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 vipoid wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:


With random charge distance, firing their rods is very risky as it can easily put them out of charge-range - thus leaving them exposed in their opponent's turn and preventing them from inflicting any further wounds in the assault phase.

Sure.

I mean, I've used Praetorians before, with a D-lord. They didn't do nearly as much as my Wraiths do. Now, I would rather have Praetorians go toe to toe with Terminators that my Wraiths, but I would rather have Wraiths do just about anything else. Especially going after MCs.

 krodarklorr wrote:
I mean, I've used Praetorians before, with a D-lord. They didn't do nearly as much as my Wraiths do. Now, I would rather have Praetorians go toe to toe with Terminators that my Wraiths, but I would rather have Wraiths do just about anything else. Especially going after MCs.

They could give them a 2+ save or slash their prize. I have tried praetorians with voidblades, they are like really expensive scarabs. Praetorians with staves are really expensive and risky terminator/space marine killers. Which a lord with some bodies can take care of just as well. Maybe wraiths are too good, but I would not field praetorians if I was not doing it to be nice. 40 points for something with i2 and a 3+ save is just too much. Love the models, though.

Really, I think the i2 is something expensive models cannot afford if they are not crazy strong in some area. It is a massive problem for a lot of necron units countered to some degree with the awesomeness of warscythes and mindshackle combined with other expensive goodies. Perhaps if you could put them in a Ghost Ark? Would become more high risk / high reward thing? Expensive hard hitting unit in a sturdy shell that needs to get up close.

 krodarklorr wrote:
I mean, I've used Praetorians before, with a D-lord. They didn't do nearly as much as my Wraiths do. Now, I would rather have Praetorians go toe to toe with Terminators that my Wraiths, but I would rather have Wraiths do just about anything else. Especially going after MCs.

It seems (on paper anyway) that the entropic strike on the void blades would be very effective on MCs.

Anyway, not meaning to derail this further, but it seems to me that Triarch Praetorians and Wraiths are... pretty much exactly the same unit, only Wraiths are better because they are faster.

Very bad game design to be honest.

Ratflinger wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I mean, I've used Praetorians before, with a D-lord. They didn't do nearly as much as my Wraiths do. Now, I would rather have Praetorians go toe to toe with Terminators that my Wraiths, but I would rather have Wraiths do just about anything else. Especially going after MCs.

They could give them a 2+ save or slash their prize. I have tried praetorians with voidblades, they are like really expensive scarabs. Praetorians with staves are really expensive and risky terminator/space marine killers. Which a lord with some bodies can take care of just as well. Maybe wraiths are too good, but I would not field praetorians if I was not doing it to be nice. 40 points for something with i2 and a 3+ save is just too much. Love the models, though.

Really, I think the i2 is something expensive models cannot afford if they are not crazy strong in some area. It is a massive problem for a lot of necron units countered to some degree with the awesomeness of warscythes and mindshackle combined with other expensive goodies. Perhaps if you could put them in a Ghost Ark? Would become more high risk / high reward thing? Expensive hard hitting unit in a sturdy shell that needs to get up close.

I mean, having actual infantry models with a 2+ save would be nice. Or at least the option to pay for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alcibiades wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I mean, I've used Praetorians before, with a D-lord. They didn't do nearly as much as my Wraiths do. Now, I would rather have Praetorians go toe to toe with Terminators that my Wraiths, but I would rather have Wraiths do just about anything else. Especially going after MCs.

It seems (on paper anyway) that the entropic strike on the void blades would be very effective on MCs.

Anyway, not meaning to derail this further, but it seems to me that Triarch Praetorians and Wraiths are... pretty much exactly the same unit, only Wraiths are better because they are faster.

Very bad game design to be honest.

Exactly why, as good Necrons as a whole are right now, the overall codex is very badly balanced internally.

 krodarklorr wrote:
I just wish they would make the Phylactery what it is in the Deathwatch rpg. FNP, and IWND. That essentially what it does in fluff.
But yeah, I still think 30 points is a bit much for a res orb, hence why I don't even use Lord anymore. 35 point model and another 30 point upgrade just to give a unit a res orb. A bit expensive to me.
But, I do like your idea for the Phylactery, let you reroll the EL roll one time. Would be pretty sick.

