Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Since the beastmens magic lore is pretty useless as it is, or at least inferior to the Lore of Beasts, I have taken it upon myself to re-work it.
For the most part I've changed already existing spells; to work the way (I think) they were intended to work. I've made a lore attribute and options for more powerful versions of the individual spells, to give the 8th addition feel to the lore.

The spell 'the scent of blood' might be a bit too good in my own opinion, but I really wanted to do a spell that has synergy with the primal fury rule. If anybody has a good idea for a primal fury spell I would really like to know.

Rip it apart, use it as you please, as long as you let me know what you think.

Lore of the Wild.

0. Bestial surge: signature spell. cast on 9+
Augment: Choose one unit within 24”, the unit makes a move of d6+1”, which can take a unit into combat. In addition the unit gains frenzy. Can choose to target all friendly units, within 24”, at a 20+ casting value.

Lore attribute: Each time a shaman succeeds, in casting a spell from the Lore of the Wild. The shaman, and any unit he has joined, may choose to move 1” in any direction. Note that this cannot take the shaman or his unit into combat.

1. Viletide. Cast on 7+
Magic missile: One enemy unit within 24” takes 5d6 s1 hits. Can be extended to 36” at a 9+ casting value.

2. The scent of blood. Cast on 7+
Augment: Remains in play. All units that pass’ their primal fury tests at 5 or less gains frenzy as if they rolled double 1’s. At a casting value of 15+, the primal fury test needs only to be passed at 7 or less to grant the unit frenzy.

3. Devolve. Cast on 9+
Direct damage: All enemy units within 12” take an unmodified leadership test. If the test is failed the unit suffers the amount of wounds the test was failed by. No armour saves allowed. The range can be extended to 18” at a casting value of 15+.

4. Bray-scream. Cast on 10+
Direct damage: Choose a character within 12”, can be the shaman himself. The character makes a breath weapon attack, at s. 3 no armour saves allowed. Can be extended to 18” at a casting value of 13+.

5. Howling from the woods. Cast on 13+
Hex: Choose an enemy unit within 24”, the unit suffers -1 to its movement allowance,-1 to hit, and -1 to ballistic skill. Can target all enemy units within 24”, at a 20+ casting value.

6. Savage dominion. Cast on 18+
Summoning: Summons a creature from the woods (roll on the table below). There may only ever be one summoned monster, on the table at a time. The monster will enter the table at an edge of the casting players choosing. The monster is an effective part of the army from that moment on. The monster has the value found in the armybook, for the purpose of victory conditions.
1-2 Giant.
3-4 Jabberslythe.
5-6 Ghorgon.

0 - Frenzy AND move on a 9 within 24? That's too much. All units within 20 is way much. You basically took the TK base spell, a race which is movement-impaired, and added a frenzy to it? Move or Frenzy. Until start of next round.

1 - k

2 - primal fury is the most important thing they got and you're making it RIP and 7+. Just give it to them always if you're going to do that, they would be totally gimped if they didn't take this. That's really really powerful and would come up fairly often. I don't think Primal Fury should be mucked with because so many units have it, they have to use this. So every beastman army would have to have casters with this spell.

3 - 24 at a casting value of 15+. If you're going to up the extended casting value, double the range.

4 - k

5 - well -1 to hit and -1 ballistic could be additive and that wouldn't be good. -1 to WS and to Ballistic. And 48". I think casting value could be lowered a few.

6 - This is way too strong. What if you're playing a 500 pt game and an extra 275 pt monster shows up? HI! Make it like transformation of Khadon. Though I don't know the point totals for those monsters. It still seems a bit much. What about Cygor? He's more Beastman-y than a Giant, certainly.


OH, but I do agree the list needs work. But I'd rather it be underpowered than over, cuz the BRB is always the baseline and they got access to it.

DukeRustfield wrote:0 - Frenzy AND move on a 9 within 24? That's too much. All units within 20 is way much. You basically took the TK base spell, a race which is movement-impaired, and added a frenzy to it? Move or Frenzy. Until start of next round.

1 - k

2 - primal fury is the most important thing they got and you're making it RIP and 7+. Just give it to them always if you're going to do that, they would be totally gimped if they didn't take this. That's really really powerful and would come up fairly often. I don't think Primal Fury should be mucked with because so many units have it, they have to use this. So every beastman army would have to have casters with this spell.

