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Made in us
Killer Klaivex




Oceanside, CA

Just ideas I was kicking around for a 8th edition wood elf army book rewrite.

Army-wide rules:
Swift Strider (elf only): The hit and run tactics of wood elves lend toward rapid assaults and equally rapid withdraws.
Borne of the Woods: Forest Strider, additionally, when a wood elf unit moves into a mysterious woods, they may roll twice and choose which result the forest is.
Feint: All fast cav and skirmishers that flee on the first round of combat automatically rally after completing their fallback move. If they are caught, they are wiped out as normal.

That's the basis for the list. I'm hoping to give it a rapid skirmishing feel, with elf units bouncing into and out of combat. My plan is to pin down the feel of the army first, then the lore, then round out the list from there.

-Matt

 thedarkavenger wrote:

So. I got a game with this list in. First game in at least 3-4 months.
 
   
Made in us
Wrack Sufferer





The other side of the internet

Swift stride is already a rule, and making a rule with a similar name would lead to confusion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wait, just realized what you mean there. Forget I said anything. Tired. I'm going to bed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/28 12:48:23


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RAGE

Be sure to use logic! Avoid fallacies whenever possible.
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Made in us
Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols






Chino Hills, CA

Feint seems a tad bit, OP I guess.

Maybe something like "After completing a successful flee charge reaction, if the unit passes it's Ld check to rally, the unit may make a free wheel and make a normal move (or march)"

Some people play to win, some people play for fun. Me? I play to kill toy soldiers.
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Regular Dakkanaut




I would love to see a rule called "Forest Kin" that allows Wood Elves to move freely through or in any type of forest with no penalty or damage etc.
   
Made in us
Killer Klaivex




Oceanside, CA

Cryonicleech wrote:Feint seems a tad bit, OP I guess.

Maybe something like "After completing a successful flee charge reaction, if the unit passes it's Ld check to rally, the unit may make a free wheel and make a normal move (or march)"


Feint looks great on paper, but didn't pan out that way for the wood elves.
The only time it's really useful is in a disrupted battle line, where by fleeing you can line up some sort of sweet charge on your next turn. The thing is, without the ability for skirmishers to break steadfast, and with the cost of fast cav, that "sweet charge" is typically only going to net you a chariot or warmachine.

Even tried a layered defense, with 3 units of 12 dryads, 6 wide. The idea was that the front unit charges/gets charged, does some damage, and breaks, flees, and auto rallies behind the other 2 units. The unit it was fighting would pursue into the next line of defense, and this would continue until the offender had been dwindled down.
First unit got hit, fled and got away. 2nd unit got over-run into. 3rd unit marched out to the flank. 2nd unit broke, got away, and the survivors of the 1st unit got over-run into. 3rd unit counter charges into the rear. Dryads win combat for awhile, until help shows up. All looked pretty effective. But my opponent adapted quickly.
Same thing on the other side of the table 2 turns later, except when he broke a unit on my turn, he didn't pursue, he reformed to face the threat on the flank and drove them off, pursing out of range of my other units.

I'd have to try this rule with very large units of fast cav to see if it can be broken. Then again, with large units of fast cav, you're looking at a very large point investment that you close lose should you fail to get away. Odds of getting away are not super, even with swift strider.

-Matt





 thedarkavenger wrote:

So. I got a game with this list in. First game in at least 3-4 months.
 
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





I tried this a little while ago. Considered giving them the "Hit and Run" ability that War Hawk/Terradon Riders have (they're the only ones, right?). It's...really not that great.

I could see Fire and Flee! making a comeback as a charge reaction.

Really, the problem with Wood Elves is that their hard counter is cheap infantry in big blocks. Which most armies can manage, while the others can only regular-counter stuff. The concept of Wood Elves is "highly skilled but sorely outnumbered snipers/guerrilla fighters", which doesn't translate well into 8th. Similar to how the Dwarf concept of "shield wall + gun line" is very linear and boring. I'd suggest an overhaul on the very concepts that make up these armies.

