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I was intending on starting into the Wargaming hobby with WH40K, but after numerous financial hardships hitting me in quick succession, I'm now realizing that 40K is just to expensive. So I'm going to go with Warmahordes, given that it's about half the freakin' price.

I'm down to picking one of four armies, going mostly from ascetic at this point.

Cyngar I like their chain guns, and quite frankly, Kara Sloan is my favorite looking warcaster/lock in the game. Think their knights look kinda funky though.

Cryx I love the Satyxis mostly, don't care for alot of their units though, but them Satyxis are just awesome!

Legion I all around like, save for some of their more derpish units. Legionnaires look just plain badass to me, as do the Raptors, hate the lighter beasts though.

Circle I love the beasts, Morvahna (and a few other casters), and all their females units, outside of that I'm a wee iffy.

That said, I realize that each army can do whatever you feel as far as running units goes. Each having casters to fill some sort of niche, like heavy jack/beast or heavy unit. I want to be sure I'm clear on the specifics though.

Cyngar is the shooty army, essentially the only army that could be called shooty. Just about everything has a ranged attack, and their melee are mainly tarpits.

Cryx is a glass cannon with a heavy unit theme and heavy debuff theme. Only one of their casters is really good at running lots of jacks, and they rely on a fair amount of infantry.

Circle is a skirmish type, with the beasts filling specific damage or defense rolls, and they have a heavy focus of denial and terrain. If any army would have a caster that is essentially a big walking middle finger, it'd be them.

Legion is a glass cannon, hit hard, hit fast, and debuff abit to help in that process. Heavy on beasts, with only one caster being good for infantry. Infantry being mainly point filler, or taking on specific rolls ussually in helping the beasts do better.

Do I have it right so far?

From the amazing Mr. Grey:

A Beginner's Guide to Privateer Press

Doesn't really help

The two I can answer best:

Cygnar: yes, you've got the gist. Chain guns won't win you any games, but they're better than people think: good board control, will likely gun down a few infantry or plink at a beast/jack decently. They can run all ranged (and are one of the only armies that have multiple effective ranged builds), but tend to be a little better in a balanced force.

Cryx: yes, basically, except arc nodes (which you really want, most of the time), which are better for spells and dodgyness and not as good in actual combat than most light jacks (though definitely can put out some decent damage on their own). Satyxis raiders in particular can be very strong, but you'll probably want more than just them (under normal circumstances, you only get one unit attachment, which means only one unit will be properly supported by them), unless you're just playing within their theme list.

I have less experience with legion and circle, but that's at least basically a solid analysis of them.

You are pretty spot on.

The only point I would argue, is that Cryx isn't really a glass cannon. I know that term gets thrown around a lot for them, but I don't see it at all. The ARM stat on their Jacks is usually lower, I suppose, but they make up for that with higher DEF usually (which is better than ARM). They also have the best units in the game with lots of warrior recursion.

Based off what you've said you like, I think you are pretty safe in any of the options you've listed, except Cygnar, and that's only because I'm not really knowledgeable about that faction

Cryx: The Satyxis Raiders are pretty darn good. Especially with eSkarre, or even pSkarre (all infantry is good with her), but be warned, Cryx, in general, is all about the infantry. If you pick them up and expand to other casters, you'll at least need to pick up max units of Bane Thralls and Mechanithralls

Circle: Most all of their beasts are good, except for maybe the Argus, the female units are good, especially the Tharn Bloodtrackers (possible nominee for best infantry in the game), and Morvanha is a solid Circle caster in the tier 1.5-2 range, in my opinion.

Legion: Legionnaries are decent, usually as a tarpit unit. Raptors are some of the best cavalry in the game. The Heavy beasts all have a purpose, and the light beasts are rarely taken, so no worries there.

WUWU wrote:You are pretty spot on.

The only point I would argue, is that Cryx isn't really a glass cannon. I know that term gets thrown around a lot for them, but I don't see it at all. The ARM stat on their Jacks is usually lower, I suppose, but they make up for that with higher DEF usually (which is better than ARM). They also have the best units in the game with lots of warrior recursion.

Based off what you've said you like, I think you are pretty safe in any of the options you've listed, except Cygnar, and that's only because I'm not really knowledgeable about that faction

Cryx: The Satyxis Raiders are pretty darn good. Especially with eSkarre, or even pSkarre (all infantry is good with her), but be warned, Cryx, in general, is all about the infantry. If you pick them up and expand to other casters, you'll at least need to pick up max units of Bane Thralls and Mechanithralls

Circle: Most all of their beasts are good, except for maybe the Argus, the female units are good, especially the Tharn Bloodtrackers (possible nominee for best infantry in the game), and Morvanha is a solid Circle caster in the tier 1.5-2 range, in my opinion.

Legion: Legionnaries are decent, usually as a tarpit unit. Raptors are some of the best cavalry in the game. The Heavy beasts all have a purpose, and the light beasts are rarely taken, so no worries there.

