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Yes. It's late. We get it. We know.

Hello dead horse.

Meet beating.

Actually, it was a reflection on how very different things were back then. I actually expected it to deliver in the timeframe listed, and I'm sure that Mark did as well. Nowadays we laugh and mentally add 6-12 months (at minimum) to the fulfilment date (more if the product has stretch goals, because they will come in waves over the following year) while the project creator(s) frantically tell us that their project will be different, and deliver on time...

 HisDivineShadow wrote:
Yes. It's late. We get it. We know.

Hello dead horse.

Meet beating.

Clients that want stuff earlier rather than later, shocking behavior!

 Azazelx wrote:
Actually, it was a reflection on how very different things were back then. I actually expected it to deliver in the timeframe listed, and I'm sure that Mark did as well. Nowadays we laugh and mentally add 6-12 months (at minimum) to the fulfilment date (more if the product has stretch goals, because they will come in waves over the following year) while the project creator(s) frantically tell us that their project will be different, and deliver on time...

A lot of that only applies to big projects though - small scale projects don't suffer the same issues. We've delivered 4 Oathsworn KSs on time/early.
What big Kickstarters could really use is variable delivery dates based on funding levels... i.e. '100% funded, delivery Feb 2015, 300% funded, delivery April 2015 etc...'

 Lovejoy wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
Actually, it was a reflection on how very different things were back then. I actually expected it to deliver in the timeframe listed, and I'm sure that Mark did as well. Nowadays we laugh and mentally add 6-12 months (at minimum) to the fulfilment date (more if the product has stretch goals, because they will come in waves over the following year) while the project creator(s) frantically tell us that their project will be different, and deliver on time...

A lot of that only applies to big projects though - small scale projects don't suffer the same issues. We've delivered 4 Oathsworn KSs on time/early.
What big Kickstarters could really use is variable delivery dates based on funding levels... i.e. '100% funded, delivery Feb 2015, 300% funded, delivery April 2015 etc...'

They certainly can. While you and Stonehaven and even Impact! may well have delivered several on time, other relatively small projects like Imbrian Arts, Bruno Galice's Pirate Goblins, Avatars of War, 2 RBG campaigns, Trollforged Aliens, Winter War Wargamng have run into major snags and huge issues for all kinds of reasons.

Which reminds me, I need to buy your dwarves at some stage. Have you thought of creating some kind of "All the Dwarves" retail bundle on your website?

Every time someone brings up AoW, a little bit of me dies inside.

Sure DFG is late, but at least we will all get what we ordered eventually.

For me, there is a huge difference between late with an engaged creator and periodic updates, and late with none of that. The timing was disappointing here, sure, but Mark was a bit of a trailblazer on Kickstarter- I'm sure if he were to have done it a year or two later, after all the lessons learned, he would have handled it much differently! He's obviously a very, very smart guy, and much of this was on the manufacturing side (which, having learned from, he would estimate differently in the future).

But I agree about wishing there was a way for Kickstarter to allow creators to adjust delivery date- or, rather, perhaps be more intelligent about reward levels. For example, you didn't make a reward limited, but pledges are skyrocketing- let the creator make it limited after the fact, so the first few hundred are listed with the original expected delivery date, but stretch items and later backers are listed with a later date.

I've seen smart campaigns now make every reward limited, so that they can control these kinds of things (and just up the limits if things are going well and the delivery date is not in jeopardy).

Project creators can make a level limited even if it has pledges, as long as the limit is greater than the number of current pledgers

they just can't change the text, or remove the pledge level altogether

the trouble is changing the delivey date on the 'next' level can kill momentum (eg Armymals by titan forge)

or a project creator really thinks they can deliver and problems only surface later (eg redbox games 1st project)

Or let people know that after backer ## at a given reward level, there will be an additional delay of X weeks due to the workload.

I know it's sort of a reverse 'Early Bird' deal, but it could mean people think "OK, I really only wanted level 2 reward, but that's already in the delay zone, so maybe I'll stretch to the level 3 reward, which means I'll get more and I'll get it sooner.

And as a backer of both this and PB's RRT Tactics KS, it seems to me that, despite the evidence, that is later than this. If you work out the difference in expected delivery date to now for just the stage 3 items from mark, and for the PB KS, Mark is currently 501 days behind that expected delivery date with PB only being 287 days late at the moment.

I am still happier about Marks stuff, and whilst I am really looking forward to getting it (and sooner is always better than later) I am not worried at all about what has happened to it. As RTides said, Mark will have learned from this and will add in extra time on his next KS - which I am sure I will be in on to some degree or another

PB on the other hand, have burned all their bridges so far as I am concerned. Late, poor communication, unrealistic optimism in both quality of product and shipping date, still no solid information on EU shipping even for Wave 1 product, continually dumping on backers with exclusive models that are not for KS backers, only con attendees - where's the love for the ROW? and rigged votes to allow them to sell direct before fullfilling any backer deliveries, never mind the promise to ship to ALL backers before retail. I feel like going to KS and starting a project for a KS Project Handbook, where I will continually reference PB as the way NOT to do it.

So out of the two projects, the one that is latest is the one I am least worried and most excited about and the one from the bigger company is the one I am concerned is actually going to be the one I get nothing from!

Mark I'd back again without a second thought, PB will get no such treatment. I might send them an e-mail saying I'll back, then send them $1 9 months later, see how they like it.