 
   
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God





Inactive

I would think its fluffy and fun to have:

all tree types have bark skin armor and regen ( dryad 5+ treekin 4+ treeman 3+ )

-1 needed to cast with lore of life

no penalties from using forest

can march near enemies without leadership test if within forest

all hits on a 6 gets auto wound and armor piercing rule ( or just the AP for troop archers ) and way watcher get auto wound as they are experienced with knowing which weak spot to shoot.

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Wrack Sufferer





The other side of the internet

Here's a couple:

All wood elf and spirit models are stubborn in forests.

Camoflage: wood elves in forests are hard to spot as they blend into their surroundings. When charging wood elves in a forest, roll 3d6 and take the two lowest dice plus your movement for the charge distance.

All wood elf bows gain +1S when the enemy is within half range.

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RAGE

Be sure to use logic! Avoid fallacies whenever possible.
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Made in us
Killer Klaivex




Oceanside, CA

Skirmishers are already stubborn in woods.
As for steadfast, I was thinking of a few solutions for that.
1) Wardancers having a dance that removes steadfast.
2) Spell (hex) that turns any terrain into a forest for the rest of the game (infantry lose ranks and steadfast in woods). Units in the terrain while it transforms take a S3 hit on every model.
3) Spell (wildgrowth, hex) makes an area of woods until the start of your next magic phase, (12"/24" range, 5" woods).
4) Weapon: (counts as halberd) branch of the great oak. Every wound inflicted negates 1 point of rank bonus and 1 rank for determining steadfast. Wielder gains +1 scaly skin.

Magic lore would be rounded out with 2 augments, 2 direct damage, and a vortex.

-Matt

 thedarkavenger wrote:

So. I got a game with this list in. First game in at least 3-4 months.
 
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





Giving a unit an ability to straight-up negate Steadfast is probably too far in the other direction.

I like the terrain-to-forest spell idea, though. Saw some other things similar to that. Be glad to offer up what I've got so far.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I don't know WE much at all.

I think Swift Strider [all] doesn't really match them. I don't see them barrelling into combat.

I think take a page from Dwarfs but with different rationale.

Relentless: may march w/o LD test even enemies within 8". That's the speedy part and it's an exact Dwarf rule (and other items/units have it elsewhere).

And keep the fleeing part of Swiftstride where they can roll 3D6 and discard lowest when fleeing. But not pursuing or charging. Of all the armies that would have a blanket Swiftstride, bloodthirsty Daemons, Beastmen, Marauders, Ogres I could picture doing that, and in fact, some do with items/banners. Not frilly WE in grass skirts.

They are Tau with Krootox. Tau aren't going to charge in. And the Treedudes are too slow for it to make sense.

Those aren't BIG rule changes, but you could give them a whirl. If that didn't work, try upping their base movement to 6.

   
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Killer Klaivex




Oceanside, CA

DukeRustfield wrote:I don't know WE much at all.
I think Swift Strider [all] doesn't really match them. I don't see them barrelling into combat.
I think take a page from Dwarfs but with different rationale.
Relentless: may march w/o LD test even enemies within 8". That's the speedy part and it's an exact Dwarf rule (and other items/units have it elsewhere).
And keep the fleeing part of Swiftstride where they can roll 3D6 and discard lowest when fleeing. But not pursuing or charging. Of all the armies that would have a blanket Swiftstride, bloodthirsty Daemons, Beastmen, Marauders, Ogres I could picture doing that, and in fact, some do with items/banners. Not frilly WE in grass skirts.
They are Tau with Krootox. Tau aren't going to charge in. And the Treedudes are too slow for it to make sense.
Those aren't BIG rule changes, but you could give them a whirl. If that didn't work, try upping their base movement to 6.


The idea of swift strider was to represent the elf agility to get into and out of combat quickly with lightning fast assaults. The idea is that a skirmishing agile unit like woodelves would be quicker to jump into, or out of combat, than say Ogres, Marauders or Beastmen all ranked up in battle lines. It's a lot easier to start a sprint in a skirt than it is in platemail.
All the trees don't get swift strider either, as it only applies to skirmishers (so just dryads, who are M5 I6 and blend into the surroundings very effectively).
I didn't want to up the base movement, because I did not want to increase marching distances or maximum charges; I only wanted to shift the bell to the right of center.

