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Part of my Tau armies background has them take over a human world called Cradax and they rename it Neo Sacea. The world has loads of Tau colonists but a substantial human population. What sort of treatment does the Empire normally give to its human subjects. Would the humans be generally loyal and embrace the Greater Good? Would they be allowed to fight for it? I know I could say anything I want but was just curious what the consensus was

"Who knows such things? Only the Oracle".

It's your fluff, so it's your choice.
The general consensus, imho, is the further the system is from Terra, the less influence the Emperor has.
This works both figuratively and literally.

If there's little-to-no Imperial presence then pretty much the citizenry will follow whatever carrot is put in front of them, in this case, the Greater Good.

Entire worlds fall to Chaos in this fashion, just as they're assimilated by the Tau in the name of the Greater Good.

Totalwar1402 wrote:Part of my Tau armies background has them take over a human world called Cradax and they rename it Neo Sacea. The world has loads of Tau colonists but a substantial human population. What sort of treatment does the Empire normally give to its human subjects. Would the humans be generally loyal and embrace the Greater Good? Would they be allowed to fight for it? I know I could say anything I want but was just curious what the consensus was

problem is there has been no consensus for the express purpose of allowing you to make the tau as grimdark (or not) as you want, for example Taros (Imperial Armour 3) just joined and the people were givien good rights and assimilated right in, while Kronus (dawn of war), was supposedly Sterilized and put into reedeuctaion camps, so it's up to you really.
On a personnal note i'd say it's sept dependant, say Bork'an seem the assimilation types, while I could see viorla doing the whole sterelising thing.

Juniperius wrote:

Totalwar1402 wrote:Part of my Tau armies background has them take over a human world called Cradax and they rename it Neo Sacea. The world has loads of Tau colonists but a substantial human population. What sort of treatment does the Empire normally give to its human subjects. Would the humans be generally loyal and embrace the Greater Good? Would they be allowed to fight for it? I know I could say anything I want but was just curious what the consensus was

problem is there has been no consensus for the express purpose of allowing you to make the tau as grimdark (or not) as you want, for example Taros (Imperial Armour 3) just joined and the people were givien good rights and assimilated right in, while Kronus (dawn of war), was supposedly Sterilized and put into reedeuctaion camps, so it's up to you really.
On a personnal note i'd say it's sept dependant, say Bork'an seem the assimilation types, while I could see viorla doing the whole sterelising thing.

Yeah but, wasn't the whole "sterilize and re-educate these pink-skin mofos" thing done AFTER they rebelled against the Empire during the Kronus Crusade?
They were already assimilated before the Crusade began and Lord General Lukas Alexander set out to "free" the Imperial population from the Xenos.
Pretty sure the Tau only resorted to those measures after they won the War (which isn't canon anyway).

Knights-Abhorrent wrote:

Juniperius wrote:

Totalwar1402 wrote:Part of my Tau armies background has them take over a human world called Cradax and they rename it Neo Sacea. The world has loads of Tau colonists but a substantial human population. What sort of treatment does the Empire normally give to its human subjects. Would the humans be generally loyal and embrace the Greater Good? Would they be allowed to fight for it? I know I could say anything I want but was just curious what the consensus was

problem is there has been no consensus for the express purpose of allowing you to make the tau as grimdark (or not) as you want, for example Taros (Imperial Armour 3) just joined and the people were givien good rights and assimilated right in, while Kronus (dawn of war), was supposedly Sterilized and put into reedeuctaion camps, so it's up to you really.
On a personnal note i'd say it's sept dependant, say Bork'an seem the assimilation types, while I could see viorla doing the whole sterelising thing.

Yeah but, wasn't the whole "sterilize and re-educate these pink-skin mofos" thing done AFTER they rebelled against the Empire during the Kronus Crusade?
They were already assimilated before the Crusade began and Lord General Lukas Alexander set out to "free" the Imperial population from the Xenos.
Pretty sure the Tau only resorted to those measures after they won the War (which isn't canon anyway).

i'm not all to familiar with the exact story, i just like to tell him he can have it as grimdark as he wants to.

