Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
.Mikes. wrote: Holy crap - Trencher's are getting Tough?!?!
They're getting the MK III version of tough - which I think everyone is expecting to get toned down quite a bit.
I'm more excited that the cards all say version 1 - this strongly seems to imply yearly update decks to get errata'd cards and whatnot into the game. That is an excellent idea.
.Mikes. wrote: Holy crap - Trencher's are getting Tough?!?!
They're getting the MK III version of tough - which I think everyone is expecting to get toned down quite a bit.
Ah, OK. Still, even if it's tough only on a six that's still a 17% of not dying when they would otherwise. Plus the RAT boost. I WON'T LET YOU TAKE AWAY MY NEW TRENCHER BUZZ!
The galaxy is littered with the single-planet graveyards of civilisations which made the economically sensible decision not to explore space.
.Mikes. wrote: Ah, OK. Still, even if it's tough only on a six that's still a 17% of not dying when they would otherwise. Plus the RAT boost. I WON'T LET YOU TAKE AWAY MY NEW TRENCHER BUZZ!
I love the new trencher rules. They've got a point reduction, a RAT boost, faster cloud rules (even if they're technically weaker) and tough (whatever that ends up meaning). 1 inch reach on their melee weapons is also pretty cool.
.Mikes. wrote: Holy crap - Trencher's are getting Tough?!?!
They're getting the MK III version of tough - which I think everyone is expecting to get toned down quite a bit.
I'm more excited that the cards all say version 1 - this strongly seems to imply yearly update decks to get errata'd cards and whatnot into the game. That is an excellent idea.
Yearly is a bit much. Lets say if this version lasts for 6 years we can get version 2 on the 3rd year
lord_blackfang wrote: What a sad little article, trying to sell greater granularity of points as a fantastic upgrade when Mk2 sold the exact reverse as a fantastic upgrade.
Both can exist at the same time, when they went from really really granular in MkI (750pts or something) to 50pts in MkII and now its in between. MkI was too granular, and obviously they feel MkII wasn't granular enough. Its not like they're reverting to MkI points.
lord_blackfang wrote: What a sad little article, trying to sell greater granularity of points as a fantastic upgrade when Mk2 sold the exact reverse as a fantastic upgrade.
Both can exist at the same time, when they went from really really granular in MkI (750pts or something) to 50pts in MkII and now its in between. MkI was too granular, and obviously they feel MkII wasn't granular enough. Its not like they're reverting to MkI points.
The theory in MK II was that the rules would be better balanced at each point value, and it wasn't too far off. The strain really showed up in 2pt solos, which are extremely common, and ranged in effectiveness from Kovnik Joe (probably almost a three point piece) to the Gunmage Captain Adept (almost a one point piece). Making them five and three point pieces, respectively, makes them better choices.
Now theme forces can be taken by any caster and the options in them are more open. Plus you can mix and match Gators and Pigs now which makes my minion pact choice much easier!
lord_blackfang wrote: What a sad little article, trying to sell greater granularity of points as a fantastic upgrade when Mk2 sold the exact reverse as a fantastic upgrade.
Almost as if someone's opinion of something changes when presented with more data.
Tell me, what did you think was a fantastic idea 6 years ago?
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
.Mikes. wrote: Holy crap - Trencher's are getting Tough?!?!
They're getting the MK III version of tough - which I think everyone is expecting to get toned down quite a bit.
I'm more excited that the cards all say version 1 - this strongly seems to imply yearly update decks to get errata'd cards and whatnot into the game. That is an excellent idea.
Yearly is a bit much. Lets say if this version lasts for 6 years we can get version 2 on the 3rd year
I didn't mean to imply that ALL the cards or the rules or anything would be updated yearly - just cards that come with mistakes on them or units they decide to tweak. I think once a year is a pretty good pace for those sorts of things - gets everyone back on the same page and wouldn't be too expensive.
