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I recetly got my hands on some nice turtle toys just right for a 50mm square base. I immediatly got to thuinking how i could use them and naturally as i lizard player i decided to slap skinks on top

Giant turtles have been used by skinks in the most humid areas of the jungle for a very long time, these slow but strong creatures are easy to control and have been used mainly for transportation of goods, altho never anything urgent. Since these creatures live for a very long time and never stop growing older turtles are even used as ships by more zaelous border patrols. Recently skinks have taken to riding younger turtles to battle where their substantial durability and surprisingly strong beaks have proven quite effective.

__________M_WS_BS_S_T_W_I_A_LD
Giant Turtle 4__3___0_4_5__3_1_3_4 (monstrous beast)
Skink Crew (see lizarmen armybook)
Skink Brave (see lizarmen armybook)

Each turtle has 2 skink crew.
Skink crew equipment: Hand weapon, javelin.
Special rules:
Jungle poisons (skink crew only), AP (turtle only), Water Strider(turtle only), Stupidity(turtle only).
Howdah Crew: From the safe position on the creature's back, the skinks can attack the enemy with little fear of retaliation.
In close combat all attacks are made against the turtle's WS and T. If taken as a mount the character's WS is used.
Amphibious: Such is these creature's swiming ability that they are not hampered by water when fighting.
Units made up of only Giant turtle mounted models retain their ranks when in rivers and can march through them.
Turtle necks: The turtle's long retractable necks give them a reach far greater than that of other mounts.
Altho mounts are usually unable to make supporting attacks giant turtles can.
Armored Shell: A turtle's impresive natural deffence is easilly extended to it's rider(s) via a small howdah.
Models mounted on a giant turtle gain scaly skin (3+).

Giant turtle cavalry is a special choice and costs 50 points/model.
Unit Size 3+.
Options:
The crew can have shields – 10 pts.
Both crew can replace their javelins for blowpies or spears for 5 points (All crew in a unit must have the same gear).
One turtle can upgrade its crew to braves – 16 pts.
One turtle can upgrade its crew to musitians – 8 pts.
One turtle can carry a standard – 16 pts.

A skink chief can purchase a giant turtle (no addittional crew) as a mount – 40 pts.

C&C so i can have some ok rules before i test these in a game
Edit: Spelling and made things easier to read. Also now with corrections.

As monsterous beasts with riders, they are monsterous cav, no?
If so, those things act as T2 from the rider, not T5 from the turtle.

Riders should have shields, and access to spears.
I wouldn't give turtles stupidity.
I have no idea if these are worth the points. They don't hit very hard, are slow, and only have 4+ armor.


I'd give them a hide in the shell rule.
When not charging, they gain +1 armor save in close combat.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:As monsterous beasts with riders, they are monsterous cav, no?
If so, those things act as T2 from the rider, not T5 from the turtle.

Good point extra rule added.

HawaiiMatt wrote:Riders should have shields, and access to spears.

Sadly that is quite uncommon gear among skinks, a chief can have it tho. I'll add shields and a spear option.

HawaiiMatt wrote:I wouldn't give turtles stupidity.

I would, theyre simple and slow, add to that how unnatural combat is to them and i can see why they'd get easily confused on the field.

HawaiiMatt wrote:I have no idea if these are worth the points. They don't hit very hard, are slow, and only have 4+ armor.

Armor ups with shields added, also thre S4 AP attacks don't seem so bad to me. Still upping scaly skin too. I guess low speed is sufficient of a drawback to have them more durable, seeing as they only gain a speed edge on river maps. I'm a bit worried they'll be undercosted tho, don't wanna make the same mistakes GW makes from time to time

HawaiiMatt wrote:I'd give them a hide in the shell rule.
When not charging, they gain +1 armor save in close combat.

Great idea but i'm trying to keep them simple for now, plus 1+ is a bit much.

HoverBoy wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:I'd give them a hide in the shell rule.
When not charging, they gain +1 armor save in close combat.

Great idea but i'm trying to keep them simple for now, plus 1+ is a bit much.

Not 1+, +1.
4+ armor, 3+ when not charging.
With shields, that would be 3+ normally and 2+ when not charging.
On a 40mm base, they're putting out less attacks than saurus, move the same speed, have the same armor, but are stupid, have a harder time getting ranks, and are more expensive on a per-attack/per-rank basis.



-Matt

I read a story one time (I forget what it was called ) where the only creatures that could withstand Dragon fire were these giant turtles because of their shells. It would be cool to see an "Immune to Flaming Attacks" rule but I like what you have here. Seems like they would be fun to convert too.

I think it should just be made a type charriot as it makes it a whole lot easier.

That said, I think it's a bit too good for 40-50pts. I'm comparing it to TK charriots (or Daemon Juggernaut with it's 1W for 50pts).

Compared to TK charriot it's got the same # of attacks, poison, AP, better stats, much better armor, more special abilities and a lot cheaper. In exchange it's slower and stupid.

I think the idea is fine. But again, just make it a simple charriot with those rules (including impact, but excluding attacking in ranks). And up the cost to be in line with other charriots. T5 with Scaly 3 and W3 and ranged poison attacks...it's like a slow gyrocopter at a huge price discount.

Removed shields added as an option.

I would have it follow the rules for a Chariot, but without impact hits. I mean, cmon. A turtle is going to hit an Elf with his head before the elf gets to slap him?

I think 3+ scaly skin is good. Immune to flaming attacks is an idea. Perhaps give them a 2+ ward save against fire.



I would actually make them like giant Alligator Snapping turtles. give them Killing Blow and armor pirecing.

I would also give them the ability to move faster in water. like if they spend their entire movement phase in water they are considered to be M8 for the duration of the phase. could make standing in a river with these guys upsteam potentially deadly. and give them a CC bonus in water.

Because we didn't have enough howdahs yet.....
Just kidding....
This creature looks pretty cool and characterful, also I think it would be a pretty good idea to give it a 'hide in the shell' rule, perhaps +2 to it's save if it has not moved?