Just thought of another thing!
Wouldn't it be great to have a 'sniper relic'?
Something with AP2 and Entropic Strike would be a great tool.
Vindicare had the possibility to remove Inv-saves for years, so a chance to remove the armour wouldn't be that overpowered, right?

Kangodo wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I just wish they would make the Phylactery what it is in the Deathwatch rpg. FNP, and IWND. That essentially what it does in fluff.
But yeah, I still think 30 points is a bit much for a res orb, hence why I don't even use Lord anymore. 35 point model and another 30 point upgrade just to give a unit a res orb. A bit expensive to me.
But, I do like your idea for the Phylactery, let you reroll the EL roll one time. Would be pretty sick.

Just thought of another thing!
Wouldn't it be great to have a 'sniper relic'?
Something with AP2 and Entropic Strike would be a great tool.
Vindicare had the possibility to remove Inv-saves for years, so a chance to remove the armour wouldn't be that overpowered, right?

I mean, I guess? If they had a relic of it, they might as well make it a weapon, or have a deathmark-esq HQ or something.

Alcibiades wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
But with a VB+PC, the Praetorian is striking at AP-. His weapons literally have no effect above a regular CCW on 1w models.

I make it that a Praetorian (Void Blade + Particle Caster) kills 0.444 Marines when charging, while a Wraith (whip coils) kills 1.037 marines when charging. That's without working in the fact that the Marine strikes first against the Praetorian and has a chance of killing him.

The wraith is also striking at AP -....

The Wraith has Rending, the Triarch Praetorian does not.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

The Wraith has Rending, the Triarch Praetorian does not.

I thought Void Blades had rending?

Apparently my Necron book is not on the shelf, so someone else will have to check for certain, but I'm pretty sure they're just Entropic.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Apparently my Necron book is not on the shelf, so someone else will have to check for certain, but I'm pretty sure they're just Entropic.

Void blades are rending and entropic.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Apparently my Necron book is not on the shelf, so someone else will have to check for certain, but I'm pretty sure they're just Entropic.

Just checked, they are Entropic and Rending.

So, a Praetorian with voidblades and particle caster has 2 S5 attacks with rending, as opposed to the wraith's 3 S6 rending attacks.

Hm. That does change things slightly, but the Wraith still has more attacks, at higher strength, striking earlier. Why anyone would take a particle caster over whip coils, I do not know (you can't have both, ever).

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Hm. That does change things slightly, but the Wraith still has more attacks, at higher strength, striking earlier. Why anyone would take a particle caster over whip coils, I do not know (you can't have both, ever).

Wraiths are two attacks with one close combat weapon, right? Triarch Praetorians with Voidblades and Particle Casters also have two attacks because they have two close combat weapons.

Whip Coils are good, but people overestimate them a lot because they overlook that the coils only work against enemies in base contact, allowing enemies to prepare for a charge and get their strongest melee models out of B2B range. Also note that they increase the cost for a Wraith by 5 points / model on average.

IMO GW should go the same direction with crons that they did with tyranids.
Which is to buff certain overcosted underwhelming units and increase the cost and reduce overall power of the more abused, take at all cost units and upgrades.
I really dont see any major buffs coming to crons so this can mean only 1 thing ...

I see crons getting points decreases on many models and certain models getting more special rules (lychguard, praetorians, triarch)

I see tesla being reduced in power, Anni barges costing more, and nightscythes costing more.

New LoW will be a 'non necron' robot from the wraith family of friends.

Flayed ones will go down 2 points in cost, and gain scout or move through cover.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Wraiths are two attacks with one close combat weapon, right? Triarch Praetorians with Voidblades and Particle Casters also have two attacks because they have two close combat weapons.

Wraiths are 3 attacks base.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Hm. That does change things slightly, but the Wraith still has more attacks, at higher strength, striking earlier. Why anyone would take a particle caster over whip coils, I do not know (you can't have both, ever).