-Matt

 thedarkavenger wrote:

So. I got a game with this list in. First game in at least 3-4 months.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I know what you're saying. I just see their hit-and-run being non-melee based. Robin Hood, shoot from the trees and run. And swiftstride's great bonus is charging. Charging elves. High Elves, I can see doing that. They're wacky super elite combatants who are given a sword at birth and can swing a 7 foot sword faster than a Daemon Prince swings a dagger.

But Ogres/Beasts ranked up in battle lines? Have you read their lore???

Daemons, specifically bloodletters, litterally the most bloodthirsty unit in the entirety of WHFB can get an icon to charge +D6 on their FIRST charge. OR can get an icon to march within 8". One or the other. You're putting WE in that category. It just doesn't make sense to me.

But you're saying you dont want to increase movement to increase charging. Swift increases avg charge distance. And flee distance...and pursue distance. They're out-blooding bloodletters. They're maniacs.

   
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As a Wood Elf player I can list a few things that need to be fixed, or I would like to see in either a new book or FAQ (since it seems like how WE were ignored from 4th-7th edition it may very well be happening again).

-Forest Spirts get the normal 5+ ward save, no "magical attacks ignore this ward save" that alone would make us more competitive and against some armies (demons in particular) we would actually have a chance to hold out.

-Lower cost of Wardancers to 15pts. If High Elf special choices are 15pts. each and can do so much more (through variety of choices) no way a T3, 6+ Ward Save skirmisher should be more points. Also like adding a dance that ignores steadfast so we can actually live against big blocks of infantry but maybe add another dance that increases strength by +1 or +2 so they can deal with armies like Ogres. With those 2 dances they can be left at 18pts. a model.

-Make Eternal Guard either cheaper or give them something that can make them worth 12pts. each. Yes they have 5WS but with T3 and a +5 armor save they just are not worth taking unless its with a 75+ magical item that gives the unit a 5+ ward save. I say make their 5+ armor save a ward save so they always have a 5+ save which could be attributed to their eternal guard abilities, otherwise leave them the same in every other statistical category.

-Fix the useless Lore of Athel Loren. Most Wood Elf players agree that the lore as it currently is, is plain terrible, especially when comparing it to the newest army books lores. Fix the Lore of Athel Loren.

-Waywatchers are no longer worth 24pts. a model since the FAQ. Granted killing blow is amazing against a wide variety of armies and being -2 to hit is also great (unless its by an organ gun) but losing the ability to appear anywhere on the board and being T3 with no save of any kind makes me argue this. To make them worth their 24pts I have this Idea, along with allowing them to appear anywhere on the board like they used to be able to:

"Hawkeye: Waywatchers are the best archers in the warhammer world and have the ability to place arrows in eyes, throats and other vital parts of their opponent despite their size. If scoring a 6 to wound against monsters, monstrous infantry and monstrous cavalry roll a D3 to see how many wounds are inflicted. Your opponent may make a save with -2 to their armor save value."

-Give EVERY unit/Character in the army Glade Guard bows. This would make units like Glade Riders, Warhawk Riders, Scouts ect. more worth their point values. Otherwise lower the points considerably on both.

-Warhawk Riders, if not given Glade Guard bows give them something to make them worth 40pts each! Terradon riders are ten points cheaper and have the ability to inflict alot of wounds by flying over and dropping rocks on a unit, I was thinking make Warhawks T4 first of all, and maybe instead of dropping rocks (kind of a lizardmen thing) give them two shots each with their bows.

These are just a few changes that I think should be made and I think none of them are OP as they all would be balanced out with their super high point cost or make them able to just be able to compete against all armies in the warhammer world.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/01/31 23:03:43


3000pts. Astra Militarium: 105th Elysian ODST
3000pts. Tau Farsight Enclaves: Battlesuit Spearhead
3000pts. Horus Heresy: Raven Guard Strike Force 
   
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Evasive Eshin Assassin





@Duke:

- High Elves don't need to move their feet quickly because of said reasons. Being bred for combat and being nimble are two different concepts.

- Ogres/Beastmen form ranks. Not very tight ones, and they don't march in time, but they form ranks. Enough to get rank bonuses.