Interesting what makes you say higher DEF is better than ARM? I've always thought the opposite. DEF in this game is easier to negate and when it just comes down to rolling armour has to be beaten and def only needs matching.

Satyxis Raiders are fantastic with pretty much every caster. Coincidentally, so are Banes (both kinds) and Mechanithralls, but all for different reasons.

Raiders are our premier pain-in-the-butt unit. They're extremely fast, and extremely hard to kill at range. DEF16 against ranged, Pathfinder, immune to blast damage, and cannot be knocked down? That's huge. The Sea Witch's mini-feat granting them all weaponmaster for a healthy charge turn is huge, and even moreso on pSkarre's feat turn. PS14 + 4d6? With their Combined Melee Attacks they threaten anything on the board.

Now add in Feedback against Warmachine armies. Mortenbra + Scavenger (and Slaughterborn if he can get there) love this since it opens up the Scav's Finisher ability, and either Skarre can drop Backlash on a jack before the girls go to town and really whittle down that caster. If you're smacking something huge like the Behemoth, you can really drop their caster's health. But even without Backlash, who doesn't like putting a little more threat on your opponent? Those four or five points of damage can really make the difference. How many assassination runs have failed by that amount?

I definitely agree Cryx loves its infantry, but even outside of the Skarres our Raiders sit pretty high on the list for all of our casters.

Interesting what makes you say higher DEF is better than ARM? I've always thought the opposite. DEF in this game is easier to negate and when it just comes down to rolling armour has to be beaten and def only needs matching.

There are (usually) more armor debuffs or strength/damage enhancements available than defense debuffs/accuracy enhancements. Certain models do make units more accurate (pSkarre's Dark Guidance, pMadrak's Carnage, etc) but more units have damage boosters or things like Weapon Master than those accuracy bonuses.

Hrm, need to think on this. While I do indeed love the Satyxis -alot- I don't like all that many other Cryx units. Hell, pretty much anything with Bane or Thrall in it's name I completely despise (hell, that pretty much does cover everything in their army I hate, but that's a huge number of dudes).

You may be seeing a bit of a pattern here, in that I'm a fan of the female models, which is turning out to be my main thing against the Cyngar: they have little in this department outside of solos and casters.

Bane or Thrall takes care of... Bane Thralls, Bane Knights, Bile Thralls, and Mechanithralls. I know it might shock some people, but there is more to Cryx than those units.

Heck, nobody even said you had to build the entire faction anyway. So you won't be running an eGaspy list or a Goreshade list. The Skarres are definitely competitive, Mortenbra is a lot of fun, Scaverous is perfectly happy with Satyxis though I would go with Croe's Cutthroats instead if money weren't an issue, the Coven is fine, either Denny is fine...

This isn't to convince you to play Cryx, just saying that you should play models you like and just because a faction has other models you don't like doesn't mean you shouldn't play the ones you do.

Also gets rid of Necrosurgeon.

My favorite casters in Cryx are The Coven, Skarre, and Venethrax (I've been able to gather that having a good 3 casters to focus on is good enough for most people).

Soloes, I love Skarlocks, Pistol Wraiths, Warwitch Siren, was considering getting the two Alexia models to be a counts-as Darragh Wrathe (though I do like his look too), and of course the Raider cap. Simply hate Banelord and Gerlak

Units, I love all the pirates and the combine (and the Satyxis of course!)

Would I be in the clear for Cryx? All I ever hear about Cryx is how amazing their various Thrall/Bane units are.







Automatically Appended Next Post:
Felt I should do the same for the others for some reason.

Cyngar I love Kara Sloan, Nemo, and Victoria.

Soloes I like the Journeyman, and Katherine Laddermore, and Maxwell Flinn.

Units, I'm partial to the 13th Gun Mage Strike team, Sword Knights, Stormsmith, and Calvalry, not a fan of much else, though the trenchers seem neat.


Circle I love Morvahna, eKaya, and Baldur warlocks.

Soloes I'm partial to Wolf Lord Morraig, Druid Wilders, and the Blackclad Wayfarer.

Units, love all the Tharn, iffy on everything else, especcially the Wolves.


Legion, I love most of their locks save for Thagrosh.

Units, I dislike most of them, save for raptors, legionaairs, and hex hunters.

I enjoy all their soloes save for Forsaken and Spell Martys.



Blegh, maybe I should just flip a few coins.

Namica wrote:
Legion, I love most of their locks save for Thagrosh.

Units, I dislike most of them, save for raptors, legionaairs, and hex hunters.

I enjoy all their soloes save for Forsaken and Spell Martys.

How can you not love Thagrosh? Giant feth-off ogre badass who turns into an even bigger feth-off ogre dragon badass? Bah. . .

Anyway, it seems like you've hit most of the solid points in Legion without sacrificing for aesthetics. The one thing I might reconsider is Spell Martyrs: single-shot arc-nodes are damn useful.