It is awfully quiet on the Dreamforge front, i hope everything is OK, we haven't seen an update in a while on any of his sites. :(

I'm just glad it's being worked on! Mark's quality has been superb so I have no doubt the wait will be worth it.

Well, since it's a slow news day, how is everyone planning to fill out their Eisenkern ranges?

I'm using Dust Tactics Axis walkers for my vehicles. I plan to use Bones characters, specifically the Time Agents, as my commissars, after a head swap or hat addition. WGF WW2 Germans will be my conscripts or navy officers. I'll be using Izamu the Armor from Malifaux as a base for my Darth Vader general Darth Vader. My Emperor figure will be played by Dungeon Crawler Mini's beggar. And then I am going to use Star Wars Command figures and some dollar-store superheroes for my primarchs. (I need primarchs.)

Here is my preliminary primarch design for a conversion based on the Star Wars Command Sand Trooper:

Feth, you can actually draw!

Izamu as a general is just... so completely badass I have to steal that idea.

Well, I asked for an update at the facebook site, now to see if there is an answer for good or bad.

I like the severed homer head

Okay! got a reply today!

DreamForge-Games Just waiting for a shipment of T1's to arrive before posting an update. But yes, there is a lot of work and time involved in finalizing each kit and when you have 15 out the door at once it can get overwhelming.
Like · Reply · 6 minutes ago

I have a question that I hope someone can answerer. What's up with the supply? I missed the KS and want to buy some transports but they have never gone in stock. Any idea when this stuff will go up for sale?

griffen127 wrote:
I have a question that I hope someone can answerer. What's up with the supply? I missed the KS and want to buy some transports but they have never gone in stock. Any idea when this stuff will go up for sale?

Still not available, the transports are still in production as well as a few other sets. What's available is listed on many etailer websites like Marks own store, or you can get the discounted through places like thewarstore.com and miniaturemarket.com.

 Theophony wrote:

griffen127 wrote:
I have a question that I hope someone can answerer. What's up with the supply? I missed the KS and want to buy some transports but they have never gone in stock. Any idea when this stuff will go up for sale?

Still not available, the transports are still in production as well as a few other sets. What's available is listed on many etailer websites like Marks own store, or you can get the discounted through places like thewarstore.com and miniaturemarket.com.

Also Mark said the transports and other kist were supposed to be slated for November releases, at best we are looking late November, early December.

 shasolenzabi wrote:


Also Mark said the transports and other kist were supposed to be slated for November releases, at best we are looking late November, early December.

Did he confirm he was talking about 2014?

 warboss wrote:

 shasolenzabi wrote:


Also Mark said the transports and other kist were supposed to be slated for November releases, at best we are looking late November, early December.

Did he confirm he was talking about 2014?

For us to see these by Christmas id think mark would have to have the prints in hand by now. Even with shipping by air.

As I said at the time, it was laughable and clearly impossible bs being fed to him by WGF at best - even as soon as he posted it. I just can't fathom why he believed it enough to post it.

 Azazelx wrote:
As I said at the time, it was laughable and clearly impossible bs being fed to him by WGF at best - even as soon as he posted it. I just can't fathom why he believed it enough to post it.

Because, some people like to have good faith in those that they are working with, people of integrity make the mistake of thinking that those working with them are of the same mind set, and then get the sad realization that it is not the case and at best over extend their word to deeds ratio, at worst, out right hood wink them.

Like I said, Best case is late Nov/Ear December, but Az is likely right about 2015.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

It's so beautiful...

Someone needs to cast this up.

More sketches and notes please!

 shasolenzabi wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
As I said at the time, it was laughable and clearly impossible bs being fed to him by WGF at best - even as soon as he posted it. I just can't fathom why he believed it enough to post it.

Because, some people like to have good faith in those that they are working with, people of integrity make the mistake of thinking that those working with them are of the same mind set, and then get the sad realization that it is not the case and at best over extend their word to deeds ratio, at worst, out right hood wink them.

Like I said, Best case is late Nov/Ear December, but Az is likely right about 2015.

Yeah, I'm on the Az bandwagon with being dubious about pre-CNY. I'm hoping I'm wrong and we get them in early January, but hope and production schedules are usually not a good mix.

It's incredible that there has been no release of product for the whole of 2014. Would it have been worthwhile to release what was done this summer and make money off of it to help offset the higher shipping cost?

I guess we'll never know, but it's an interesting thought experiment.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Spoiler:

It's so beautiful...

Someone needs to cast this up.

More sketches and notes please!

I'll pass. It doesn't match the more realistic scifi styling the current stuff has and matches (unsurprisingly) more of the senseless scribbles that Blanche is known for over on 40k. That an the Star Wars Stormtrooper helmet is just too much. I really can't tell if that is a parody of a bunch of that other stuff (including the toughest girls) though.

Oh, it was definitely a parody!

I mean, look at the artist and then who wanted one cast up!

 Alpharius wrote:
Oh, it was definitely a parody!

I mean, look at the artist and then who wanted one cast up!

Now that I actually took the time to read the note writing as opposed to just looking overall at the style, it is indeed obvious.

I did go to the Dreamforge Facebook online store, they have the box art for all three Valkir kits and the Hanomag, but the price is at 0.00 so still not in yet.