Juniperius wrote:

Totalwar1402 wrote:Part of my Tau armies background has them take over a human world called Cradax and they rename it Neo Sacea. The world has loads of Tau colonists but a substantial human population. What sort of treatment does the Empire normally give to its human subjects. Would the humans be generally loyal and embrace the Greater Good? Would they be allowed to fight for it? I know I could say anything I want but was just curious what the consensus was

problem is there has been no consensus for the express purpose of allowing you to make the tau as grimdark (or not) as you want, for example Taros (Imperial Armour 3) just joined and the people were givien good rights and assimilated right in, while Kronus (dawn of war), was supposedly Sterilized and put into reedeuctaion camps, so it's up to you really.
On a personnal note i'd say it's sept dependant, say Bork'an seem the assimilation types, while I could see viorla doing the whole sterelising thing.

Well mine were from Sacea but I had them settle in. They also saw Shadowsun as having liberated them from the tyranny of the insane Imperial Guard player at my war-games club. Even had them build a 100ft statue of her in place of the Emperor in their capital and had their troops join the Tau army. I usually take one squad of Gue-Vesa using the old forge world rules. Since my two other armies are WTF evil I figured my Tau would be as close to goody two shoes Tau as you can get. Also the world was conquered and made part of the Empire. That was a really fun campaign we had. The finalle was my 1500pts Tau army annialating a 1500pts Blood Angels army.

doen you can calmly assimilate anything without weird indoctrination shenenigans, you might have to "reeducate" some of the most stubborn ones: e.g. space marines, sisters of battle, commisars and the lot.
However even that can easily be avoided, btw i like your story i have the same type of rivalry with my guard player.

Sisters and Space Marines wouldn't ever turn against the Emperor, unless they're corrupted by the Chaos Gods.
The Imperial Guard are just human though, and human minds are fickle and feeble in the extreme.

Stubborn ones would be Commissars and the such.
In DoW DC there was even a Commissar (IIRC) who would rally Imperials into riots and so forth.
Maybe you could have something like that in your fluff?

A thorn in the side, so to speak.

Juniperius wrote:doen you can calmly assimilate anything without weird indoctrination shenenigans, you might have to "reeducate" some of the most stubborn ones: e.g. space marines, sisters of battle, commisars and the lot.
However even that can easily be avoided, btw i like your story i have the same type of rivalry with my guard player.

Oh lord, please didn't you hear. The Sisters of Battle don't exist in 40k! the blood angels went down fighting, the officers/commisars were caught by linch-mobs due to them using forced conscription and having failed their men utterly; whilst many more simply shot themselves. Basically the Imperials got caught off-guard. Panicked, went Stalingrad times 10 onto the Tau and were sending their civilians against walls of pulse rifle fire. Unsurprisingly many joined the Tau. The war also began because of excessive taxation and drafting of the population to fight (my other army) Hive Fleet Khadrim which was assailing the Tysan sector. So the governor was tempted to join the Tau. But was found out, causing a massive Imperial purge where all of the PDF officers were liquidated. The foriegn Steel legion regiments declared martial law, shooting any demonstrators on sight. A kill team captured the governor and later nailed him to the front a Lemman Russ battle tank. So they were given plenty of reason to revolt and join the Tau.In other words most of the Imperial army were off-worlders and once eliminated the rest of the human populace embraced the Tau as, at worst, the only force that could save them from the Tyranid menace. Thats my reasoning of my background, anyway.

Totalwar1402 wrote:

Juniperius wrote:doen you can calmly assimilate anything without weird indoctrination shenenigans, you might have to "reeducate" some of the most stubborn ones: e.g. space marines, sisters of battle, commisars and the lot.
However even that can easily be avoided, btw i like your story i have the same type of rivalry with my guard player.

