustrate both it's strengths and weaknesses. At the insanely low price point it comes at (particularly compared to hand cast resin) you're not going to have boutique resin quality in every cast, imo... but it holds detail fantastically well and the RBG sculpts I received in it were of great quality, as well as the sculpts from other campaigns. The figure on the top right of the picture I linked to simply has extremely fine features and thus was quite fragile, but the sculpt and cast I received were both excellent.
Sorry if it sounded like I was having a go at Tre- I definitely was not intending to. I was simply saying, his sculpts are really finely-featured, and at the same time, I think trollcast is an excellent material that works well for many things, but like any resin is going to struggle most with really fine features that will be more fragile in resin than in metal simply due to the material properties.
No offense taken RiTides and I do not mean to sound as I am having a go either. Ed has refined his process a LONG way since making my molds 2 years ago and even back then it was more suited to larger bulkier casts anyway as the material itself does not have any weight to help it cast into thin cavities.
Ah, I'm glad and again sorry that I was rather clumsy with expressing what I meant as a more general idea above. I know this was tough for all involved, but in the end I think both Trollforged and RBG are in great positions- RBG about to launch a new line, and Trollforged doing casting for a number of different campaigns. It was a rough road to travel for all but it is fantastic to see everyone coming out fine on the other side!
Sorry if it sounded like I was having a go at Tre- I definitely was not intending to. I was simply saying, his sculpts are really finely-featured, and at the same time, I think trollcast is an excellent material that works well for many things, but like any resin is going to struggle most with really fine features that will be more fragile in resin than in metal simply due to the material properties.
And this is an important property of the Trollcast material to understand.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/23 21:36:28
Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"
AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."
AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
Agreed, weeble! A lot of folks have wondered about trollcast, and while there are pics scattered online I have been intending to make an article up showing both it's strengths and weaknesses, but just hadn't gotten to it yet. So, I'll try to actually get on that hopefully this weekend.
In general, folks are so much more informed about casting and materials than they ever were before- there's obviously been a bit of a backlash about PVC as people found out more about it, and a desire to see more things done in HIPS (high impact polystyrene). However, for most small miniatures companies this is totally impractical, so assuming they don't want to risk PVC due to it's pitfalls, they are left with hand-cast resin, or metal. Trollcast is unique in that it is the only process using spincast resin that I know of currently, and has the potential to bridge that gap between boutique resin and something that can be cheaper and more mass produced. But seeing more information and knowledge about it is something that I think would be very Very good, as while there are a number of companies that are having things made in the material, it hasn't yet seen wide enough release for people to know what to expect.
So, basically stay tuned on this front! I'm wondering now if I can talk Ed into doing a video of some of it, and obviously I'll make my own article with pictures of the casts that I have in the material.
RiTides wrote: Trollcast is unique in that it is the only process using spincast resin...
Just to clarify Trollcast is a spincast plastic. It is a combination of high impact polystyrene and resin(?) but the mix is closer to plastic than resin. That is what makes it less expensive because of the mix. Of course technically plastic is a type of resin but when we say resin and plastic, they tend to mean different things to people in terms of miniatures.
Resin can and is able to be spincast fine but costwise it is still more expensive than metal and produces less miniatures per mold. The vents are also cut slightly different when you create a spincast mold for resin. Depending on the material of your mold, a metal spincast mold can last for about 400 spins before deteriorating. A resin mold would last for about 200 spins before deteriorating. The cost also increases for resin spincasting because any bad results are lost, unlike metal where you can just melt them back down. That is resin though, not Trollcast.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/23 22:18:22
RiTides wrote: Just to be clear, I wasn't criticizing Tre's sculpts- I was saying, they are so finely done, that I think they are more suited to metal in some ways, just like Infinity models. Wehrkind, who posts on Dakka, is local to me and fantastic at resin casting, and there are some things (long thin features) that just are better in metal, imo. I've seen him try out all sorts of things in this regard.
So, it's actually a compliment in the sense that Tre's sculpts are so insanely detailed... I would actually say similarly about Roberto Chaudon's sculpts for the Mierce Miniatures agriosavra that I just got. They're resin, but because their features are so tiny I feel like I would have preferred them in metal.
That's what I meant... sorry for any miscommunication. I'll be making an article showing the casts I have in Trollcast from 4 different campaigns, and hopefully that will help illustrate both it's strengths and weaknesses. At the insanely low price point it comes at (particularly compared to hand cast resin) you're not going to have boutique resin quality in every cast, imo... but it holds detail fantastically well and the RBG sculpts I received in it were of great quality, as well as the sculpts from other campaigns. The figure on the top right of the picture I linked to simply has extremely fine features and thus was quite fragile, but the sculpt and cast I received were both excellent.
