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2014/10/29 23:29:35
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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curran12 wrote:That assumes an awareness on the part of BTP, Medium, and that is an awareness that I doubt they have. Just think of how far it had to go before they treated tenebre seriously, and even when they did, it was not "we have to fix our mistakes", it was pure PR damage control and unrealistic "solutions".
It was also a considerable amount of victim blaming in the form of resentment that tenebre had taken the issue to the 'court of public opinion' via online videos and posts, despite the long grace period he gave them before doing so and despite the fact that Shawn and co have used those self same methods of communication to advertise and promote for many years.
Shawn wasn't upset about the issue, he was upset about the issue being made public. Reading into it, he doesn't seem to think there is an issue or that what left their studio was anything other than 'level 6' or whatever they call it.
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2014/10/30 03:34:20
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos
Lake Forest, California, South Orange County
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MeanGreenStompa wrote: curran12 wrote:That assumes an awareness on the part of BTP, Medium, and that is an awareness that I doubt they have. Just think of how far it had to go before they treated tenebre seriously, and even when they did, it was not "we have to fix our mistakes", it was pure PR damage control and unrealistic "solutions".
It was also a considerable amount of victim blaming in the form of resentment that tenebre had taken the issue to the 'court of public opinion' via online videos and posts, despite the long grace period he gave them before doing so and despite the fact that Shawn and co have used those self same methods of communication to advertise and promote for many years.
Shawn wasn't upset about the issue, he was upset about the issue being made public. Reading into it, he doesn't seem to think there is an issue or that what left their studio was anything other than 'level 6' or whatever they call it.
In BTP's defense, I'd say those models are all an easy level 6! Assuming of course we're grading from 1-20 with 1 being bare plastic, 10 being high end tabletop, and 20 being competition quality.
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"Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! ... It’s become the promotions department of a toy company." -- Rick Priestly
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2014/10/30 04:15:48
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Oh god, you got borked man... thanks for the warning. BTP always seemed sketchy. The army is okay for a level 1-2 MAX. Not what you payed for, I hope all goes well. You handled this with maturity and bearing judging from your videos.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/30 05:15:18
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2014/10/30 11:19:38
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf
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curran12 wrote:That assumes an awareness on the part of BTP, Medium, and that is an awareness that I doubt they have. Just think of how far it had to go before they treated tenebre seriously, and even when they did, it was not "we have to fix our mistakes", it was pure PR damage control and unrealistic "solutions".
Given how much time Shawn spent on YouTube trying to defend BTP it wouldn't surprise me if they do keep an eye on the forums, though maybe they just haven't noticed this thread yet.
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2014/10/30 12:02:29
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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Machinist Engineer
Chapel Hill, North Carolina
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Looks like they are disabling likes and comments on videos I've watched lately too.
I hope that this finally gets resolved to your satisfaction. The sad thing is, you can look at most studio updates and the crew there are always furiously drybrushing. Then look at a studio update from Den of Imagination where their staff are actually painting. Tremendous difference.
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2014/10/30 12:31:07
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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Flashy Flashgitz
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UPDATE:
Yesterday BTP responded to the BBB complaint stating they did everything as requested and that I am making a false complaint. Their sole offer stands to allow me to return all of my models (that i bought separately before i even knew BTP) and allow them to repaint them again.
The response to the BBB was more thorough and detail oriented than any response or communication I have seen from BTP. They also neglected to tell the BBB how they retracted every offer I accepted.
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2014/10/30 12:49:57
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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Painting Within the Lines
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So do you reckon you'll accept the offer?
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2014/10/30 12:51:05
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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Warning From Magnus? Not Listening!
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I will make sure to stay away from BTP, as well as let all of my friends know as well. Thanks for the heads up, and good luck with all of this!!!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/30 12:51:15
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2014/10/30 12:55:37
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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Flashy Flashgitz
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no? Why would i send them nearly $3000 worth of my models and trust them to paint them correctly a fourth time? That would make me both an idiot and insane.