- If you're going to say that Swiftstride = bloodthirsty, hence Bloodletters should get it before anyone else, I would suggest that Swiftstride = fast, and nothing more. Frenzy, I do believe, = bloodlust. And Bloodletters have the extra attack to represent that but not the downside, I guess.

- Swiftstride doesn't increase maximum distances; that was the point. But it does increase the average. Again, the point.

Dryads, War Dancers, and Wild Riders are all some combination of crazed/hateful/rabid guerrilla combatants. Making their stats better won't help much; what they need is a set of rules to make their style work in 8th, or a re-tooling of the purpose of Wood Elf armies.

 
   
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Hunting Glade Guard



Bluffs and hills of Wisconsin

One of the big problems with Wood Elves in the new edition is that they are meant to be SCARY.

Probably more so than things like Beastmen and Ogres because the Wood Elves actually know how to use psychology as a weapon. Arguably their best is defense is that everyone in the Old World knows that Athel Loren is haunted and that the trees can come alive and start eating people.

Unfortunately nobody cares about Fear in this edition, nor do blocks of infantry really care about getting ambushed on three sides, as long as they have more men.

Warp has the right of it. The elite but soft infantry backed up by a few monsters is less than effective this edition. Here are a few things I can think of to fix this:

-Overhall the Lore of Athel Loren. Focus on misdirection and making the environment hazardous, but especially give them a devastating 6th spell

-Give them access to something like Stonethrowers

-Keep them pricey, but make a few units appalling in melee (these guys are as good as their kin after all, the difference being that High and Dark Elves are highly trained and Wood Elves are feral). I like the idea of high risk/high reward tactics for these guys and Dryads, War Dancers, and Wild Riders should get an "Oh crap" reaction from the opponent instead of being largely ignored

-And a bit off topic, raise the price of Chaos Marauders and Skaven slaves. I'm okay with units being good, but nothing should be so good that it's mandatory.
   
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Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit





South Africa

what would the Uper large Wood Elf unit be thou?... I hope a forest dragon, (or a forest Dragon model at least). I hope if it is a tree that it is a Awesome one

Shadow Legion's lost warmachine http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/382008.page

2750 point - Space marine
750 point - Ork
1250 point - Wood Elves
750 point Brettonia
 
   
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Greenleaves12 wrote:Probably more so than things like Beastmen and Ogres because the Wood Elves actually know how to use psychology as a weapon.

Now you're being silly.

Beastmen are an entire race of rapists and mutilators. They actually stop fighting and bend over and begin eating the person lying on the ground in front of them. Their lore is absolutely filled with it. A sniper is psychological warfare, and pretty scary. Torturing someone in front of their friends because nothing on earth makes you happier, is a WHOLE different category. Daemons have fear/terror because they're supernatural weirdness, but all they really are going to do is kill you. Skulls for the whatever. They'll probably even kill you fast. Ogres also have a bad habit of eating during fighting. Or eating during anything. I don't care how scary your trees are or what sound the wind makes when it blows through them, or even if they walk around, having someone pull the guts out of the guy next to you and stuff them in his mouth as he laughs maniacally is orders of magnitude scarrier than warpaint and pointy ears.

   
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Hunting Glade Guard



Bluffs and hills of Wisconsin

@Duke I wasn't really implying that Wood Elves and Forest Spirits are more worthy of fear than Demons or Ogres, although that is entirely subjective. I only meant that they are more aware of it as a tool on the battlefield and probably more skilled at using it due to being the most mobile army in the game. They can surround the enemy, strike hard, and then disappear. Rinse and repeat a few times and the average milita will be trying to leave the field of battle. Ogres and Demons usually just fall back on inflicting massive blunt force trauma and the like, which in their defense, works out pretty well.
   
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I don't think that's using fear. It's using tactics. Daemons/Beastmen/Ogre tactics are kind of overwhelming firepower because they are all elite and hardy troops who are melee monsters.

If Wood Elves tried to fight like D/B/O they would get massacred. But a 12 foot hungry ogre running at you with the desire to eat your face while you're still alive and invisible arrows coming from the woods...I mean really. They aren't even close in terms of fight-or-flight reactions or peeing your pants.

