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So what is the lowest you can make a stat with debuffs?
I use pDenny frequently, and that's what she does.

Are there minimum stat numbers allowed? IE, can I actually take a model's SPD or DEF to 0?
I don't have my book handy, and its driving me nuts that I can't look it up for sure.

I have this vague recollection that there are minimum numbers. But that may just be an artifact from playing Wargames for nearly 20 years.

I was thinking about an upcoming game, where I know my opponent will be using Gorten.
Knowing this, I can make his SPD a 0 with Crippling Grasp and the Withering.

Also, I believe he is ARM 19 that I can knock down to an effective 10 on Feat turn (-2) with Parasite(-3), and an Armor-Piercing Ripjaw(+2 damage on small base).
Down to 8 with Dark Shroud (-2) in the area.

There are no minimum numbers. Just remember that while you can potentially reduce a stat to a negative (Harbinger's offensive spell being the basis of this argument), you can still automiss on a roll of all ones. Now, if you manage to reduce their armor to a negative score, they're pretty much fethed.

They let it go negative? I figured it would at least stop at 0.

The last time I got close was when I got Karchev with Black Oil, Feat, Parasite, Dark Shroud, then charged with a Ripjaw.
I had to run a Bane Thrall up for the DS, but the look on my opponent's face as we totalled up was priceless.
Not 1's to hit, and ARM 3 I think it ended up being with the Ripjaw's charge.

You can get a Khador heavy to Armor 1 with pDenny if you have an armor piercing attack (its stupid).

Page 33 of Primal MkII (Not sure where it is in Prime) says that a model's stats cannot be reduced below 1 in any way, save for DEF, which bottoms-out at 5. It's in the last part of modifiers and the definition of things like current and base stats.

And stuff.

Casper wrote:You can get a Khador heavy to Armor 1 with pDenny if you have an armor piercing attack (its stupid).

21, armor piercing to 11, -3 parasite, -2 feat, -2 shroud brings it to 4... where's the other -3 coming from? That being said, bringing Beast to 4 Armor is hilarious and is seriously making me consider Ripjaws in my pDenny list.

Most Khador armor is 20, not 21 so it would get down to a 3.

Gorman's Rust Bomb would probably do the rest of what's needed to send a Khador heavy into the, "Complete boned" territory of things.

And stuff.

Blaque wrote:Gorman's Rust Bomb would probably do the rest of what's needed to send a Khador heavy into the, "Complete boned" territory of things.

And stuff.

Yup.

I'm sorry but an army shouldn't be able to do that (tbh its really not that difficult or hard to pull off). One of the only problems I have with this game.

Ah, right, I forgot about the ol' rust bomb. It takes a back seat to Black Oil so often I almost forget he has any other abilities besides his smoke.

Casper wrote:

Blaque wrote:Gorman's Rust Bomb would probably do the rest of what's needed to send a Khador heavy into the, "Complete boned" territory of things.

And stuff.

Yup.

I'm sorry but an army shouldn't be able to do that (tbh its really not that difficult or hard to pull off). One of the only problems I have with this game.

I only have seen this when the stars align myself. Usually that many resources are better spent elsehwere, because when you get soemthing to about ARM 10, they are effectively boned anyhow. It's how the Asphyxious and a pack of Bonejacks seems to work in my experiene, but not really something you expect to see every day.

And stuff.

Casper wrote:

Blaque wrote:Gorman's Rust Bomb would probably do the rest of what's needed to send a Khador heavy into the, "Complete boned" territory of things.

And stuff.

Yup.

I'm sorry but an army shouldn't be able to do that (tbh its really not that difficult or hard to pull off). One of the only problems I have with this game.

In addition to what Blaque said, you're also likely ignoring the rest of the army effectively to do it.

12thRonin wrote:In addition to what Blaque said, you're also likely ignoring the rest of the army effectively to do it.

If it's Karchev at the other end of this debuff, I'm ok with that.

12thRonin wrote:

In addition to what Blaque said, you're also likely ignoring the rest of the army effectively to do it.

Perhaps. But you don't have to devote more than 1 bane to get dark shroud. Parasite should be already out there via arch node. So your really only alcoating Gorman and an armor pierciing attack plus a bane (so 7isih poiints).

I agree you don't need to get them all the way down to the jack or that it will happen often but it is possible.

You've likely committed at least 5-6 of her 7 focus to it. That's not a trivial investment either.

Not to mention her once per game Feat.

Casper wrote: I'm sorry but an army shouldn't be able to do that (tbh its really not that difficult or hard to pull off). One of the only problems I have with this game.

Seriously? If you devote all your focus, pop your feat, and position three different units (at least) to to knock out a single piece of armor that your oponent left in range of all of the above, I'd hope you'd kill it.

I mean really...

CorvidMP wrote:

Casper wrote: I'm sorry but an army shouldn't be able to do that (tbh its really not that difficult or hard to pull off). One of the only problems I have with this game.

Seriously? If you devote all your focus, pop your feat, and position three different units (at least) to to knock out a single piece of armor that your oponent left in range of all of the above, I'd hope you'd kill it.

I mean really...

You can't view in a vacuum. Denny should be working with 5 focus that turn (if both upkeeps are already in play which they should be). She allocates 1 focus to the jack with AP what she does with the rest is not important for this discussion.

After using her feat, Gorman walks up and throws his bomb. The jack is now at -7 armor. You charge a single bane into the jack...or frankly the entire unit should be able to finish even a khador heavy off - but lets say the go charge something else.

The AP jack is the final touch at 3d6 + PoW the jack is either dead or left with under 5 boxes (assuming average rolls).

Its really a viable and cheap cost tacit - one that I haven't found a counter to unless your running heavy on the shooting side.

Perhaps I'm just bitter because I can count on one hand the number of times I've beaten a competitive Denny list.

Also, you could have BLT within 2" of the target for the Dark Shroud. Though if you hit with him first, you might not need the AP charge.