3 - 24 at a casting value of 15+. If you're going to up the extended casting value, double the range.

4 - k

5 - well -1 to hit and -1 ballistic could be additive and that wouldn't be good. -1 to WS and to Ballistic. And 48". I think casting value could be lowered a few.

6 - This is way too strong. What if you're playing a 500 pt game and an extra 275 pt monster shows up? HI! Make it like transformation of Khadon. Though I don't know the point totals for those monsters. It still seems a bit much. What about Cygor? He's more Beastman-y than a Giant, certainly.


OH, but I do agree the list needs work. But I'd rather it be underpowered than over, cuz the BRB is always the baseline and they got access to it.

I'm going to start from the bottom working up.

I do think that you're right in regards to the lore, it should be slightly underpowered. As you point out some of these spells are too good, but it leaves me with something to bargain with . The trouble, I find, is to give this lore an edge over beast, shadow and death. It needs spells that has good synergy with the army, works with it's forces and lessens it's shortcomings, to make it an attractive lore.

6 - Important to note that though a Beastman monster cost 275 points, it is far from worth 275 points, the Ghorgon might come close however. I didn't write this, but the monster will arrive from a board edge of the players choosing (will edit this in right away). In a 500 points game you'll first need to roll this spell with what can only be a lvl 2 at best. From most lores in the BRB there would be found similar devastating spells. One round of having a Mountain Chimera, or a round of okkams mindrazored HE spearmen can easily decide the game then and there. Such is the force of magic in low points games unfortunately.
The spell is an already existing one from that lore. All I did was making it a random monster and breaking the link between the summoned monster and the shaman. The way the spell works now, the shaman becomes a vegetable and cannot cast or dispel as long as the monster is on the board. Furthermore he will need to pass a toughness test each time the monster suffers a wound, if failed he suffers a wound himself, and if the shaman is killed you lose the monster as well. As the spell is now it only serves to render your shaman useless, and giving away 275 v-points.
I agree upon the Cygor being more Beastmeny than the Giant, but the original spell did not include the Cygor as a choice due to fluff reasons (I think).

5 - I agree upon this. I guess I wanted it to sound less like the signature from shadow.

3 - You had me at 24".

2 - Had a chance to sleep on this one, what you think about. Augment. Remains in play. cast on 7+: All units within 12", of the shaman, that passes their primal furey test on 5 or less gains frenzy as if they passed the test on double 1's. On a casting value of 13+ the range is extended to 24"?!
I agree that this is a very good spell, but it is also my selling-point. In my mind this is the spell that would make the player really consider this lore over Beast or Shadow. Being a remains in play I'm guessing that it will only have 1 round of cc at a time.

0 - I think I had Vanhel's Dance in mind when I wrote this one. But I would have no trouble with removing the frenzy from this spell and only target one unit ever. The larger version would then be a 2d6+1 move, at a casting value of 15+ instead. It would also serve to make "The Scent of Blood" a more attractive spell.

Thanks for the reply; I'm going to change the wording in the last spell to include the deployment method of the monster.
Later I will give the lore a second draft, but for now I will leave it as it is for people to judge.

snapsepaven wrote:Since the beastmens magic lore is pretty useless as it is, or at least inferior to the Lore of Beasts, I have taken it upon myself to re-work it.
For the most part I've changed already existing spells; to work the way (I think) they were intended to work. I've made a lore attribute and options for more powerful versions of the individual spells, to give the 8th addition feel to the lore.

The spell 'the scent of blood' might be a bit too good in my own opinion, but I really wanted to do a spell that has synergy with the primal fury rule. If anybody has a good idea for a primal fury spell I would really like to know.

Rip it apart, use it as you please, as long as you let me know what you think.

Lore of the Wild.

0. Bestial surge: signature spell. cast on 9+
Augment: Choose one unit within 24”, the unit makes a move of d6+1”, which can take a unit into combat. In addition the unit gains frenzy. Can choose to target all friendly units, within 24”, at a 20+ casting value.

Lore attribute: Each time a shaman succeeds, in casting a spell from the Lore of the Wild. The shaman, and any unit he has joined, may choose to move 1” in any direction. Note that this cannot take the shaman or his unit into combat.

