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One of the things about the new ogre book that bothers me and probably quite a few other gamers out there is the lack of character mounts. I was thinking of the following options, what do you think?

An Ogre Tyrant or Bruiser may take a mount: 50 points for a Mournfang (same stats and special rules as the mournfang entry), 70 points for a Bull Rhinox (inspired by the old FW rules)

Bull Rhinox M7 WS4 BS0 S6 T5 W5 I2 A4 LD5

Type: Monstrous Cavalry

Special Rules: Terror, Large Target, D3 Impact Hits, Thick-Skinned, "Faster you dumb animal!"

"Faster you dumb animal!": Bull Rhinox are extremely fierce animals and many ogres who ride them know they could tap into this anger. At the beginning of your turn, your character may inflict an automatic wound without any saves allowed to his mount (well himself statwise) and then roll a D6. On a 1 the bull rhinox is confused why his master hurt him physically and most likely verbally, the rhinox gains stupidity for the rest of the game. On a +2, the bull rhinox is soon whipped up in a huge frenzy and little can stop its onslaught. The bull rhinox gains devastating charge, frenzy, and hatred for the rest of the game (but can lose frenzy and hatred as normal, the rider does not gain these). Such is its uncontrollable power that if the berserk rage is failed, the ogre riding must take an I check to stay on. If passed then the ogre manages to hang on the rampaging beast. If failed, the ogre subsequently falls off as the bull rhinox goes forth without him. The character loses his mount as is replaced with a model of him on foot with the same wounds as he had before losing his mount. If this would bring him to zero wounds, he will have one wound when on foot. Continue to roll to charge however and if it would bring the bull rhinox into the charged target, the charged target suffers D6+4 S6 wounds distributed as shooting and then the rhinox is removed from the game, if failed the rhinox charges out into the wild and is removed from the game

Also I was thinking of adding in a big name to go with the rhinox

Thunderlord (models on bull rhinox only) 45 points: Some of the most powerful ogres that ride their mounts are legendary in their ability to be one with their bull rhinox where they both are fanatical in the destruction of their enemies. An ogre with this big name will not need to roll after using "Faster you dumb animal!" and counts as getting a +2 and will never need to test for I to stay on his mount. In addition, he gains devastating charge, frenzy, and hatred when his mount does.

Well, the Ogre book makes it clear that Rhinox are really only useable young. After that they are too stubborn to do anything. That's under the scraplauncher entry. As for big names, it's still a herd animal, at least according to the new book. I can't think of an exalted name around donkeys or goats or pack mules--at least not one you'd be proud of.

I'm not entirely sure why they didn't have them, even Mournfangs, as options for mounts. But you could only join Mournfang Cavalry with them, and that's a pretty big limitation.

In any case the cost would be 60 for a Mournfang. You don't subtract the cost for the Ogre(s) that were on it. Just like a Stonehorn cost 250 and comes with a rider but also costs 250 as a mount.

DukeRustfield wrote:Well, the Ogre book makes it clear that Rhinox are really only useable young. After that they are too stubborn to do anything. That's under the scraplauncher entry. As for big names, it's still a herd animal, at least according to the new book. I can't think of an exalted name around donkeys or goats or pack mules--at least not one you'd be proud of.

Well As I said, I based my idea of the Bull Rhinox mount from the FW rules. The fluff for that being ogres stalk out wild rhinoxes (like say wild mustangs) and ambush it. Perhaps it has changed but rhinos in real life are scary as heck!

DukeRustfield wrote:In any case the cost would be 60 for a Mournfang. You don't subtract the cost for the Ogre(s) that were on it. Just like a Stonehorn cost 250 and comes with a rider but also costs 250 as a mount.

Disagree with you there, the Mournfang is a monstrous cavalry, not a monster like the stonehorn. If there examples of monstrous beasts/cavalry upgrades being the same price as the unit, then maybe I would tweak it but so far I based this point cost off the Daemons of Chaos Bloodcrusher compared to Herald on a Juggernaut (they're monstrous cavalry right?)

Well perhaps maybe slight increase, like 40-50 in total. Bruisers are cheap enough already I guess!

The new books all have the same cost as base models for mounts. TK charriots. TK Warsphinx. All the O&G options (they even say, "see page XX for points and options, but count the cost against your allowance for Lords. The _____ replaces the chariot's crew." Not to mention the new Ogre book has exactly the same cost for purchasing the units as for mounts for Hunters. You're not going to get away with a discount when it's the rule in the same book...

It's the benefit of having a super buffed hero at the front lines.

Rhinox are only described as being really dangerous in herds when they stampede. Cows are dangerous in herds when they stampede. You can call yourself the Lord of Cows if you like, but it won't strike terror in your enemy's hearts, methinks.