** - and having read the insider - I like the idea of the new theme forces - I know when I look at an army in WM/Hordes - I always see it in terms of like "ooh - and all Tharn Circle army would be cool." That said - I don't like the mixing and matching of Mercs and Minions. I'm glad to see Merc contracts gone, as those were confusing and unnecessary. But I would have rather it moved to a minion like package of basically being mini-factions (where the units could be taken by other armies). Again - I'm a fluffer-nutter though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/21 20:04:17
There's a lot of live tweeting going on from the Chain Attack fellas about the latest Primecast episode which touches on each of the factions- a variety of background and gameplay updates.
“It was in lands of the Chi-An where she finally ran him to ground. There she kissed him deeply as he lay dying, and so stole from him his last, agonized breath.
On a delicate chain at her throat, she keeps it with her to this day.”
lord_blackfang wrote: What a sad little article, trying to sell greater granularity of points as a fantastic upgrade when Mk2 sold the exact reverse as a fantastic upgrade.
Almost as if someone's opinion of something changes when presented with more data.
Tell me, what did you think was a fantastic idea 6 years ago?
Also - it's no where near the EXACT reverse - in MK 1 - a single heavy Warjack was 100+ pts alone. In MK 3 100 points will be the size of a standard army.
So they went from WAAAY too much granularity - overcorrected to not enough (which made balancing low point things pretty impossible) and now have settled into (hopefully) a sweet spot in between.
There's a practical upside as well, in that it's pretty obvious when a person is using cards from another edition. Honestly, that's probably reason enough to recalculate the points every edition.
I'm feeling more positive after the latest round of updates and the images of the inflictor/seether sprues.
Power booster being changed to Empower and being able to use it on jacks that have focus is pretty cool. Now a cryx siren can top up a jack that was allocated 1, gained 1 from being in control for a total of 3 focus with the caster only giving up 1.
DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++ Get your own Dakka Code!
"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude
lord_blackfang wrote: What a sad little article, trying to sell greater granularity of points as a fantastic upgrade when Mk2 sold the exact reverse as a fantastic upgrade.
Almost as if someone's opinion of something changes when presented with more data.
Tell me, what did you think was a fantastic idea 6 years ago?
GW updating Codices more often...
Nosebiter wrote: Codex Space Marine is renamed as Codex Counts As Because I Dont Like To Loose And Gw Hates My Army.
Well, I figured out what will determine if I start playing this regularly again, buy a new starter, cards for my existing factions, etc., or if I'm going to sell my existing collection.
No more trap choices, especially when we're talking about the central theme of the game (jacks and beasts). If they can't figure out how to make the difference in power level between units in a given faction smaller, I'm just done. If they fail to make jacks and beasts good and we end up with people just spending their jack points because they have to, I'm just done.
Pretty much everyone I know who used to play but has faded has a shelf full of crap. Marauders and Assault Kommandos and Man O Wars. Crusaders and Knights Exemplar and Guardians. Trenchers and Iron Clads and Hammersmiths. Every fething faction seems to have a good portion of their models look awesome and have cool rules but they just suck next to their obviously stronger brethren.
I'm okay with a slightly worse unit here and a slightly better unit there, but the model pool has become so large that you can effectively build an army with only the good models and it's like you're playing a massive points advantage. And if you just happen to take what seems cool to you and sounds like it would work well together, but it's not the best stuff, your army will just suck compared to the good stuff lists.
I don't know if a company has ever made their points system actually work (Bolt Action and Antares seem close so far) but for me, this is PP's last chance.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/22 10:21:31
MattofWar wrote: Well, I figured out what will determine if I start playing this regularly again, buy a new starter, cards for my existing factions, etc., or if I'm going to sell my existing collection.
No more trap choices, especially when we're talking about the central theme of the game (jacks and beasts). If they can't figure out how to make the difference in power level between units in a given faction smaller, I'm just done. If they fail to make jacks and beasts good and we end up with people just spending their jack points because they have to, I'm just done.
Pretty much everyone I know who used to play but has faded has a shelf full of crap. Marauders and Assault Kommandos and Man O Wars. Crusaders and Knights Exemplar and Guardians. Trenchers and Iron Clads and Hammersmiths. Every fething faction seems to have a good portion of their models look awesome and have cool rules but they just suck next to their obviously stronger brethren.