Everything in this game can kill you. It comes down to which way is "best." I'd take an arrow in the chest any day of the week as opposed to standing toe-to-toe with a bloodcrazed Minotaur.

   
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Hunting Glade Guard



Bluffs and hills of Wisconsin

What I'm trying to get at is that the Wood Elves often win, or at least the way they did in 7th edition, was by psychologically breaking the opponent and making them flee from the battle. Unlike Warriors of Chaos or Ogres they don't have the killing power to destroy the enemy to the man.

There are really two ways that fear is represented in WHF. There is the "these guys are really good at killing/we're in a vulnerable position" of winning close combat and forcing the enemy to break or "this is a hostile divine being and my mortal mind can't really cope" of Fear and Terror.

Wood Elves had access to both in 7th and those were their most effective weapons. As you said they can't just pile into melee like the, well, uncivilized armies, and hope to get in enough swings. They need to use a bit of art to break the opponents mind. That, I think, is the core of their fluff.
   
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Terrifying Treeman






The Fallen Realm of Umbar

How about a rule along the lines of: If a WE unit inflicts wounds in the shooting phase and at least half of the unit is within a forest, than it causes a panic test no matter how many casualties are caused (each unit will inflict a spearate test).

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Killer Klaivex




Oceanside, CA

gmaleron wrote:
-Forest Spirts get the normal 5+ ward save, no "magical attacks ignore this ward save" ...

-Lower cost of Wardancers to 15pts. If High Elf special choices are 15pts. each and can do so much more (through variety of choices) no way a T3, 6+ Ward Save skirmisher should be more points. Also like adding a dance that ignores steadfast so we can actually live against big blocks of infantry...

-Make Eternal Guard either cheaper or give them something...

-Fix the useless Lore of Athel Loren.

-Waywatchers are no longer worth 24pts. a model since the FAQ. Granted killing blow is amazing against a wide variety of armies and being -2 to hit is also great (unless its by an organ gun) but losing the ability to appear anywhere on the board and being T3 with no save of any kind makes me argue this.

-Warhawk Riders, if not given Glade Guard bows give them something to make them worth 40pts each!


Alright, here's a breakdown of some things tests.
1) Forest spirits lose immune to psych, they are actually better without it. Lets you choose to flee as a reaction. Save stays as vs non-magic only. The trend in GW is removing magical attacks from units, which in turn is making that save better.
2) Wardancer with remove steadfast was tested, and it's too extreme. Either too good, or too bad, not middle ground enough. New dance being tested gives opponent -1 leadership. Flanking wardancers makes this -2; and dancers in the rear makes it -3. (Characters get their own unique dances.)
3) Eternal Guard 5+ armor and 5+ parry, very durable for an elf, along with extra attack and fights in extra ranks (which is pretty much what they had before), WS5, 10 points.
4) Lore: Yeah, everybody knows the old lore sucks.
5) Waywatchers being able to march and shoot is a nice bonus in 8th edition, which I often see people over-looking. I've given them a trap's rule, which works just like gnoblar trappers. That's been enough to make them worth having. May give them the option to trade killing blow for sniper.
6) Warhawks we've been experimenting with. So far, I like "Rake Dive" the best. If you fly over enemy units, select 1 to rake. That unit take 1 hit for each warhawk in your unit that flew over it. The hit is resolved at the warhawks strength (normally 4), and has the Penetrate ranks special rule. So a unit of 6 would do 6 S4 hits (normal saves), for each KILL (not wound, but kill), you'd get another attack at S3; then S2, and so on. If the unit had it's strength buffed (say, lore of beast) these would start at higher strength. This has made warhawks as much of a threat as terradons are. Because they can keep doing it, it's a harassing unit you cannot ignore. Being T3, it's also a unit that can't overly expose itself to the enemy.

And finally...
7) Treemen strangle roots is a S4 3" template, unit suffering a wound gains ASL until the start of the next wood elf turn.

So far, we've seen that a combination of treeman and warhawks can thin down units to get around steadfast issues, or large blocks of Eternal Guard could be used help out. Wardancing seems to get around steadfast if you can isolate a unit or kill off an enemy BSB.


