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do you get a magic resistance save from spells like the dwellers below or the dreaded thirteenth?

No. both spells state no saves of any kind allowed.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think a better question is, will the shielding scroll give a 4+ ward save to a spell that states no saves of any kind?

No save of any kind means just that. No armor save means just that. There is no, "with no ward saves allowed." (that I've ever seen) It goes:

no armor save (but still ward OR regeneration)
no saves allowed (no armor, ward, regeneration)

Flaming, of course, will always remove regeneration saves.

And some abilities remove Look Out, Sir saves.


But a shorthand to armor/ward/regen is it has to cause a WOUND for it to actually save. Spells that don't cause wounds, there's nothing to roll against.

I think magic resistance can be taken only on wounds cause by spells, so if a spell is a hex like -d3 toughness etc that wouldnt give you a ward save from magic resistance or a normal ward save as far as I am concerned!

Yes. See Duke's post.

man they made M.R. suck

No, they made uber spells uber.

No one uses bolt throwers because cannons are vastly better now in 8th. But bolt throwers don't suck. They just suck by comparison. If they took off the 6th spell in every list, MR would jump in power tremendously.

Here we made the 6th spells cause wounds with no saves allowed.
Dosen't help MR none, but it helps them be horde killers without them nuking important models so easily.

Tell that to a S3 Caster Lord who has just been killed by the Dwellers Below, or an Ogre Slaughtermaster who fell into a Pit of Shades.

Vulcan wrote:Tell that to a S3 Caster Lord who has just been killed by the Dwellers Below, or an Ogre Slaughtermaster who fell into a Pit of Shades.

At least the Ogre SM gets a LoS! (usually) vs Pit of Shades...

Good point, template and all that.

Doesn't help the Prophetess in her bunker of... well, anything.

And that's the second reason I hate Dwellers. The first being that the best wizard-sniping spell is also the best horde-trimming spell, and that it's in the best defensive Lore. Talk about versatility.

The Uber Spells ignore MR, and that's mostly okay with me. I mean, if a unit has MR, I think they might deserve to lose 13-50% less models, since they're still losing models and they paid for that special rule, but okay.
The problem I have with MR is that it is also ignored by Hexes and spells that don't specifically "target" the unit. They're resistant to magic, right? But that only means they don't get as badly burned my magical fire; they're just as susceptible to getting weakened by magic diseases or tangled in magic nets. Magic Resistance ought to count for something beyond magic missiles, especially since so few people use them anyway.

But again, so few people use them because they aren't uber. Why do 4 wounds when you can do 30?

Magic Missiles make up the vast majority of hurt-you spells that aren't the ubers. Buffs and hexes are fine. Those are flavor and strategy and it's magic vs. magic dispelling (and you can just turn it off next round). You can't turn off dead--usually.

Sure, but none of that address the fact that something called MAGIC resistance applies to so little of magic.

That, and if I ever have a choice between a magic missile and an augment/hex, I'm going with the later, because they're basically always better. Direct damage is a sad family of spells in general.
I'm fine with casting big spells before little ones, but I wish that units with innate protection against magic were...protected against magic. Bonus dispel dice was a cool idea. It didn't cover everything, but I think it's a better choice than improved Ward saves.