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This is an excellent thread to come by and I am glad I read into it more!. We were thinking of contacting a few casters that did cast in restic but seeing the results here we will stay clear from that material and stick with Metal and Resin, This restic stuff seems to be terrible for quality and detail!. Something we want to ensure avoid for our coming up start up campaign!.

thanks everyone for all of the posts in this thread you have convinced one miniatures company to stay clear away from this material !.

with best regards - Shawn.

Well, I would say that is the best possible outcome! And definitely a large part of the original purpose of the movement, to raise awareness of the material properties in the community when some claims about it were initially very confusing.

Thanks for posting here, and looking forward to seeing your product in resin or even good old fashioned metal!

I'm furiously painting through my 28mm sci-fi so I can justify buying some of those Wulkin from UFWG. I only purhase new miniatures for a given scale/genre when I'm done everything I have for it. It might be a while :( A kickstarter type thing is good news though. That might give me the time I need to finish my warzone plastics (also not made of an awesome material-- ABS, but still better than PVC).



They're already available in metal:
http://ufwg.weebly.com/shop.html

 RiTides wrote:
Well, I would say that is the best possible outcome! And definitely a large part of the original purpose of the movement, to raise awareness of the material properties in the community when some claims about it were initially very confusing.

Thanks for posting here, and looking forward to seeing your product in resin or even good old fashioned metal!

Indeed!

A victory, I dare say, for the Knights!

A victory, in fact, for us all!

Thank you for the post frozenwastes here is a better image of them done by none other than Dwartist himself!,


also on our facebook we have leaked a few images of what you can expect in our start up campaign (https://www.facebook.com/underfirewargaming).

Also you wont be disappointed when our start up campaign comes out it will defiantly be something to check out, also our alpha version of our rules will be released during the campaign to give everyone a feel of our game system which I can say is shaping up to be a very fun and innovative system!.

And again thanks too all of you on here we will steer away from such material and continue our range in " good old metal" and resin , a victory indeed .

with best regards everyone! - Shawn.

 RiTides wrote:
Mathieu, I made a similar post to this in another thread previously, but am bringing it in here and updating it:


There is a limited number of materials in which to have wargaming models cast, which should all be covered by the list below:

Spoiler:

1. Hand Cast Resin (polyurethane, usually one of many varieties from a company called Smooth On). Labor intensive, so expensive unless you know someone who does it on the side (Wehrkind does it in his basement, highly recommended!). Quality can be very good but needs to be QC'ed for air bubbles and the like. The detail it can hold is incredible, and it can allow for undercuts that other methods cannot, due to it being cast from a flexible silicone mold. Forgeworld, Mierce Miniatures, and many other companies use this material / method.

2. Spincast Resin (aka Trollcast, a mix of different plastic materials). I actually know of no one else who does this but Ed at Trollforged, it is proprietary or at least a trade secret in many ways. It lets you get volume out of resin casting that is simply impossible with hand cast resin, and holds detail better than something like PVC. However, it also can be more brittle, and have more air bubbles at times. See example pictures here and here, since this is one of the rarer materials on the list.

3a. PVC. A type of injection molded plastic, which usually results in softer details than other materials on this list, and can also have harder to remove mold lines. Can be a good fit for some organic models. This material has lower start-up costs for making molds than doing so for High Impact Polystyrene (HIPS) which is what is generally known as "hard plastic" that companies like GW / Malifaux (from WGF) use. PVC is also easier to remove from the mold, and so does not require as much expertise in model design and mold making. Reaper Bones material would fall under this category, although they have a proprietary mix, along with most board game models and all of CMON's Kickstarter projects.
3b. ABS. Recently the Wrath of Kings project by CMON had some weapons made from another type of injection molded plastic, ABS (the plastic that legos are made of). The results on these so far are largely similar to PVC. More to come as pictures come in.

4. HIPS (high-impact polystyrene, commonly just called polystyrene). The gold standard for a material that is easy to work with, but as noted under the PVC entry above, you have to sculpt with it in mind and can have much fewer undercuts than in hand cast resin. Start up costs and waiting time can also be massive (see the results of WGF's customers: Dreamforge, Kingdom Death, Malifaux). An extremely high level of expertise is required to be able to create models in this material.

5. Metal... the old faithful! Holds detail well, can be difficult to assemble, paint can chip... but it is still the best choice for some smaller companies, and Infinity still uses it exclusively! It is also stronger which helps with their finely-featured models.

As an overall note, each of these materials require someone good at their craft to create high quality miniatures out of. We've seen bad examples of HIPS models done by companies not as skilled as GW or WGF in making molds for them, for example. But you can have some indications of what to expect from the above list.

Hope that helps, Mathieu!

That's a good list, but I think you're missing a few types or formulations.

-Where does Restic fit in your list? It's not a PVC of the type that Bones/Clix/etc are made of, and it's not a spincast resin like Ed from trollforged.

-There's also the plastic that confrontation figures (possibly AT43 as well) are made of. It's more brittle than PVC models I've used, but also as far as I know it isn't HIPS or ABS. (Which probably shouldn't be a subset of PVC in your list). It could be a different PVC formulation, but I don't know.

If you want a good current example of ABS, its' the material used for the Robotech RPG tactics figures.

Sounds good . Resin is definitely my favorite, but metal is good in the right application (particularly character sculpts, although it can be intimidating for large units). My converted gatorman army is about half and half

 RiTides wrote:
Sounds good . Resin is definitely my favorite, but metal is good in the right application (particularly character sculpts, although it can be intimidating for large units). My converted gatorman army is about half and half

It does really come down too what is realistic in cost. Metal molds for a master mold can cost $125.00 for just the master and 125 ish for the production mold depending on miniature size and scale. Resin molds are cheaper usually around $60 bucks or so for an estimated 30 - 40 ( if your lucky and the mold doesn't ware out) casts before a new mold has too be made.