1. Viletide. Cast on 7+
Magic missile: One enemy unit within 24” takes 5d6 s1 hits. Can be extended to 36” at a 9+ casting value.

2. The scent of blood. Cast on 7+
Augment: Remains in play. All units that pass’ their primal fury tests at 5 or less gains frenzy as if they rolled double 1’s. At a casting value of 15+, the primal fury test needs only to be passed at 7 or less to grant the unit frenzy.

3. Devolve. Cast on 9+
Direct damage: All enemy units within 12” take an unmodified leadership test. If the test is failed the unit suffers the amount of wounds the test was failed by. No armour saves allowed. The range can be extended to 18” at a casting value of 15+.

4. Bray-scream. Cast on 10+
Direct damage: Choose a character within 12”, can be the shaman himself. The character makes a breath weapon attack, at s. 3 no armour saves allowed. Can be extended to 18” at a casting value of 13+.

5. Howling from the woods. Cast on 13+
Hex: Choose an enemy unit within 24”, the unit suffers -1 to its movement allowance,-1 to hit, and -1 to ballistic skill. Can target all enemy units within 24”, at a 20+ casting value.

6. Savage dominion. Cast on 18+
Summoning: Summons a creature from the woods (roll on the table below). There may only ever be one summoned monster, on the table at a time. The monster will enter the table at an edge of the casting players choosing. The monster is an effective part of the army from that moment on. The monster has the value found in the armybook, for the purpose of victory conditions.
1-2 Giant.
3-4 Jabberslythe.
5-6 Ghorgon.

Lore Attribute: Why movement?
0. Looks, good, except for the army wide charge. I'd go with 12" for all units, 24" for 1 unit. That's more in tune with how other lores work.
1. Vile Tide. 10+ for extended range. Most lores that have more range but no other bonus cast at 3 higher.
2. Scent of Blood. The problem here is that typically re-rolls to hit is better than frenzy. How about re-roll pursuit dice, re-roll Primal fury; or maybe roll an extra pursuit die and drop the lowest.
3. Devolve, like it. I'd have any unit that fails take D6 wounds, and any unit destroyed turns into a spawn. Base casting would be 1 target, boosted would be 2D6 wounds. Like a baby 13th spell.
4. Bray scream. Being direct damage, you can't cast it into combat. I'd change to augment, have it be caster only, and S4 (normal saves). Boosted version is S3 but can affect other characters within 18" (no armor). Breath is 1 use only as normal, but an additional casting would give you another breath.
5. Howling from the woods. -1M, -1 to hit, and -1 BS is an odd mix. I'd go -1 movement, -1 to hit (melee and close combat) and -2 for any fear or terror tests. Lasts until the start of your next magic phase. All within 24" puts it on par with lore of deaths, -1S/-1T spell.
6. So just like before, except now it's random and you can keep casting. IMO, a little too good. I'd go with what you've got, but the caster gains stupidity while the monster is in play. Can't summon a 2nd monster while the 1st is in play.

-Matt

I didn't even think of them being able to cast multiple times, that's obviously another problem and why transformation of Khadon is what it is. And why the original is what it is. I think Transformation is damn powerful and I think the original is as well. Just make it like transformation. You turn into one of those monters. I don't think they are vastly different than Tranformation ones. If they are, then lower the casting 1 or 2. But no way you should be able to poop out another monster and still have the caster out.

I mean, the big question is ask yourself what Beastmen are lacking. Make magic that HELPS circumvent that problem(s). But having casters--and specifically casters with this lore--shouldn't be mandatory. It's not mandatory in any other race excepting maybe VC/TK and Beastmen aren't in that category.

I really wouldn't support any modification of Primal Fury. It would be like if a Daemon spell modified their Instability. You'd basically have to take it. It's the entire focus of the race. Any change to it, no matter how small, and you've thrown off the balance of nearly the entire army book. And what you're doing is trying to balance the spells, not the race.

I'm not entirely sure what Beastmen are lacking, but I could see something like Earth Blood from Life. Regen until next round. And I think it's kinda beasty. Or maybe Scaly Skin 4+ for a round, cumulative with any other armor.