I'm okay with a slightly worse unit here and a slightly better unit there, but the model pool has become so large that you can effectively build an army with only the good models and it's like you're playing a massive points advantage. And if you just happen to take what seems cool to you and sounds like it would work well together, but it's not the best stuff, your army will just suck compared to the good stuff lists.
I don't know if a company has ever made their points system actually work (Bolt Action and Antares seem close so far) but for me, this is PP's last chance.
I advise you to listen to episode 31 of their podcast called Primecast.
Most of these fears will be nixed hopefully. Whilst we don't know about them in the context of other units (I thought I'd point you to this as you called them out specifically and said units are also called out on this podcast), but Man o Wars, Trenchers, Ironclads and Guardians all got given a massive shot in the arm for this edition.
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
ROF doesn't require you to spend focus for extra shots anymore,
so a Redeemer with ROF 3 gets 3 shots a turn.
Fun!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Archangel spoiler :
"The Archangel is now SPD 7 and is the first gargantuan or colossal to have a rule that allows it to move outside of its normal movement in Deceptively Mobile (I argued really hard that it should be called Insanely Fast, but I was overruled). Deceptively Mobile simply says that at the end of an activation this model did not run or fail a charge it can advance up to 3", then its activation ends. This rule replaced the Archangel's Ride By Attack but I think in the end you'll quickly see it was well worth the trade as this nimble gargantuan effectively gained 4" of potential movement.
Oh and its RAT went up to 6. So it's way more accurate with those d3+1 AOE 3 POW 14 dragon fire shots!
Its animus matches the one it has now post errata. Cost 1 set everything not friendly within 2" on fire."
Automatically Appended Next Post: Per Will Shick:
Morghoul2's feat:
Feat: Blackout
Enemy models currently in Morghoul’s control range and LOS suffer Blind for one round. (A model suffering Blind cannot make ranged or magic attacks, suffers –4 MAT and DEF, and cannot run, charge, or make slam or trample power attacks. It must forfeit either its Normal Movement or Combat Action during its next activation. Blind can be shaken.)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Will on Primecast Post on Forums Because it's Friday (and totally not because the glowering shadow of our forum overlord PPS_Simon is hovering over me with one of Reznik's wracks at the ready) let's talk some numbers!
Much like the Slayer I previewed in Wednesday's Insider, the tried and true Crusader is pretty much the same warjack Protectorate players know and love. Albeit it now has that sweet RNG 1 on its melee weapons. The big thing to consider in the new edition is that this jack comes in at a bargain 10 PC. As many have postulated 10 PC puts it at a cost less than several light warjacks. I don't care how "basic" you may consider the Crusader, when your opponent throws down 3 of them for free with each getting a guaranteed focus a turn they are a force to be reckoned with!
But what about another example I hear you (and not the deep menacing growl of PPS_Simon) say! Well let's look at the Templar. In the new edition the Templar's shield gained a point of POW and, more importantly the Templar now has Shield Guard! And at a PC of 15 it's even slightly cheaper than it was in Mk II.
And for a final point of comparison, the Redeemer is now 11 points (so again slightly cheaper) and, are you ready for it, thanks to the change in how ROF works in the new edition just flat out gets to make three skyhammer shots per activation, no focus required (nevermind that you still have one for free).
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/04/22 21:02:49
DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++ Get your own Dakka Code!
"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude
The super low cost on the very basic jacks is quite good. As is the 15 point Templar with Shield Guard. The Guardian gets a MAT increase and hopefully will get cheaper as well. And the Redeemer just getting all three shots means it can finally do its job without taking half your casters resources for a relatively poor output.
16 minutes in exactly they start looking at the new War Room.
Fafnir wrote: Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
Now theme forces can be taken by any caster and the options in them are more open. Plus you can mix and match Gators and Pigs now which makes my minion pact choice much easier!
Wow that's actually pretty cool. Won't be gaming until the summer but that explanation of how they are developing theme forces is intriguing; always found the current theme force rules unnecessarily restrictive. Really looking forward to picking up the new edition.
A grudge never too old to settle with metal and ire on the funeral pyre of vanquished foe
