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When I first started playing 40k I had no idea what I was doing, I just was buying models of all sorts and thought it was like pokemon or something... that was a long time ago (8 or 9 years) but still now that I see the shift at my FLGS turning to warmachine and hordes I'm starting to spend some time glancing at the wall dedicated to privateer press stuff... I'm quite intrigued.

However, now, like most I can't afford to just start grabbing models that look cool and hope they turn out to be a decent army, so if anyone can point me to a really basic intro to this game or even just fill me in themselves I'd be very appreciative. The privateer press website doesn't seem too helpful like the GW site is/used to be (all those "GETTING STARTED WITH: articles helped a lot back in the day).

I'm pretty sure I'm leaning towards Menoth- one of the characters... protector of the flame? (or something similar) looked awesome to paint.

Also from what I gather, warmachine and hordes are interchangable? They're not two seperate games? I'd really love some clarification about that!

One specific question I have is do both these games/this game (still hazy there) only use D6's or are there all kinds of die used... I know I see a lot of force specific tokens.

I'm sure you guys get a ton of "new player here" threads and I'm sorry for adding to the masses

aleck wrote:Also from what I gather, warmachine and hordes are interchangable? They're not two seperate games? I'd really love some clarification about that!

They are separate but fundamentally compatible games that came be played with each other. The core engine is entirely the same the only *major* difference being the way Warjacks (Warmachine) and Warbeasts (Hordes) operate which is not at all the same. The power generation mechanics of the games central combat-leading mages (Warcasters & Warlocks) are also very different.

In fact they're so similar most people don't bother to think of them as separate and just refer to the whole shebang as "Warmahordes".

Thematically war machine focuses on the industrialized nations of the world, while hordes focuses on the more tribal or barbaric populations.

One specific question I have is do both these games/this game (still hazy there) only use D6's or are there all kinds of die used... I know I see a lot of force specific tokens.

The game uses only d6s. Sometimes you treat a d6 as a d3. You won't ever need roll more than 5d6, most things are 2d6.

I'm pretty sure I'm leaning towards Menoth- one of the characters... protector of the flame? (or something similar) looked awesome to paint.

Feora, you're probably thinking of (lady with a Flamethrower-spear). She is a warcaster which acts as the central leader of your armies.

She is very competitive from a game-play standpoint.

Protectorate is a fun function that tends to have below average Stat lines, but better than average buffs. They depend heavily on their support pieces and they're a fairly slow moving faction.

However you'll feel right home coming from 40k. They're just as big on burning witches and crusading against heretics as the IoM.

The two games are cross-compatable. There area few things in one that don't affect the other and vice-versa, but more or less they are the same. They use the same mechanics, and rules with the same names work the same in both games. The main difference is the resource mechanics between the games and what sort of "central" bits are called and run in relation to that.

As for extras, just d6's. There aren't any other sort of dice in the game. And tokens are used to count resources and mark ongoing effects. The faction ones are most often used, but folks have and will use their own too.

And stuff.

There are some very good primers on the game and some of the factions stickied to the top of this page. I suggest that you check them out if you haven't already done so.

Thank you Chongara, Blaque, Leo

Good to know about what you said about Feora Protector of Flame, why are there two versions of her? Do they function similarly?

Because after being pointed to the articles on dakka (which still seem to require a bit more knowledge of the rules for me to grasp completely) I found a list that revolves around Feora (and gathering from what you guys said all lists revolve around a named character so that's common I'm sure) but the list has a different model/slighty different name to the one I was looking at...

Is the fifty dollar starter box a good start for a list with Feora in it? Or should I just get her and some Daughters of the Flame and one of the warjacks that's recommended by the article?


edit: my FLGS has a league for at least warmachine, but does that mean hordes and warmachine players are in the same league? Because I think there's only one league... is that normal?



Thanks again!

aleck wrote:Thank you Chongara, Blaque, Leo

Good to know about what you said about Feora Protector of Flame, why are there two versions of her? Do they function similarly?

Characters in the game can evolve and gain new sets of abilities. When
that happens, you can use either version of the character but never both
at the same time since they're considered the same person. The Priestess
lights everyone on fire, and then charges to deal the finishing blows herself.

The Protector of the Flame is her epic version and has some abilities
that can benefit 'jacks. She makes her 'jacks faster, she can bond to one
warjack and make it light things on fire, and she has a self teleportation
spell. It's only 3", but sometimes that's all you need. Once per game, she
gets extra focus based on how many things her army has lit on fire.

edit: my FLGS has a league for at least warmachine, but does that mean hordes and warmachine players are in the same league? Because I think there's only one league... is that normal?

Yes, that's normal.

Oh okay thanks!, the more I read the more I understand that it's not two brands of games but two styles of armies.

As for Feora I'm assuming the epic version is more points? Or are they completely different skill sets, just under the same character name? Using the model that got me interested in the game would be a wargaming dream come true!

