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PP has fast become a contender in a market long owned by very few, and this is a incredibly commendable thing. In less than a decade they've become the second largest of the Wargames behind 40K, and the only thing that seems to be keeping them back at the moment, is their inability to properly expand.

The said, they will fix that up eventually, they have to. Where do you see Warmahordes in 10 years from now, when it now can go from market breached to market solidified.

First, it's been more than a decade, they recently had their 10th anniversary stuff up.

Second, larger, slower, a bit nicer quality but more generic, and a story line that still doesn't move very far forward. Probably mid-3rd edition.

Alternatively, if they do something stupid that destroys their stability or ability to produce, expand too quickly (the most likely), or alienate their fanbase, they could tank, but it's unlikely at this point.

They started Warmachine in 2003, the setting is older than a decade, not the game.

I see PP making 10k dollars off of me in that timespan.

I see PP being like the MAC to 40k PC.

Its not that PCs are better, its that there isn't as much support for MAC, IE harder to find players for PP.

I think that gap will close rapidly as people start to see how PP is a game first and hobby second and 40k is always going to be Hobby first game second.

If they keep that focus but slowly upgrade their hobby support, better models, conversions etc., then I think they'll rival GW.

They have a long way to go and I hope that the company doesn't outgrow its own awesomeness.

The big thing will be when someone finally publishes a sales report that lumps Warmachine and Hordes together, and the total quantity finally beats 40k.

It will take a while, but with GW's sales staying mostly flat and PP still unable to keep up with demand despite expanding their production by twice over, and looking to do it twice over again, it looks like Privateer is finally on a course to take a serious stab at the top slot over the next 10 years.

I also forsee GW finally getting their head out of their nether regions and adopting some of PP's rules ideas to win back market share, thus resulting in better games for everyone.

RuneGrey wrote:I also forsee GW finally getting their head out of their nether regions and adopting some of PP's rules ideas to win back market share, thus resulting in better games for everyone.

I think that this may have already started, if the rumored shifts for 6th edition are true: I think GW may have realized that, with the number of successful highly competitive games that have come about, maybe it's time they start targeting a less casual gamer.

In 10 years time, I can see PP becoming more mainstream. In 10 years time, I could also see a significant portion of their range in plastic.

I personally don’t see GW “pulling their head out of their arse” largely because they’re already experiencing a decline right now and if they wanted to pull their head out, they would have done it already (with the only actions they’re currently doing are dividends and downsizing). I could see GW becoming a lot like Sega in 10 years time in the sense that they might not be the juggernaught they used to be but are still somewhat relevant I could see GW doing dramatic things as far as rules and models are concerned to regain customers which means a Horus Heresy expansion will finally be released (although by then a single blister will probably cost $100-200).

I think the days of having “1 company to rule them all” when it comes to wargamming is long dead. In 10 years time, the market will probably be more of a multi hybrid, with a variety of companies competing equally.

Yeah, PP still stands on the edge of a knife, imo.

I picked up Warmachine in '04 and thought it was great. However, as popularity grew I could never order anything for a long time until production caught up. It frustrated me, but it was understandable.

Then it happened again and again and at the oddest times too. I wasn't too pleased at some of the other things with the rule books as well, so on the last occasion I walked away to GW games.

Last year, I was lured back with promises that the game had been fixed with Mk. 2 and it would be great. I figured I'd see the changes and give it a go. I liked Mk. 2, but the minute I placed an order for some of the new models... it all came back. Nothing was in stock again.

I shrugged and continued to play with the stuff I had from up to Superiority. Proxying the 2 essentials (I play Cygnar) I didn't have. However, others couldn't. My FLGS had pulled in a lot of interest for the game, but none of those players could get anything. Of the 14+ people that came to Warmahordes brand new, about 2-4 of them stuck out the waiting period to get their models. The rest canceled their orders and went looking to the next skirmish game that had ready stock.

Thus the windfall of those that were going to buy PP products wound up buying Wyrd Miniatures Malifaux instead.

In the end, PP is still a growing company. But its growing pains are more than obvious right when they don't need them to be. Demand outstripping supply looks good on paper, but when you lose customers because they can't purchase your goods... and its been a habit with PP. If they can't fix that, its easy to believe that they will have a rough next 10 years.

I'm fairly certain that PP will surpass GW (if they haven't already) in the coming decade. What I truly believe will happen is that PP's rulesets will come to posses a portion of the market share occupied by Magic as the premier competitive game.

The rules are super tight, the price is right and you don't constantly need to replace your entire army list as you must do with your deck in Magic. It's also visually stunning and far more interesting to watch than a game of cards.

That being said, PP's influence in my area (Philadelphia/East Coast) is huge. There are two very large PP clubs (that I know of) in the immediate area and several others a few miles out. The focus on the game rather than the hobby really helps, as the vast majority of my fellow players in the area value the game aspect far more than the painting and modeling portion.

My opinion is that PP will be in the same position it is today but with a bigger fan base. PP seems to have their heads on straight and if they can resolve the stock issues then I only see growth for them. However, it only takes one poorly built rule set to ruin a small company. GW gets away with it because so many people are already have the models, but PP does not have that luxury. I hope PP grows into a larger company. Competition breeds better models, rules, and PR.

I see them expanding their range and introducing at least one more Hordes faction, if not two more and one for Warmachine.

As a shop owner and I have a big issue with inventory creep when it comes to WarmaHordes, but it's doable for now. But 10 years from now, the entire range may have doubled. I can also see the range get to the point where they've introduced so many units for each army, that the factions become the same or there are so many units, many of them go unplayed because there are better choices.

