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Herzlos wrote:
I'd be surprised if it didn't come with all of the rules required to play. It's entirely possible they managed to fit that within the reference sheet and leaflet though. Not all games rulebooks need to be huge tomes.


That would make the £50 price point even more baffling. You tend to get a lot more bang for your pound with other board games. Hopefully Warlord will have it at Salute so I can have a closer look at it but from what we have been shown it's not worth the price tag IMO.
   
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weeble1000 wrote:
No kidding. $75 is a little spendy for 30 miniatures, tokens, and a play mat.

That's $2.50 per model, not counting the other gameplay materials. For mass plastic models from what, repeats of 2 unique sprues, that's a bit above market.

$50 seems about right, especially as a starter box. $45 would be a nice deal, and I think Warlord would get a lot more sales at such a price point. At $45, I'd buy it just to check it out.


They need to cover their licensing fee too. The price is going to be higher than if they owned the IP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Herzlos wrote:
I'd be surprised if it didn't come with all of the rules required to play. It's entirely possible they managed to fit that within the reference sheet and leaflet though. Not all games rulebooks need to be huge tomes.


The graphic indicates a 16 page quick play rule book is included.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/09 16:42:39


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Louisiana

 CptJake wrote:
weeble1000 wrote:
No kidding. $75 is a little spendy for 30 miniatures, tokens, and a play mat.

That's $2.50 per model, not counting the other gameplay materials. For mass plastic models from what, repeats of 2 unique sprues, that's a bit above market.

$50 seems about right, especially as a starter box. $45 would be a nice deal, and I think Warlord would get a lot more sales at such a price point. At $45, I'd buy it just to check it out.


They need to cover their licensing fee too. The price is going to be higher than if they owned the IP.


Sure, but clearly plenty of Terminator fans don't think the licence is worth the price tag.

The license fee is Warlord's problem, not the customer's. Warlord may think that the license justifies the higher price tag, but it remains to be seen if the license is enough to drive sales at that price. I'm sure Marvel and DC are costly licenses, but the BMG miniatures aren't priced terribly above market, if at all.

Warlord could, for example, eat the license fee and use the powerful IP to return value in sales volume, as opposed to profit margin. The license fees don't have to get passed directly on to the consumer or be reflected in the retail price. At the end of the day it depends on what the market will bear.

Will the market bear $75 for a Terminator Genesis starter box with repeats of two sprues, dice, tokens, and a play mat? That remains to be seen. But I aint buying it at $75.



Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"

AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."

AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
 
   
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Well, the good news is, this doesn't look any more disappointing than the movie looks like it will be.

Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?

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Richmond, VA

weeble1000 wrote:
 CptJake wrote:
weeble1000 wrote:
No kidding. $75 is a little spendy for 30 miniatures, tokens, and a play mat.

That's $2.50 per model, not counting the other gameplay materials. For mass plastic models from what, repeats of 2 unique sprues, that's a bit above market.

$50 seems about right, especially as a starter box. $45 would be a nice deal, and I think Warlord would get a lot more sales at such a price point. At $45, I'd buy it just to check it out.


They need to cover their licensing fee too. The price is going to be higher than if they owned the IP.


Sure, but clearly plenty of Terminator fans don't think the licence is worth the price tag.

The license fee is Warlord's problem, not the customer's. Warlord may think that the license justifies the higher price tag, but it remains to be seen if the license is enough to drive sales at that price. I'm sure Marvel and DC are costly licenses, but the BMG miniatures aren't priced terribly above market, if at all.

Warlord could, for example, eat the license fee and use the powerful IP to return value in sales volume, as opposed to profit margin. The license fees don't have to get passed directly on to the consumer or be reflected in the retail price. At the end of the day it depends on what the market will bear.

Will the market bear $75 for a Terminator Genesis starter box with repeats of two sprues, dice, tokens, and a play mat? That remains to be seen. But I aint buying it at $75.



I don't think Warlord particularly cares, as they are just distributing it.

Do you mean Alessio/River Horse?

Regardless, most places will have this at $60 with discount, which it looks to decidedly be worth that (especially for the Resistance/Last Army plastics)

"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
   
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Louisiana

Yea, Judgedoug, 20% off from a discounter would make it a good buy.

Honestly, I think that the underwhelming sculpts are the biggest thing sapping interest in this release.

Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"

AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."

AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
 
   
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weeble1000 wrote:

Honestly, I think that the underwhelming sculpts are the biggest thing sapping interest in this release.


From what we've seen so far, I have to agree.

I'm holding out hope that someone things will look better when we see...better pictures though.

   
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Louisiana

 Alpharius wrote:
weeble1000 wrote:

Honestly, I think that the underwhelming sculpts are the biggest thing sapping interest in this release.