Oh lord, please didn't you hear. The Sisters of Battle don't exist in 40k! the blood angels went down fighting, the officers/commisars were caught by linch-mobs due to them using forced conscription and having failed their men utterly; whilst many more simply shot themselves. Basically the Imperials got caught off-guard. Panicked, went Stalingrad times 10 onto the Tau and were sending their civilians against walls of pulse rifle fire. Unsurprisingly many joined the Tau. The war also began because of excessive taxation and drafting of the population to fight (my other army) Hive Fleet Khadrim which was assailing the Tysan sector. So the governor was tempted to join the Tau. But was found out, causing a massive Imperial purge where all of the PDF officers were liquidated. The foriegn Steel legion regiments declared martial law, shooting any demonstrators on sight. A kill team captured the governor and later nailed him to the front a Lemman Russ battle tank. So they were given plenty of reason to revolt and join the Tau.In other words most of the Imperial army were off-worlders and once eliminated the rest of the human populace embraced the Tau as, at worst, the only force that could save them from the Tyranid menace. Thats my reasoning of my background, anyway.

Perfect. No Implausible stuff. (except claiming those fanatical devoted ladies don't exist!!)

It is your fluff and you can write whatever you want - as long it is in no violation of current fluff. Tau can be grimdark if you want, they are a little control freaks but all in acceptable range.

There is no consensus, but my option is that the tau tend not to treat humans well. Prolonged wars with the IoM has left tau with a very low option of humans. They see them as a problem they have to manage rather then citizens. Like you will have a bunch of aun sitting around trying to think of ways to solve the human problem.

This is all just my option. Fluff supports it as it also supports many other takes.

Juniperius wrote:doen you can calmly assimilate anything without weird indoctrination shenenigans, you might have to "reeducate" some of the most stubborn ones: e.g. space marines, sisters of battle, commisars and the lot.

Sisters of Battle are zealous followers of the God Emperor's Creed, they can never be "reeducated" unless corrupted by Chaos and that require a lot of effort even for them.
Space Marines are also zealous monk warriors who carry the geen-seed of Emperors own sons in them, they to can't be "reeducated" unless corrupted by Chaos.
Some professional Imperial Guardsmen ( Caidan, Krieg, Tallarn, Elysian... ) and all Commissars are also very hard to "reeducate", even if they are ordinary Humans.

I give them a more pragmatic view.

The Tau will treat them in accordance to what best serves the greater good. If that means, effectively, genocide to clear them out of a place, then so be it. If it means giving them great freedom and even power to the extent the governing Tau are comfortable with? Then that is what will be done as well.

Brother Coa wrote:

Juniperius wrote:doen you can calmly assimilate anything without weird indoctrination shenenigans, you might have to "reeducate" some of the most stubborn ones: e.g. space marines, sisters of battle, commisars and the lot.

Sisters of Battle are zealous followers of the God Emperor's Creed, they can never be "reeducated" unless corrupted by Chaos and that require a lot of effort even for them.
Space Marines are also zealous monk warriors who carry the geen-seed of Emperors own sons in them, they to can't be "reeducated" unless corrupted by Chaos.
Some professional Imperial Guardsmen ( Caidan, Krieg, Tallarn, Elysian... ) and all Commissars are also very hard to "reeducate", even if they are ordinary Humans.

That's true. Your not going to find any example of the tau converting a SM. They mostly just fight till one leaves or dies.

nomotog wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Juniperius wrote:doen you can calmly assimilate anything without weird indoctrination shenenigans, you might have to "reeducate" some of the most stubborn ones: e.g. space marines, sisters of battle, commisars and the lot.