Metal allows you to recast failed casts , resin however you have to eat the cost. however resin holds the best detail and allows you to cast so many more poses than metal can. However the big thing i have been told and learned is that it truly depends on how many miniatures you expect to sell , if just a few hundred you will want to go for resin if in the thousands than metal is the better option as this material will allow you too keep production up with demand.

However some pieces like wings for example would be very difficult to cast in metal and you can all just imagine the nightmare assembling metal wings onto a miniature. Resin is usually the better option in this case. Larger creatures and such usually are an auto for resin as even though the molds need to be replaced it will be much more affordable than a metal version of the creature.

A certain individual I know of who runs the Strange Aeons skirmish game, his resin so far as I have seen is one of the best resins in the market place, the durability of his casts you can chuck at a brick wall and not even have a scratch on the material, let alone the paint does not even chip!.

HIPS is an extremely expensive material and i am still shocked that Malifaux has gone with this material, being they are a skirmish game the amount of miniatures needed to sell to make back the cost of investing in one of those molds is going to be a high amount. They must be doing very well in sales too recast such a large amount of their range in this material. The market i feel will not go the HIP way as the costs are truly far too out their for most companies except those few who are going very strong and have the number of customers to make it worth while.

Even then i still have never seen a HIP miniature in terms of detail equal the ones i have seen in metal or resin. This restic was supposed to bring together the speed of metal casting with the cost effectiveness and light weight of resin/plastic. I guess we will still be waiting for someone in the casting industry to come out with an innovation that can tackle the casting demand of the market in product demand but also maintain high detail quality that we currently get out of Resin and Metal miniatures. I think we will see most skirmish games and most 28mm companies continue too produce in Metal and Resin for the foreseeable future until someone invents the next big casting material i see this will be how the market will be.

With the growth and expansion of the market into this new golden age who knows what will happen in the next even 5 years? i will keep an eye out for anyone who comes up with a casting material than can combine the strengths of the most popular mediums and also avoid the negatives of each. Until then Metal for most of our miniatures, Resin for our larger creatures and perhaps special characters. Scenery as well can be done in resin however we have also seen some amazing work in MDF as well.

thank you for the great thread i will continue too watch it with interest!.

with best regards - Shawn UFWG.

Shawn,
If you're looking into the pros and cons of different metal vs resin from someone who's been in the indie miniatures business for quite a while,( and recently fulfilled a KS in what is probably record time) check out this post from Johnny Lauck, of the recently closed Mega Minis.
http://johnnyborgcastings.blogspot.com/2015/01/my-dog-ate-my-ks-funds-part-3-of-10.html

He does a great job of breaking down costs, mold life, etc and how it affects profitability.

Knights! I call upon you once more.

Sedition Wars is being sold at ~$27 (with discount) at Miniature Market. What say you?!

 Eilif wrote:
Shawn,
If you're looking into the pros and cons of different metal vs resin from someone who's been in the indie miniatures business for quite a while,( and recently fulfilled a KS in what is probably record time) check out this post from Johnny Lauck, of the recently closed Mega Minis.
http://johnnyborgcastings.blogspot.com/2015/01/my-dog-ate-my-ks-funds-part-3-of-10.html

He does a great job of breaking down costs, mold life, etc and how it affects profitability.

Thank you for the post it was very informative and right on with what I have come to learn about the materials. I am still a little torn between Resin and Metal , our Metal casts are good, their was a slight crushing on one of our guys chests that isn't noticeable unless you grab the original resin master cast and compare it closely. The miniature is fine and I have learned that metal molds can at times do that with certain miniatures depending on the casting and pose however it has made me think again about just going all pure resin. However the cost factor of resin means raising the price a tad more ( something we do not want too do for our game to make it very competitive with what is out their already) and it will be much more time consuming for our commissioned casters to keep up with demand due to how long resin casting takes.

We will be doing our larger creatures and individuals in resin for sure, so we will end up balancing out what gets done in metal and what gets done in resin. As soon as our rules get closer too alpha stage which should be in another two months we can begin advertising our start up campaign and getting things rolling so we have some more time to talk with our casters and figure out which concepts should be done in metal and which in resin. So far I can say it will probably be the packs of squads of guys will be in metal and the packs of larger creatures will be done in resin.

thank you for your feed back and please do let us know your view , likes and dislikes of the two , too not disrupt this thread it would probably be best to pm us .

however yes we will be staying away from restic and waiting for someone out their to come up with a new material that have much better qualities to it.

 Dentry wrote:
Knights! I call upon you once more.

Sedition Wars is being sold at ~$27 (with discount) at Miniature Market. What say you?!

Do it. Do it now (if for the bases alone, if nothing else).

 Dentry wrote:
Knights! I call upon you once more.

Sedition Wars is being sold at ~$27 (with discount) at Miniature Market. What say you?!

I say you'd be mad not to! I'd buy a couple at that price in a heartbeat, the cheapest it gets over here is £35 (about $50), which is just a tiny bit too much (if it hit £30 I'd grab it).

Ordered. And for $22 on eBay.

Good Choice!

For those looking for it at Miniatures Market, it's $27 at Amazon too, but with free shipping if your total hits $35.

The terrain set is good, too, even though it won't be an amazing deal until some rule set develops an army of walking doors.