From what we've seen so far, I have to agree.

I'm holding out hope that someone things will look better when we see...better pictures though.


That said, the snap fit feature is pretty intriguing.

Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"

AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."

AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
 
   
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Richmond, VA

From the shots of the Resistance/Last Army guys that have already been shown, I can't think of better looking sci fi infantry plastics. Certainly not Catachans or Cadians, Defiance UAMC, Em4 plastic gangers, Proxie's sci fi models, nor the Epirian plastics.

"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
   
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SoCal

Which pictures are you referring to? The only human minis I recall seeing are some WIPs and a John Connor who looks like he got bit by a rattlesnake.

   
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Richmond, VA

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Which pictures are you referring to? The only human minis I recall seeing are some WIPs


From a month or two ago, the 3ups, shown as they were laying out the sprue for Renedra. Based on those I plan on getting piles of them. There was also a rough home-cast resin copy of one of the 3-ups that was posted.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

and a John Connor who looks like he got bit by a rattlesnake.

It was Kyle Reese. So really Michael Perry's sculpt of Reese looks exactly like Jai Courtney


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And the Endos look, well, like Endos. I assume some enterprising secondary bits manufacturer will make T2 plasma rifles so we're not stuck with just the Genisys vision of weird underslung zap guns.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/04/09 18:05:49


"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
   
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 judgedoug wrote:
From the shots of the Resistance/Last Army guys that have already been shown, I can't think of better looking sci fi infantry plastics. Certainly not Catachans or Cadians, Defiance UAMC, Em4 plastic gangers, Proxie's sci fi models, nor the Epirian plastics.

The early renders and concept art for the Icarus Miniatures figs look pretty bad ass.

And I'm pretty picky about sci-fi miniatures.

Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?

True Scale Space Marines: Tutorial, Posing, Conversions and other madness. The Brief and Humorous History of the Horus Heresy

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privateer4hire wrote:
overtyrant wrote:
No way is that worth £50! More like between £30-£40!!

Am I reading correctly that this box doesn't have the full rulebook?


I think it means that the rules are quick to start with (rather than them being incomplete rules), remember this is being made and marketed as a board game.

I believe Alessio said in a previous interview that there might be some future releases for the game, but it depends on sales of this game.

Pricing wise, I've bought a fair number of board games over the years and £50 seems about right for the contents? Perhaps £5 over-priced, certainly no more than £10.

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Louisiana

20% over-priced would be significantly over-priced.

Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"

AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."

AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
 
   
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cornwall

Yeah £50 for some green army men quality figures and some basic rules ? They're having a a laugh. You can get a play mat like that for £8 loads of figures to use for £1 and a decent set of rules for ether free or a few £
   
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New Bedford, MA USA

I was onboard when I thought $75 included the full rulebook, not just some 16 page quickplay rules.

The HALO boardgame had more sculpts, more minaitures, plastic terrain, while costing less, and still managed to flop.

I can see me picking up this Terminator Boardgame on Black Friday when it's going to be half that price.

   
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Central Cimmeria

 Alpharius wrote:
weeble1000 wrote:

Honestly, I think that the underwhelming sculpts are the biggest thing sapping interest in this release.


From what we've seen so far, I have to agree.

I'm holding out hope that someone things will look better when we see...better pictures though.


I'm right there with you guys. The plastics haven't been very impressive from what I can see. The terminators look a little bit soft.
   
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Richmond, VA

Well gee guys, there's two versions, one which includes the full rules - just like they (gasp) said two months ago
(one for game stores and direct, and the second one for mass market retailers)

http://www.warlordgames.com/terminator-genisys-miniatures-game-two-versions/

TERMINATOR GENISYS – MINIATURES GAME: TWO VERSIONS!

April 10, 2015 - News & Announcements, Terminator - Tagged: Terminator



As of today we can now officially share with you more details about the launch of Terminator Genisys: The Miniatures Game. Warlord Games is the exclusive distributor of The War Against the Machines, a skirmish miniatures game designed and produced by Alessio Cavatore’s River Horse Games, based on the upcoming Terminator Genisys movie by Paramount and Skydance Productions.