Our Thrall/Bane units are a staple, but not the only ones. I say just go with the faction that you like the models, you are going to be happier in the long run that way.

Namica wrote:Would I be in the clear for Cryx? All I ever hear about Cryx is how amazing their various Thrall/Bane units are.

eSkarre with Satyxis and Deathjack and/or Nightmare and a Skarlock Thrall is a very competitive list.
Venethrax is less often taken by Cryx players, but his tier list (lots of Bloodgorger trolls) is incredibly fast and aggressive in objective missions.

Legion, I love most of their locks save for Thagrosh.

With Legion, disliking their units is fine--you don't need them to make competitive lists. If you like Saeryn, Lylith, heavy warbeasts, lesser warbeasts, and Strider Deathstalkers and shepherds, you'll be fine.

Hex hunters also puts Bethayne in the realm of possibility, but if you're financially strapped I'd avoid her as that's a very niche list with some potentially terrible matchup issues.

If you like the Legion warbeasts, then I'd start with Legion initially. It'll give you the most model overlap (many warlocks will use the same 2-3 warbeasts well) and, I think, the most return for your gaming dollar playability-wise.

Two shepherds and two Strider Deathstalkers can be fundamental to just about every single Legion list.

Add in a Shredder or two for its animus and utility.

This adds up to 8-10 points of core fundamental list elements.

Now pick your flavor of warlocks and heavy beasts. Saeryn and Absylonia, for example, can run a Carnivean, Angelius, and Scythean well. With your remaining 6 pts you can take a light warbeast, the Blackfrost shard (character hex hunters), a minimum unit, or anything else that catches your eye.

That's a total cost in the ballpark of ~$250 for two legitimate 35 pt lists with basic models/beasts that you can easily build into other lists as you expand your collection. Saeryn is also one of the most competitive warlocks in the game, and Absylonia is no slouch.

Namica wrote:Also gets rid of Necrosurgeon.

My favorite casters in Cryx are The Coven, Skarre, and Venethrax (I've been able to gather that having a good 3 casters to focus on is good enough for most people).

Soloes, I love Skarlocks, Pistol Wraiths, Warwitch Siren, was considering getting the two Alexia models to be a counts-as Darragh Wrathe (though I do like his look too), and of course the Raider cap. Simply hate Banelord and Gerlak

Units, I love all the pirates and the combine (and the Satyxis of course!)

Would I be in the clear for Cryx? All I ever hear about Cryx is how amazing their various Thrall/Bane units are.

These make a pretty solid list. If you're fine pigeon-holing your self a bit, you could do your infantry entirely satyxis and merc pirates, which isn't always as effective, but you can also use the mercs in-faction in skarre's new theme list to pretty good effect.

Felt I should do the same for the others for some reason.

Cyngar I love Kara Sloan, Nemo, and Victoria.

Soloes I like the Journeyman, and Katherine Laddermore, and Maxwell Flinn.

Units, I'm partial to the 13th Gun Mage Strike team, Sword Knights, Stormsmith, and Calvalry, not a fan of much else, though the trenchers seem neat.

This doesn't give you a ton to work with. I can't think of many builds that primarily uses that selection of models.

The Coven, Skarre, and Venethrax, Skarlocks, Pistol Wraiths, Warwitch Siren, Darragh Wrathe, Raider Captain, pirates, Satyxis, Combine

Alright, good start. Let's go with the Skarres for now. They both play very differently, but do enjoy the same models. You will not get much use out of Darragh Wrathe if you find you dislike all of our undead. That's ok, you can't fit everything in one list anyway.

For eSkarre, assuming you absolutely love the Satyxis you could look into her themed force. It isn't especially amazing, and you can run a more competitive list outside of it, but it is still very solid and pretty fun to run. Outside of her theme force, you can make well-rounded lists that have some fun with a variety of units. My current preffered 35pt eSkarre list looks like this:

eSkarre
Deathjack
Malice
Skarlock
Max Satyxis Raiders + Sea Witch
Withershadow Combine
Raider Captain
Pistol Wraith

I have considered swapping Malice for the Leviathan, or downgrading Deathjack to Nightmare, but overall I'm pretty happy with that list and my opponents usually enjoy playing against it more than my more infantry-heavy armies. Speaking of which... pSkarre!

For pSkarre I would recommend you quell your hatred for Gerlack Slaughterborn. Under pSkarre's Dark Guidance he will pac-man consume entire units of infantry which makes up for the less-than-stellar model. Keep a Satyxis Blood Hag nearby in case of Tough models so they don't stop his munching. Even if there aren't any Tough models, Blood Witches are fun.

pSkarre
Helldiver
Helldiver
Stalker
Skarlock Thrall
Max Sea Raiders + Sea Witch
Max Blood Witches + Blood Hag
Raider Captain
General Gerlak Slaughterborn
Warwitch Siren
Gorman Di Wulfe
Ogrun Bokur