Anyhow, I'll get a little more testing in, then post a more complete review.
-Matt


 thedarkavenger wrote:

So. I got a game with this list in. First game in at least 3-4 months.
 
   
Made in au
Terrifying Treeman






The Fallen Realm of Umbar

@HawaiiMatt, with the wardancers anti-steadfast dance, for a middle ground kind of placement, maybe make it so that units affected by the dance that are steadfast take the leadership modifiers at half the normal(rounding up), e.g. a unit loses to wardancers by 5, they are steadfast so count as losing by 3

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Horst wrote:This is how trolling happens. A few cheeky posts are made. Then they get more insulting. Eventually, we revert to our primal animal state, hurling feces at each other while shreeking with glee.

 
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





@Matt:
1. Losing Immune to Psychology makes sense tactically. I think that giving them Immune to Fear/Panic/Terror would be better, though. Just in case you brick a test and your killer trees are all "ah! a ghost!". I also think that a straight-up 5+ Ward is reasonable. If there are less units with magical attacks, it'll matter less either way, and giving them any kind of durability versus the scary stuff in the Skaven and Daemon books would probably be fair.
2. That sounds like a solid concept.
3. Less sure about Eternal Guard. 10pts seems pretty cheap compared to Black and Phoenix Guard, and compared to Elves in general (and for a 10pt Stubborn unit with a 5+ Parry save). I think the Wood Elf book would benefit from some cheap ranked infantry, but I think it really goes against the concept of Eternal Guard. I'd like to see them at 15pts, and worth those points. What if they had bows, too?
4. Yes.
5. Waywatchers with traps: good. I'd hate to see them losing Killing Blow for the Sniper rule. What if the champion got Sniper and cost a little more?
6. The rake attack idea is a good one. The best suggestion I've seen for them.
7. Perfect. Treemen with rocks was a decent idea I've seen a lot, but this is much better.

As for who's scary and why, Greenleaves' got it down. There's dread, which involves fear being built up over time, and terror, which is usually more instant, relying on shock. The first is wielded like a scalpel, by the Wood Elves. The second is a brick, held aloft by...basically all of the Forces of Chaos.
Arrows in the woods are not scary. But watching your friends be picked off one by one, by something or someone that won't stand their ground, face you, and give you a chance to prevail against, or at least die trying? That's scary. More so than an ogre eating my friend? No. Less? No. Just: in a different way.

Finally, attached is the last draft of a Wood Elf book a friend of mine was working on.
 Filename Wood Elves.docx [Disk] Download
 Description
 File size 49 Kbytes

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/03 02:18:35


 
   
Made in us
Hunting Glade Guard



Bluffs and hills of Wisconsin

@Matt

1. I don't know about this. I agree that Dryads and Wild Riders should be able to fall back when they need to, but they should still be divine beings. They are essentially demons, they just serve the forest instead of Slannesh or Nurgle. Maybe just give them Hit and Run?

2. The concept is cool, but I've never been crazy about the War Dances, that a group of War Dancers can only bring a fourth of their skill to bear at a time. Especially with the trend of making the game more streamline I think that just making the War Dancers an elite and hard hitting assault unit would be best.

3. I side with Warp on this one. The Wood Elves could use a cheap infantry unit, but it shouldn't be done by basically watering down their Royal Guard. Those guys should be rad. Maybe a cheap Forest Spirit or some beguiled Bretonian peasants?

4. Agreed. I'd like to see their ability to use enchantments and illusions played up. Maybe feature a spell that can make an enemy dazed and march in the wrong direction therefore causing havoc with the battle line?

5. I don't think that everyone in Waywatcher unit needs sniper. Once you kill the enemy's champion what's really left to do? Lethal Shot is useful because it can control what parts of the field expensive and heavily armored units can use, and where they'd best avoid.

6. & 7. These are very good. I like these rules a lot.
   
Made in us
Killer Klaivex




Oceanside, CA

Greenleaves12 wrote:@Matt

1. I don't know about this. I agree that Dryads and Wild Riders should be able to fall back when they need to, but they should still be divine beings. They are essentially demons, they just serve the forest instead of Slannesh or Nurgle. Maybe just give them Hit and Run?