Except that once again, none of those are monstrous cavalry

Chariots are Chariots
Monsters are Monsters

The main difference between those two and a Monstrous Beast (which will turn the character into Monstrous Cavalry) is that the character on a chariot or monster is basically two units in one (have to distribute shooting, the character can fight even losing the mount, etc) while with a MB, they are one target (aside from that rule I made up). Thats why I suppose its a bit hard for me to make points cost for these, there hasnt been that many MB/MC mounts with a matching unit recently

I suppose though you have made a good point about ogres being buff and all, I guess 50 points is a better base cost. Most Monstrous Beasts are around 40-50 anyways

DukeRustfield wrote:
Rhinox are only described as being really dangerous in herds when they stampede. Cows are dangerous in herds when they stampede. You can call yourself the Lord of Cows if you like, but it won't strike terror in your enemy's hearts, methinks.

I dont know about you but I have a huge fear of Spain during their festival! Not to mention chaos dwarves do ride on a magical flaming flying bull!




And besides, the Storm of Magic entry still makes them sound quite ferocious.

The fact that a Hunter gives up 6 attacks with a Harpoon Launcher and Chaintrap, for the exact same cost when he takes the Thundertusk as a mount just makes it hard to say it matters at all. Chariot users give up a gigantic number of attacks for the same cost.

Lols @ bulls.

Those are people who a) round them up like the dumb beasts they are b) stand in front of them unarmed c) turn them lose and run in front of them like idiots.

It's not that the bulls are scary, it's the people running in front of them are stupid. If you gave any of the runners a gun, a sword, a spear, or anything besides a newspaper, the bulls become a whole lot less frightening.

Besides, the whole point is to get them to the bullfight ring where a single dude then kills them with the aid of a cape, swords, and a really sissy-looking costume. Sure, the costume is scary, but not much else.

But the fact is, if they were uber baddass, they wouldn't be labor animals because you couldn't hook them up to a harness and make them do stuff. Lions make lousy plough animals.

Again, this is fantasy-land, but if you're using real world examples to back up, cows/bulls are not the best place to look.

We tried house-ruling Stonehorns as mounts for tyrants.

Don't.

It's just much too powerful.

We now at least have a litmus test for survivability. How long can x unit stand up to tyrant on Stonehorn.

DukeRustfield wrote:
Again, this is fantasy-land, but if you're using real world examples to back up, cows/bulls are not the best place to look.

Well Rhinox has rhino is their name. Rhinos can be dangerous. Then again, a lot of things in africa are dangerous

Cerebrium wrote:We tried house-ruling Stonehorns as mounts for tyrants.

Don't.

It's just much too powerful.

We now at least have a litmus test for survivability. How long can x unit stand up to tyrant on Stonehorn.

Hmm Stonehorns are much different from Mournfangs methinks though

kenshin620 wrote:Well Rhinox has rhino is their name. Rhinos can be dangerous. Then again, a lot of things in africa are dangerous

Uhhhh.....so? Rhinocerous aren't pack animals that live in arctic mountains with bad eyesight. Rhinox are. Warhammer isn't earth. If they called them Supernova Pudding Surprise it wouldn't affect their stats and the fact gnoblars, like the second wimpiest race in the entire game, are able to drag them around attached to a wagon.

Well I guess my main aim is just to make some modern interpretations of the FW rules, they were good rules and some people have those models so I'm just trying to houserule those rhinox riders

Rhinox Cav are still on their website. The ones I had just became Mournfang Cav, wasn't much of a stretch. I am disappointed in the "no mounts for Tyrants", but riding, I guess, interferes with their chanting of "hurhurhur" I guess

I dislike the "faster you dumb animal rule."

As for gnoblars riding around rhinox, those are still young rhinox. The ones from Forgeworld are much bigger and fully grown.

Hmm I suppose the special rule is lengthy and unnecessary and risky. And I guess the last thing a fantasy player wants is more randomness. Maybe just replace it with normal frenzy or something I suppose.

I guess I forgot, but they have Rhinox individually listed in the Storms of Magic book.

Close to Mournfangs, but some stats are better. They are 115 a model, however. Not worth that much though, IMHO.

Alright decided to change up the Bull Rhinox

Same stats: 80pts, only special rules are Terror, D3 Impact Hits, Thick-Skinned, Frenzy

Thunderlord: 50 pts, characters on bull rhinox only. Bull Rhinox will now do D6 impact hits instead of D3

Hmm, looks quite good, however (as has been previously said in this thread) GW has stated that rhinoxes are pack animals, and that hey are far too slow to be useful as mount. But if you can come up with good fluff to explain its use as a mount I'm all for it.