Realmgames wrote:I can also see the range get to the point where they've introduced so many units for each army, that the factions become the same or there are so many units, many of them go unplayed because there are better choices.

I already have this concern. Granted, nobody likes having "holes" in their army, but in all reality those holes help give each faction character. Granted, there are ways to fill in holes and still retain flavor, but as time goes on things really start blending. A likewise situation is 4th edition D&D. Like it or not, one of the major criticisms is that the classes are so similar in abilities that once you remove flavor text you wind up practically playing the same thing with over half the "different" classes.

Kirbinator wrote:

Realmgames wrote:I can also see the range get to the point where they've introduced so many units for each army, that the factions become the same or there are so many units, many of them go unplayed because there are better choices.

I already have this concern. Granted, nobody likes having "holes" in their army, but in all reality those holes help give each faction character. Granted, there are ways to fill in holes and still retain flavor, but as time goes on things really start blending. A likewise situation is 4th edition D&D. Like it or not, one of the major criticisms is that the classes are so similar in abilities that once you remove flavor text you wind up practically playing the same thing with over half the "different" classes.

I feel like this is already happening. I was working on a Circle force, until I realized that Cygnar (rangers, other skirmishers (esp. w/ mercs added)), mercs (bad seeds) and Khador (kossites, manhunters, etc. w/ the Old Witch, other terrain creating/negating abilities) already did the skirmishing thing well enough that I didn't feel I needed to try another army.

I've also definitely seen a bit of redundancy ("why take trenchers, when you can take Nyss & Murcoch?" etc.), but that's less problematic than the overlap in specialty

spiralingcadaver wrote:
I've also definitely seen a bit of redundancy ("why take trenchers, when you can take Nyss & Murcoch?" etc.), but that's less problematic than the overlap in specialty

Because then you'd have to build the Nyss and most people would rather take a beating than build them.

PP in essence, is learning from GW but, beating out GW is a whole other thing.

I see the PP expanding out with 5 more armies to choose from.
The majority of the miniatures will be plastic.
The rules will remain clean cut. The challege is keeping things dynamic.

Things I'd like to see released in the future:

Orcs.. I know they are in every other setting but so are Elves, humans, dwarves, etc. Maybe not a faction but something to represent. They exist in the setting, they need representation! hehe.

An actual dragon model. Not dragonspawn, but a dragon. Just saying, they have two dragon factions and no actual dragons... Maybe Legendary Thagrosh lol...

Gremlins from the Monsternomicon. They are too amusing not to have. Maybe a Mercs release hehe.

Gristle and Flay because they'd be cool. Maybe a caster of sorts or a solo.

Spine Ripper - Man this would make a wicked model.

As far as a new faction to introduce its hard to say. They have the Infernals but I'm not sure they could flesh out an entire faction out of them. Not entirely sure they NEED an entire new faction. Maybe split the Mercs and Minions up into actual separate factions IDK...

It will be very interesting to see where PP takes WM/H in the future.

^A dragon would be interesting - but the only problem would be it's power level. In the setting, Dragon's are fraggen nuts. They're completely alien beings that actually mutate the area and creatures around them and are on an entirely different scale of power.

Well they have Drakes in the setting too which are basically dragons but less powerful. Could toss them in and I'd be happy.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my dragonspawn, but it still leaves me wanting an actual dragon on the board, if for nothing more than to see it on the table and smile

Meh, not exactly a make or break thing to me, just think it would be cool.

hivemind66 wrote:Well they have Drakes in the setting too which are basically dragons but less powerful. Could toss them in and I'd be happy.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my dragonspawn, but it still leaves me wanting an actual dragon on the board, if for nothing more than to see it on the table and smile

Meh, not exactly a make or break thing to me, just think it would be cool.

Drakes aren't dragons. Drakes are lizards with wings, that can spit fog juice at you (also, altogether silly looking). Dragons are gods. Dragons, if rendered in proper scale, would be the size of a couch. Dragon's aren't really an option here. Fog Drakes might actually make it in eventually as a Blackwater warbeast.

hivemind66 wrote:Well they have Drakes in the setting too which are basically dragons but less powerful. Could toss them in and I'd be happy.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my dragonspawn, but it still leaves me wanting an actual dragon on the board, if for nothing more than to see it on the table and smile

Meh, not exactly a make or break thing to me, just think it would be cool.

'

Legion is the closest thing you're going to get, I think.

Laughing Man wrote:
Drakes aren't dragons. Drakes are lizards with wings, that can spit fog juice at you (also, altogether silly looking). Dragons are gods. Dragons, if rendered in proper scale, would be the size of a couch. Dragon's aren't really an option here. Fog Drakes might actually make it in eventually as a Blackwater warbeast.

A counch may be a bit too big, but a properly scaled dragon would probably be larger than a Titan.

Look at the size difference between Lord Toruk (the biggest and baddest of all the dragons) and the humans at his claw.

The main problem with this size scale: the Dragonfather is crouching.

That's right, he's 19 people high crouched.

We also have no indication how long his body and tail are or his spread wing span.

19*30 is 570 mm which is about 22.5 inches tall.

I have a feeling even smaller dragons would be unusably large as models for anything outside of large Unbound games. And way too powerful(read Scaefang's destruction of the Castle of the Keys in FOH: Skorne where his merest touch was causing things to collapse).

Given how big Blighterghast is, we can make a pretty good guess about how long dragons would be, and it's pretty much a minimum of four feet or so for Toruk, unless he's coiled up.

Yeah, it'll never happen. I'm ok with it. My dragonspawn looks just amazing anyways so its all good.

Besides, the Throne of Everblight is about as big as a model can get for PP hehe. Its massive.

I do enjoy the fact that dragons in the Iron Kingdoms are godly.