Terminator Genisys: The War Against the Machines features 31 stunning plastic miniatures designed to be ready for action in minutes. No glue is required, thanks to their push-fit design, and they come in two clear different plastic colour (metallic grey for the Terminators and army green for the Resistance) to make sure you recognise your forces easily amidst the fog of war.
As a bonus, The War Against the Machines includes a superbly sculpted metal Kyle Reese character to join the Resistance fighters, providing them with special command abilities and heroic traits, Kyle Reese is a perfect to lead the brave Resistance soldiers against the endoskeletons.
Terminator Genisys: The War Against the Machines includes a 128 pages rulebook that allows you to explore every game possibility; starting from the contents of the box but allowing you to expand with the upcoming range of heroes, commanders, troop types and vehicles expected during the year ahead. We will keep you well informed about all these new exciting releases.
While you can play on your regular gaming table, we have included a 2’x3′ double-sided gaming mat, cardboard measuring templates and a set of cardboard terrain to make it a game truly ready out of the box, so you’ll be up and running in no time at all.
Finally, the unique dice game system invites you to play without the need of modifiers or tables and the chaotic “Fate activation system” ensure you’re always involved in the action.
You will be able to get Terminator Genisys: The War Against the Machines and all the upcoming new releases directly from Warlord Games’ online store or through your local store. Pre-orders for the game start in May.



TERMINATOR GENISYS: THE WAR AGAINST THE MACHINES
Contents:
  • Full-colour rulebook: 128 pages

  • Exclusive metal Kyle Reese model (brings special abilities, command options and heroic feats)

  • 10 Terminator Endoskeletons (Two different posses, advancing and… relentlessly advancing!)

  • 5 Terminator Crawlers (You thought the ENDO was done?!)

  • 16 Resistance Soldiers (with a selection of weapons from missile launchers to plasma rifles!)

  • Quickstart rules: 16 pages

  • 2 punchboards: Includes all the scenery, tokens and gaming aids needed to play!

  • 1 full colour double-sided 2’x3′ gaming mat

  • 1 full-colour double-sided rules reference sheet

  • 13 colour-coded dice: 2 sets of D4, D6, D8, D10, D12, D20

  • 1 custom made metal colour Fate die



  • River Horse and Warlord Games want to make sure that this game was everywhere so more people would discover it and start playing, even those who have never wargamed before! The twist and push-fit components eliminate the need for hobby tools making it the perfect introductory product for those that have not yet discovered the wonders of wargaming. With this in mind we have created Terminator Genisys: The Battle for the Future. The main difference is that this simplified product only includes plastic miniatures and a 16 pages ruleset to play with the components in the box. We didn’t want to scare newcomers with a 100-odd page rules or metal miniatures. We leave that for us wargamers!
    You can expect to see Battle for the Future truly everywhere, not only in specialised hobby and games stores, allowing us to reach those that have yet not discovered River Horse and our great games through a comprehensive and approachable starter set.

    BATTLE FOR THE FUTURE
    Contents:
  • 10 Terminator Endoskeletons

  • 5 Terminator Crawlers

  • 16 Resistance Soldiers

  • Quickstart rules: 16 pages

  • 2 punchboards: Includes all the scenery, tokens and gaming aids needed to play!

  • 1 full colour double-sided 2’x3′ gaming mat

  • 1 full-colour double-sided rules reference sheet

  • 13 colour-coded dice: 2 sets of D4, D6, D8, D10, D12, D20

  • 1 custom made metal colour Fate die


  • We’ll be bringing you more information as we get nearer the film and game release, and building a dedicated area of our website, so keep your eyes on the Warlord Newsletter!

    This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/04/10 13:41:48


    "...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
       
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    The Battle Barge Buffet Line

     judgedoug wrote:
    Well gee guys, there's two versions, one which includes the full rules - just like they (gasp) said two months ago
    (one for game stores and direct, and the second one for mass market retailers)

    http://www.warlordgames.com/terminator-genisys-miniatures-game-two-versions/


    Did they mention previously the price for the wargamer version?

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    Beasts of War have some stuff up about Resin add on for the Terminators.

    http://www.beastsofwar.com/river-horse-games/terminator-genisys/sneak-peek-multipart-resin-terminator-prototypes/

    And I've nothing to do with BoW. I'm over 50 miles from them.
       
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    Richmond, VA

     RobertsMinis wrote:
    Beasts of War have some stuff up about Resin add on for the Terminators.

    http://www.beastsofwar.com/river-horse-games/terminator-genisys/sneak-peek-multipart-resin-terminator-prototypes/

    And I've nothing to do with BoW. I'm over 50 miles from them.


    Well golly look at them green army men quality renders
    very soft
    most unimpressive

    Spoiler:

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/10 13:52:34


    "...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
       
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    -

    "LOLWUT?" comes to mind...

    I guess we'll see when the RENDERS become actual MINIATURES?

    I do admire your enthusiasm for this project as well as for just about everything Mantic does as well though - and I do hope that things turn out better than we've been show so far!

       
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    Myrtle Creek, OR

     judgedoug wrote:
    Well gee guys, there's two versions, one which includes the full rules - just like they (gasp) said two months ago
    (one for game stores and direct, and the second one for mass market retailers)..


    Maybe I missed it but didn't look like anybody was arguing that there weren't two versions (gasp!).