5. I don't think that everyone in Waywatcher unit needs sniper. Once you kill the enemy's champion what's really left to do? Lethal Shot is useful because it can control what parts of the field expensive and heavily armored units can use, and where they'd best avoid.

6. & 7. These are very good. I like these rules a lot.


1) Daemon princes panic and run. Only pure daemon armies are ItP. Since they all cause at least fear, they are unaffected by fear. So then you've just got panic, and the ability to choose to flee. I'd even consider immune to panic, as part of the forest spirit package. I really think dryads need the option of fleeing a charge.

5) Waywatchers would lose killing blow, they'd only lose it if they chose to fire with sniper. So a unit of 6 could take 6 shots at teclis, or 6 shots at short range at those dragon princes with killing blow. Sniper might be too good though; a unit of 10 (240 points), has a pretty good shot at dropping most wizards in the game.

6) I really like the Synergy between Rake and the lore of beast (and a new tree augment).
7) ASL seemed like a good idea on the roots, as it looks like every need book has an ASL granting unit. 3" template vs Artillery die seemed to makes sense too, I didn't like the roots sniping a lone hero quite as effectively as it did (that's what waywatchers are for).

 thedarkavenger wrote:

So. I got a game with this list in. First game in at least 3-4 months.
 
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





Immune to Psychology, especially with Fear, is more of a liability than a bonus. You'd have the risk of being unable to rally after a Flee! reaction, but I'd still like to see Dryads that are, ya' know, capable of choosing to not engage a huge mob of goblins head-on. I've seen the Hit and Run concept applied to them, and it works. But removing Immune to Psychology would be easier. I support giving them Immune to Panic, though. I doubt anyone's going to say "aw dude no way that's OP".

Waywatchers getting to choose Sniper or Killing Blow per shot? That's a wicked cool idea. 10 of them would hit ~7, wound ~4-2 times, depending on Toughness...that's not including Ward saves. At T3, no save, and 20+pts/model, I think that's more than fair.

I was going to suggest the Roots causing a reduction in Movement/WS/I instead of ASL, but it would be more complicated, and it would be better for Wood Elves, and thus more poorly received .

 
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




My take:

Forest Spirits: True Ward.

Spellsinger, lore of life, beasts as well

Branchwraith, lore of Beasts if caster, grants ASF to dryads akin to a slaanesh herald. This would give Dryads a chance to be S5/T5 with re-rolls. Rather than RnF Dryads or give them back Aspects it seems a fair change. Someone suggested to me on the weekend as a bound spell Throne of Vines would be a good thing for a BW so maybe that instead? I like mine though.

Glade Guard: shoot through cover (or some modifier so they don't suffer minus -1 for shooting through (friendly) units/forests, etc

Dryads, either make them RnF or make them vicious again on the charge (perhaps reform on the charge?)

Eternal Guard, leave as they are but for 6 PPM. Any more points and we won't see them fielded.

Wardancers, S4, ASF and 4+ ward. chance for either +1A or KB on the charge. At 18 PPM and Skirmish people will go back to being pretty scared of them.

Warhawk Riders: Pretty iconic unit historically, should be able to attack unit akin to Screamers or enemy char as a "fly by" rule.

Waywatchers: Geeze they should have been 20 points last edition. At this point they should be maybe 15-17 points. Champion having sniper would be unique as it's still just one shot with normal modifiers and KB would be entertaining.

Scouts: 15 points. 5-man unit is 75 points which is fine.

Glade Guard Bows: thing of the past, all bows fire at S4 short range. In 6th/7th ed that would be been devastating, at this point there is a reason people only take GG.

Treeman: as is, 250 points or less.

Treekin: I wouldn't have had a problem with them compared to Krox, Minotaurs but the VC Ogres blew things out of the water. 65 PPM unless facing VC in which case 35 PPM >.<

Great Eagles, move to special or give them back 2-1.

Orion: 225 points as is, or make him obnoxiously over the top. My 240 point Beastlord will drop him in two rounds and at 335 points for a doombull Orion has NO chance. Never before have I seen such a useless ruleset.

Bring back all the missing 4th ed (even if that make Drycha a unit champ again) characters.
   
 
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