Sorry if it sounded like I was having a go at Tre- I definitely was not intending to. I was simply saying, his sculpts are really finely-featured, and at the same time, I think trollcast is an excellent material that works well for many things, but like any resin is going to struggle most with really fine features that will be more fragile in resin than in metal simply due to the material properties.
(OK!) I had gotten it wrong with what you had wrote prior to this, with the above statement you've explained it in full. I don't agree with the properties of endurance for metal vs resin, I've seen metal minis fall and go into a thousand pieces, something that is unlikely to happen with more resilient ultra-quality resin instead. There are other reasons for which some manufacturers still use metal over resin but I'll stop here since this is about Warprime and I wouldn't like to derail the topic. :-)
RiTides wrote: Trollcast is unique in that it is the only process using spincast resin...
Just to clarify Trollcast is a spincast plastic. It is a combination of high impact polystyrene and resin(?) but the mix is closer to plastic than resin. That is what makes it less expensive because of the mix. Of course technically plastic is a type of resin but when we say resin and plastic, they tend to mean different things to people in terms of miniatures.
Resin can and is able to be spincast fine but costwise it is still more expensive than metal and produces less miniatures per mold. The vents are also cut slightly different when you create a spincast mold for resin. Depending on the material of your mold, a metal spincast mold can last for about 400 spins before deteriorating. A resin mold would last for about 200 spins before deteriorating. The cost also increases for resin spincasting because any bad results are lost, unlike metal where you can just melt them back down. That is resin though, not Trollcast.
One limitation with Trollcast, so far as I understand, is that your molds only work with Trollcast, can only be made by Troll Forged, and can only be spun by Troll Forged. No matter what, you are locked into one supplier, ever, unless you use a different material. This carries certain risks in any business.
With metal casting, you can get your molds back, send them to a different service, cast them yourself, etc. Molds normally aren't very expensive though.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/23 22:38:33
Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"
AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."
AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
weeble1000 wrote: One limitation with Trollcast, so far as I understand, is that your molds only work with Trollcast, can only be made by Troll Forged, and can only be spun by Troll Forged. No matter what, you are locked into one supplier, ever, unless you use a different material. This carries certain risks in any business.
With metal casting, you can get your molds back, send them to a different service, cast them yourself, etc. Molds normally aren't very expensive though.
That is pretty much correct. Molds, at least with spincast molds, are usually designed and created to work with one material. You wouldn't use a metal disc mold and spincast resin with it and you wouldn't use a resin disc mold and spin cast metal with it. The same is said for Trollcast since it isn't exclusive and they hold the recipe to the mix, there is not anyone else that could use the mold. Fortunately though it isn't too huge a risk when it comes miniatures though. If they were injection metal molds, that would be different but given the lifespan of a spincast mold you would just have to find a new supplier and material (otherwords produce other miniatures using metal or resin instead of Trollcast).
Eww. Restic. I will never again intentionally buy a product that literally requires time to fix more than making my own sculpt would take.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
agnosto wrote: Eww. Restic. I will never again intentionally buy a product that literally requires time to fix more than making my own sculpt would take.
And I think someone pointed this out to me before so I'll apologize but I don't see a difference. Resin plus plastic is mixed and forced into a mold. I'm an ignorant consumer and when you describe a product that sounds eerily familiar to the material Mantic uses for their crap product, I now take my money elsewhere.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
It's sturdy and good to work with (it doesn't flop right over in subarctic temperatures), though it can be brittle in especially thin sections like spear shafts. But Ed at Troll Forged cares a lot about quality casting and what he doesn't know about casting minis could be writ on the back of a stamp (in his case, 'an occasional bubble' definitely =/= 'get half a dozen replacements that are all horribly miscast'); and he's put a lot of work into developing his own particular spincast recipe for trollcast, in addition to doing a lot of casting for a lot of other mini businesses. Last I heard, he's still working on it to iron out that brittleness problem.
and again sorry that I was rather clumsy with expressing what I meant as a more general idea above. I know this was tough for all involved, but in the end I think both Trollforged and RBG are in great positions- RBG about to launch a new line, and Trollforged doing casting for a number of different campaigns. It was a rough road to travel for all but it is fantastic to see everyone coming out fine on the other side!
hopefully this weekend.