    The question seems to be how much the full wargame version will cost - esp. if the board-gamey version is selling for $75 USD.
    Can't imagine it'll be cheaper and folks including me are already head scratching at the price for the simplified one.

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    also worth bearing in mind that silver plastic (or chromed plastic) tends to look less than stellar in photographs so even then we see them they'll look less good than they will when properly painted

     
       
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    Northern Ireland

    As they are being made by Renedra, I would doubt that the moulding is less than stellar but the proof will be in the pudding.
       
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    On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

     judgedoug wrote:
     RobertsMinis wrote:
    Beasts of War have some stuff up about Resin add on for the Terminators.

    http://www.beastsofwar.com/river-horse-games/terminator-genisys/sneak-peek-multipart-resin-terminator-prototypes/

    And I've nothing to do with BoW. I'm over 50 miles from them.


    Well golly look at them green army men quality renders
    very soft
    most unimpressive

    Spoiler:


    Am I missing something here? Those look plenty good to me, if you imagine them scaled down to 28mm.

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    I'm calling the version with the full rulebook and metal Reese figure @ $100

       
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    The Battle Barge Buffet Line

    I'm just not sure how the 100% truescaling at that size will work visually for the models. I know they're endoskeletons and by definition (at least with the t-800) of smaller volume than a normal human of the same height but I'm just unimpressed visually with the end result. Two piece press fit itty bitty weedy static posed robot skeletons due to being true scaled 100% accurate isn't what I personally was looking for. YMMV.

    I just don't see this game (especially at the $75 price point) making that big of a splash. I would have preferred a larger model scale (like warzone 32mm) along with a smaller game scale (skirmish) with a small handful (2-4) terminators versus a squad (5-10) humans. I can't really even see myself buying it personally for alternate uses like I did with the gears of war boardgame.


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    Richmond, VA

     Alpharius wrote:
    I do admire your enthusiasm for this project as well as for just about everything Mantic does as well though - and I do hope that things turn out better than we've been show so far!


    Huh?


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     warboss wrote:
    I'm just not sure how the 100% truescaling at that size will work visually for the models. I know they're endoskeletons and by definition (at least with the t-800) of smaller volume than a normal human of the same height but I'm just unimpressed visually with the end result. Two piece press fit itty bitty weedy static posed robot skeletons due to being true scaled 100% accurate isn't what I personally was looking for. YMMV.


    Hmm, so you'd prefer infiltrator endoskeletons to be physically larger than the actual skeletons of the humans they are infiltrating into?
    Or do you mean scaled more like the melon-head ham-fist Hobbit/child skeletons ala GW?

    If you mean more pose variety, I agree. I'd love it if there were more poses as well, but as it appears Alessio is using his own capital for this game - and no Kickstarter dollars - I can understand the initial release supporting two sprues (and if one sprue needs to have variety, the Resistance one trumps endoskeletons)

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/13 16:20:39


    "...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
       
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    The Battle Barge Buffet Line

     judgedoug wrote:
     Alpharius wrote:
    I do admire your enthusiasm for this project as well as for just about everything Mantic does as well though - and I do hope that things turn out better than we've been show so far!


    Huh?


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     warboss wrote:
    I'm just not sure how the 100% truescaling at that size will work visually for the models. I know they're endoskeletons and by definition (at least with the t-800) of smaller volume than a normal human of the same height but I'm just unimpressed visually with the end result. Two piece press fit itty bitty weedy static posed robot skeletons due to being true scaled 100% accurate isn't what I personally was looking for. YMMV.


    Hmm, so you'd prefer infiltrator endoskeletons to be physically larger than the actual skeletons of the humans they are infiltrating into?
    Or do you mean scaled more like the melon-head ham-fist Hobbit/child skeletons ala GW?

    If you mean more pose variety, I agree. I'd love it if there were more poses as well, but as it appears Alessio is using his own capital for this game - and no Kickstarter dollars - I can understand the initial release supporting two sprues (and if one sprue needs to have variety, the Resistance one trumps endoskeletons)


    I would have preferred more pose variety but I'd also prefer if the terminators themselves were more physically imposing. The iconic t-800 is a 6'3" almost 300lb (if actually human) brute of a man who towers over the resistance fighters who grew up likely with chronic malnutrition their whole lives. I would want in a tabletop game the endoskeleton that fits in the former to actually be larger than the latter. I don't want giant hands and head GW proportions but I also would prefer not to have terminator forearms that are as thin as IG vox antenna which looks like it might be the case in truescale 28mm. I'm willing to accept 90% accuracy if the visual style improves much more than that percentage. In the end, I won't know if this is actually the case until this hits the streets (or possibly at Salute if they have the minis there in play and someone throws down other minis for a side by side comparison shot).

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