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2014/10/30 13:03:13
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex
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tenebre wrote:
no? Why would i send them nearly $3000 worth of my models and trust them to paint them correctly a fourth time? That would make me both an idiot and insane.
Good answer.
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2014/10/30 13:08:55
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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Painting Within the Lines
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tenebre wrote:
no? Why would i send them nearly $3000 worth of my models and trust them to paint them correctly a fourth time? That would make me both an idiot and insane.
Hell I'm in 100% agreement
I just know that it must be tiring to keep this up dude, that's all. I repeat what I said about a crowdfunding thing and legal costs though, if you need a helping hand..
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2014/10/30 14:55:11
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Excuse my ignorance, but what is the BBB?
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2014/10/30 14:59:22
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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[DCM]
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Better Business Bureau.
A fairly ineffective 'consumer' protection' agency.
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2014/10/30 16:19:31
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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Never Forget Isstvan!
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FInally saw the first video and man that is some terrible painting. I honestly could of done as well when I first started the hobby and I wasn't a very good painter.
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2014/10/30 17:13:01
Subject: Re:My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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Focused Fire Warrior
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How does the BBB process work? I would think you have a great case since a third of every model is just pink and you didn't specify that in your communication with them
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Saddened on behalf of all the Ultramarines, Salamanders and White Scars players who got their Codex rolled into Codex: Black Templars. |
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2014/10/30 17:18:58
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
The Battle Barge Buffet Line
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I think I've found the problem. I was watching a video yesterday (the red space wolves one?) and Shaun commented on the four step quality control process that the commisions go through with the fourth step being sending the pics to the customer. I suspect they just skipped steps 1-3 with your army! :( They do feel like they're fully in damage control mode as much as they can be without actually mentioning your commision.
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We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus! |
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2014/10/30 17:51:55
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne
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A shame you guys don't really have decent consumer protection there. Mention of the ACCC over here usually causes companies to gak their pants. (And even then the ACCC isn't as able as we'd like it to be).
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2014/10/30 17:54:11
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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[DCM]
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I guessing the next step here is going to have to be legal action, which also means that tenebre is going to have to go dark on this one for a while.
best of luck with whatever course you take, and I do sincerely hope you end up with a conclusion that is to your satisfaction!
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2014/10/30 17:55:15
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne
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Nod. The best of luck to you, mate.
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2014/10/30 17:56:10
Subject: Re:My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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Sslimey Sslyth
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Gorlack wrote:How does the BBB process work? I would think you have a great case since a third of every model is just pink and you didn't specify that in your communication with them
Well, in theory, the BBB is a way for people to check up on the reputation of a company. A person can file a complaint with the BBB against a company, and said company is notified of the complaint (assuming the company is a member of the BBB). The company then has a chance to respond. This can lead to a back-and-forth between the company and the customer, and eventually, the BBB will list whether or not the complaint has been satisfactorily resolved.
That's pretty much all it is. The BBB cannot compel a company to do anything. The only thing the BBB does is provide a somewhat public forum where customers can complain to try to get an issue resolved.
To Tenebre (sp?), I'd suggest retaining an attorney for the amount of money involved, even for a small claims action. Since you'll almost certainly have to file the complaint in the jurisdiction where BTP is located, that would almost certainly be cheaper and easier than trying to handle all the proceedings from out of state. If you can find an attorney in that locality, he could get the ball rolling.
For starters, you could spend as little as $50-$100 to have an attorney send an official demand and intent to sue letter to BTP by certified mail. The letter would outline the grievance, state the demanded redress, and give a date upon which you intend to file suit with the local courts if the demand isn't met.
Having worked in banking/finance/lending for 16 years now, you'd be surprised how effective such an official notice can be in getting a potential defendant to get serious about addressing the issue.