Wraiths are two attacks with one close combat weapon, right? Triarch Praetorians with Voidblades and Particle Casters also have two attacks because they have two close combat weapons.

Wraiths are three attacks base with no option for a second close combat weapon (they don't have one normally, so if they take a pistol they still only have one CCW).

A small note of interest: Triarch Praetorians are the only non-Imotekh model in the entire codex capable of using a dual-wield load out. The closest after that is Lychguard with sword and board, but because nobody at GW knows how shields work, they don't count.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Hm. That does change things slightly, but the Wraith still has more attacks, at higher strength, striking earlier. Why anyone would take a particle caster over whip coils, I do not know (you can't have both, ever).

Wraiths are two attacks with one close combat weapon, right? Triarch Praetorians with Voidblades and Particle Casters also have two attacks because they have two close combat weapons.

Wraiths have 3 attacks base.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Whip Coils are good, but people overestimate them a lot because they overlook that the coils only work against enemies in base contact, allowing enemies to prepare for a charge and get their strongest melee models out of B2B range. Also note that they increase the cost for a Wraith by 5 points / model on average.

Whip coils are 10 points per model. =P And if you're not putting them on every wraith, well what are you doing, man?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

blaktoof wrote:
I see crons getting points decreases on many models and certain models getting more special rules (lychguard, praetorians, triarch)

I see tesla being reduced in power, Anni barges costing more, and nightscythes costing more.

New LoW will be a 'non necron' robot from the wraith family of friends.

Flayed ones will go down 2 points in cost, and gain scout or move through cover.

1. I agree, more rules or equipment options hopefully.

2. As I've said in previous posts, if Tesla gets weaker AND they raise the cost of things that can take it, no one, I repeat, no one will use them.

3. LoW will probably be Imotehk, just hopefully they make him a bit more intimidating.

3. Even if they did this, I'd consider taking them.

I put whip coils on two out of three wraiths, since that's usually enough to drop the initiative of every model in B2B with any of my squad and lets me hold some back for supporting attacks.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I put whip coils on two out of three wraiths, since that's usually enough to drop the initiative of every model in B2B with any of my squad and lets me hold some back for supporting attacks.

I run four out of six models with whip coils. Usually at least two die before they get in range and even if they let them all make it through, it is difficult to get all wraiths into base contact without moving them as a great lump, making them vulnerable to s8+ blasts and stuff. Whip coils on all of them is usually just a waste of points.

I also do not think the voidblade praetorians are very good at fighting things. Low initiative coupled with a 3+ makes them rarely earn their points. Wraiths for fighting and scarabs for wrecking vehicles seem a lot more attractive to me. Especially if you put in a destroyer lord for the ap1 and mindshackle with the wraiths.

I would love for praetorians and lychguards to become a thing, though.

Ratflinger wrote:


I would love for praetorians and lychguards to become a thing, though.

As would I, as would I.

$50 Multi part Plastic C'Tan Shard box set, similar to demon prince kit.

 adamsouza wrote:
$50 Multi part Plastic C'Tan Shard box set, similar to demon prince kit.

As much as I love both my C'Tan' right now, I have to say I would buy at least 2 of those if they had it. I haven't heard this idea before, very good.

Dark Eldar is almost out, then Blood Angels soon after. God, Necrons will be here in no time.

We are always last or skipped over.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
We are always last or skipped over.

Well we won't be this time. Every dex will get a new one.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
We are always last or skipped over.

Back when the codex came out, they had to make an entire line of plastic models to support it.

Necrons got one of the best flyers in the game, back in 5th edition before anyone else, and was the most future proof codex to date. It's stood well in 5th, 6th, and 7th edition.

Honestly, aside from Warlord traits, a formation or two, and maybe a tweak here and there the Necron Codex isn't really in a screaming need of an update.

 adamsouza wrote:
Back when the codex came out, they had to make an entire line of plastic models to support it.

Not the entire line. The plastic Necron Warriors, Destroyers and the Monolith date back to 2002 and the 3rd edition codex. They did however receive a larger than usual number of plastic kits with their 5th edition codex in 2011.