I'm finding all kinds of stuff about this game and I haven't read anything I haven't disliked. I'm thinking that this will be perfect to pass the time until Tau are updated- who knows maybe i'll like this more!

Epic warcasters are more or less points depending on balance.

They're not intended to be more powerful than their original
versions. They're just different.

Think of epic warcasters as completely seperate units to their standard versions. There are no additional requirements or anything for taking one.

All it means, is that if you ever play a very large game with multiple warcasters per side, you can't have both versions of the same warcaster on one side.

malfred wrote:Epic warcasters are more or less points depending on balance.

They're not intended to be more powerful than their original
versions. They're just different.

Keep in mind this is the intent. Like any other game designers don't always hit spot on. In case of Feora her epic version is on the whole better, you'll see her creep in competitive lists more than her first incarnation. For some others the opposite is true the original version of Severius (another protectorate warcaster) shines in more situations than his epic one does.

aleck wrote:Thank you Chongara, Blaque, Leo

Good to know about what you said about Feora Protector of Flame, why are there two versions of her? Do they function similarly?

Because after being pointed to the articles on dakka (which still seem to require a bit more knowledge of the rules for me to grasp completely) I found a list that revolves around Feora (and gathering from what you guys said all lists revolve around a named character so that's common I'm sure) but the list has a different model/slighty different name to the one I was looking at...

Is the fifty dollar starter box a good start for a list with Feora in it? Or should I just get her and some Daughters of the Flame and one of the warjacks that's recommended by the article?


edit: my FLGS has a league for at least warmachine, but does that mean hordes and warmachine players are in the same league? Because I think there's only one league... is that normal?



Thanks again!

Honestly, I'd just by the starter box and nothing else to begin with. Give a game or two just running with those few models and then try proxying in a few pieces to see what you like. Proxying is a lot easier in Warmachine & Hordes than in some other games and I generally find players are more open to it (especially with a newbie trying to get their playstyle down).

I made the mistake of picking out a list & playstyle when I first started and it turned out to not really be what I wanted at all.

Well, yeah, it's the intent.

But you can't deny that there are combinations of situations
and models that can make less powerful versions of 'casters
shine.

For example, eKreoss is less flexible than the super well
rounded pKreoss. However, when you're up against an army
that can't be knocked down anyway and is susceptible to
melee attacks, eKreoss shines.

You don't bring the same armies that you bring with one
version of an warcaster. eFeora brings more 'jacks than
pFeora, for instance, because of the difference between
Escort and Engine of Destruction.

And I would also argue that something is wrong if you're only
ever playing with an army's auto-includes. You miss out on a lot
of fun game effects that perform well under the right conditions.

Raptors with everything! That's my rule of thumb as a legion player.

Works for Khador, too: Have spare points? Add more Doom Reavers.

Instead of buying the starter, you might consider buying the 2 player battlebox. It comes with the same miniatures as the starter, plus a 5 man unit of Cinerators (guys with heavy armor, swords and shields) and a rulebook (Also in the box is a Khador army of a caster, 2 jacks, and a 5 man unit of guys that you can use as a 2nd army, or for tradebait).

Even if you do nothing with the Khador, you will be ahead by a bit, since you have the $50 starter box, plus a $35 dollar unit, plus a mini version of the ~$30 rulebook

Thanks everyone!

I am now reading the rulebook and waiting for primer to dry on my first warjack(crusader) and unit (daughters of the flame). I had to order Feora sadly. I have found myself drawn to Warmachine more than I ever have been with 40k so I think I'll be buying a lot of models in the near future with my tax return and just testing out what I like. Hopefully soon I'll be able to return some Menoth-wisdom to this forum!

thanks again!

Norsehawk wrote: It comes with the same miniatures as the starter,

Not true.

It swaps the Revenger light warjack for a Vanquisher heavy warjack.

'Don't need more than 5d6'.

Well, unless you're playing Legion at least.

I have had one Menoth player forget what a Forsaken did, and managed to Blight Shroud her. Some rather low number +12d6 damage - yum.

Also having 2 squads of Striders shoot arrows into a Hydra, then hitting it with Blight Shroud. 16d6 damage. And little bits of Hydra raining down everywhere.

...I sadly just like rolling stupid numbers of dice due to Forsaken.

Outside of the forsaken, I think it caps out at 6d6: weaponmaster charge with an additional damage die effect on vs. a jack or beast (for the location die). pButcher pulls that off by himself, but its normally very rare.

I got up to 5d6 once... I was playing pVlad against Callandra...

2d6+Signs and Portents+Charge+Callandra's Star crossed

Yeah I think Dais is right, Butcher is probably one of the only ones that can reach 6d6 normally...

*misremembered Ashlynn's feat text*

RuneGrey wrote:'Don't need more than 5d6'.

Well, unless you're playing Legion at least.

I have had one Menoth player forget what a Forsaken did, and managed to Blight Shroud her. Some rather low number +12d6 damage - yum.

Also having 2 squads of Striders shoot arrows into a Hydra, then hitting it with Blight Shroud. 16d6 damage. And little bits of Hydra raining down everywhere.