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2014/10/31 04:58:17
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle
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Being a past btp customer this thread does give me an uneasy feeling. It makes me look at what I've had them do and wonder if I could have gotten a better product for what I spent. It's not a good feeling to have and I think I wouldn't have it if i had seen Shawn use this as a chance to really prove they will go all out to satisfy the customer.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/31 04:59:58
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2014/10/31 10:17:04
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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Slippery Scout Biker
AZ
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All its proven is that they will go out of their way to steal from you if they think they can get away with it. The owner isn't a painter, or a hobbyist, or even a WH40K fan. He's just a thief. And not even a petty thief, this is practically grand larceny.
And if you google "Shawn Blue Table Painting" something like this happens every few months. He should probably be in jail.
What kind of doublethink and cognitive dissonance allows this guy to sleep at night?
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"Use what talent you poses, the woods would be very silent if no birds sang except those that sang best." - Henry Van Dyke
Iron Aquilae 3,500 points |
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2014/10/31 16:12:19
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Their whole setup is sketchy, like them trying to sell the Valhalla lodge a few years ago and then suddenly "No we're not selling it, yes we are, no we're not." Over the course of a few videos. The price of that cabin was outrageous might I add. I don't know how this company even affords its costs. I'm also disappointed Miniwargaming supported them through affiliation for a time.
robam45 wrote:All its proven is that they will go out of their way to steal from you if they think they can get away with it. The owner isn't a painter, or a hobbyist, or even a WH40K fan. He's just a thief. And not even a petty thief, this is practically grand larceny.
And if you google "Shawn Blue Table Painting" something like this happens every few months. He should probably be in jail.
What kind of doublethink and cognitive dissonance allows this guy to sleep at night?
QFT and exalted. Tenebre, it was a brave thing to take this to the public, you've opened many people's eyes. You've ensured I won't do business with them, and at one point in time I had considered it.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/31 16:13:46
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2014/10/31 16:36:22
Subject: Re:My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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Daemonic Dreadnought
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Just got this message from Miniwargaming. Food for thought about how BTP manages to keep up it's image.
While I respect everyone's right to endorse whatever company they want, I really think they are off-base doing a review like this when members of the wargaming community are getting ripped off. It's not right.
Hey Vault Member!
I'm going to be making a video endorsing BlueTablePainting in the next couple of weeks, as they have done some fantastic work for us (and many, many others).
I'd love to include some testimonials and case studies from MiniWarGaming Vault members who have used BTP in the past.
If you have used BTP, and have had a good experience with them, please email your experience to matthew@miniwargaming.com.
I realize that some people may have had bad experiences (they do a LOT of jobs every month, so obviously there will be customers who wouldn't be happy with their work), but we're only really interested in the positive experiences for this video.
Please understand that we will only be endorsing them because we fully believe that they are a good company worth giving your business to (if you use painting commission studios).
Thanks!
Matthew (and Dave)
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2014/10/31 16:38:37
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
The best State-Texas
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Interesting timing for this endorsement video.
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2014/10/31 16:41:58
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Quite the timing with my post sir. Just goes one bad apple can ruin a bunch? Time will tell, my thoughts on MWG are neutral as of this time.
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2014/10/31 16:42:34
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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40kenthus
Manchester UK
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MWG are annoying as hell so any endorsement from them can be safely ignored, imfo.
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Member of the "Awesome Wargaming Dudes"
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2014/10/31 16:45:05
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The only thing I liked about them were their battle reps, and those have gone down the latrine.
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2014/10/31 16:51:15
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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Mysterious Techpriest
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Still, there are loads of people out there unaware of BTP practices. Putting a video out there praising them at this stage is a bad, bad move.
One could almost think there is some money involved...
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2014/10/31 16:51:33
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
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Flashy Flashgitz
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hmm so these testimonials are supposed to negate their bad work ? as well as negate their reaction to said work?
Even i never said they "cant" do good work. I have seen past stuff that is good. My experience however was far different.
And their reaction only made it worse.
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