...I sadly just like rolling stupid numbers of dice due to Forsaken.

Amen bro, amen.

Platuan4th wrote:

Norsehawk wrote: It comes with the same miniatures as the starter,

Not true.

It swaps the Revenger light warjack for a Vanquisher heavy warjack.

I stand corrected then, So instead of 2 lights and a heavy, you get 2 heavies and a light, plus a 5 man squad, that makes it even a better value for a potential Menoth player, right?

Norsehawk wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

Norsehawk wrote: It comes with the same miniatures as the starter,

Not true.

It swaps the Revenger light warjack for a Vanquisher heavy warjack.

I stand corrected then, So instead of 2 lights and a heavy, you get 2 heavies and a light, plus a 5 man squad, that makes it even a better value for a potential Menoth player, right?

Correct. The vanquisher also has a place in more lists than a Revenger typically. Sadly they could have chosen just about any infantry unit in the book and had something that's a better overall fit than Cinerators (why not a choir?).

Chongara wrote:Correct. The vanquisher also has a place in more lists than a Revenger typically. Sadly they could have chosen just about any infantry unit in the book and had something that's a better overall fit than Cinerators (why not a choir?).

I'd definitely second that the Vanquisher is a happier pickup than the Revenger. Why the Cinerators? They needed heavy infantry to match up against Khador's Man-o-Wars which also tend not to be fielded in competitive armies. That said, the battle box isn't meant to be picked up by veterans looking to pad their army, they are to introduce newbies to the game. Having a small (numerically) infantry unit that can take a hit and stand toe-to-toe with the warjacks in the box is better for that cause than "These infantry sit back and buff those guys. No, that's all they do."

Hi again guys, I've bought a ton of stuff to start out with (that's my MO- buy a ton of stuff blindly, play around with it- buy needs accurately once I've figured the basics out)

here's what I've have:

eFeora

Bastions
Errants
Daughters
Choir

Vassal x2 (awesome mistake by amazon?)
Hierophant
Covenant
Nicia, Tear of Vengence (looked cool...)

Avatar
Devout
Revenger
Reckoner
Redeemer
Vanquisher

I know I need Temple Flameguard but I had to special order them and their UA and won't have them for a bit. Errants UA also on the way.

Anyway, since you've all been so helpful already, could you guys assist me in making a 15 point list with the stuff I have? I won't embarrass myself by making a list when I've only just read the rules. But I have set up a Press Ganger 'make sure you know the rules" session for Thursday and want to bring something at least decent to play with so I need to know what to prioritize painting-wise!

(also Feora is painted and in my gallery, check it out!)

thanks in advance

edit: just out of curiosity- what kind of learning curve can I expect before I'm doing okay (50/50) in leagues/open table play? (if that's even possible for someone to measure/guess... I'll probably be playing 5-7 hours a week at the FLGS)

edit: just out of curiosity- what kind of learning curve can I expect before I'm doing okay (50/50) in leagues/open table play? (if that's even possible for someone to measure/guess... I'll probably be playing 5-7 hours a week at the FLGS)

Depends who you're playing against. In a more competitive meta (St. Louis, for instance), you'll probably struggle for a couple months before levelling out. In an environment with a lot of newer players, it'll likely be a lot shorter than that, as they've had less time to develop the relevant "muscle memory," for a lack of a better term.

Since you're playing with eFeora, you'll be wanting to run a good amount of Warjacks. The must-haves are a Redeemer (perfect for her bond) and a Devout (her Escort buddy and bullet sponge). From there, the Vanquisher and Reckoner both compete strongly for the heavy slot (The Vanquisher splashes fire about and clears infantry, while the Reckoner beats the crap out of things in melee. Both are 8 points, so pick one by taste), and a minimum Choir rounds you out to an even 15 points.

Laughing Man wrote:Depends who you're playing against. In a more competitive meta (St. Louis, for instance), you'll probably struggle for a couple months before levelling out. In an environment with a lot of newer players, it'll likely be a lot shorter than that, as they've had less time to develop the relevant "muscle memory," for a lack of a better term.

okay that doesn't sound too bad, I'm a gracious 2nd place and even take notes sometimes when just starting out in something. What I really like about my FLGS is that the warmachine league seems to have a LOT of players. I can't wait to get invovled. Tournaments need two casters though (I've read that's standard), so I'm going to have to figure out who else I'm liking! I like what I've read about Harbringer and Thyra.

Laughing Man wrote:Since you're playing with eFeora, you'll be wanting to run a good amount of Warjacks. The must-haves are a Redeemer (perfect for her bond) and a Devout (her Escort buddy and bullet sponge). From there, the Vanquisher and Reckoner both compete strongly for the heavy slot (The Vanquisher splashes fire about and clears infantry, while the Reckoner beats the crap out of things in melee. Both are 8 points, so pick one by taste), and a minimum Choir rounds you out to an even 15 points.

okay sounds great! Is there anything I should know, basic strategies, etc.?