Sisters of Battle are zealous followers of the God Emperor's Creed, they can never be "reeducated" unless corrupted by Chaos and that require a lot of effort even for them.
Space Marines are also zealous monk warriors who carry the geen-seed of Emperors own sons in them, they to can't be "reeducated" unless corrupted by Chaos.
Some professional Imperial Guardsmen ( Caidan, Krieg, Tallarn, Elysian... ) and all Commissars are also very hard to "reeducate", even if they are ordinary Humans.

That's true. Your not going to find any example of the tau converting a SM. They mostly just fight till one leaves or dies.

Oh but i knew that, howver i could see the Tau naive as they usually are actually trying to do that.

DrimGark wrote:I give them a more pragmatic view.

The Tau will treat them in accordance to what best serves the greater good. If that means, effectively, genocide to clear them out of a place, then so be it. If it means giving them great freedom and even power to the extent the governing Tau are comfortable with? Then that is what will be done as well.

Yeah, pretty much that. They find a world of humans who are willing to 'play the game' as it were; due to a bunch of reasons beyond their control.

Juniperius wrote:

nomotog wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Juniperius wrote:doen you can calmly assimilate anything without weird indoctrination shenenigans, you might have to "reeducate" some of the most stubborn ones: e.g. space marines, sisters of battle, commisars and the lot.

Sisters of Battle are zealous followers of the God Emperor's Creed, they can never be "reeducated" unless corrupted by Chaos and that require a lot of effort even for them.
Space Marines are also zealous monk warriors who carry the geen-seed of Emperors own sons in them, they to can't be "reeducated" unless corrupted by Chaos.
Some professional Imperial Guardsmen ( Caidan, Krieg, Tallarn, Elysian... ) and all Commissars are also very hard to "reeducate", even if they are ordinary Humans.

That's true. Your not going to find any example of the tau converting a SM. They mostly just fight till one leaves or dies.

Oh but i knew that, howver i could see the Tau naive as they usually are actually trying to do that.

Dawn of war actually has that happening some what. The tau commander tries to convince the SM commander to give up and the SM commander talks about how much he wants to kill tau. It's rather funny.

nomotog wrote:

Dawn of war actually has that happening some what. The tau commander tries to convince the SM commander to give up and the SM commander talks about how much he wants to kill tau. It's rather funny.

DoW-DC had some great lines. I believe that one went:

Aun'el: "Do you care so little about the lives of your men? Are you so mad?"

Thule: "You you care so much about yours? Are you so weak?"

Which did a pretty good job of summing up a major philosophical difference between the two factions.

Tau: "Come on be on our side"

SM: "no"

Tau: "I'll be your friend"

SM: "no"

Tau: "all the other cool kids are on our side"

SM: "no"

Tau: "ooh your mean"

GentlemanGuy wrote:Tau: "Come on be on our side"

SM: "no"

Tau: "I'll be your friend"

SM: "no"

Tau: "all the other cool kids are on our side"

SM: "no"

Tau: "ooh your mean"

Bang.

Popping noise.

Sound of slumping body against wall

Space Marine: 'No'

Totalwar1402 wrote:

Juniperius wrote:doen you can calmly assimilate anything without weird indoctrination shenenigans, you might have to "reeducate" some of the most stubborn ones: e.g. space marines, sisters of battle, commisars and the lot.
However even that can easily be avoided, btw i like your story i have the same type of rivalry with my guard player.

Oh lord, please didn't you hear. The Sisters of Battle don't exist in 40k! the blood angels went down fighting, the officers/commisars were caught by linch-mobs due to them using forced conscription and having failed their men utterly; whilst many more simply shot themselves. Basically the Imperials got caught off-guard. Panicked, went Stalingrad times 10 onto the Tau and were sending their civilians against walls of pulse rifle fire. Unsurprisingly many joined the Tau. The war also began because of excessive taxation and drafting of the population to fight (my other army) Hive Fleet Khadrim which was assailing the Tysan sector. So the governor was tempted to join the Tau. But was found out, causing a massive Imperial purge where all of the PDF officers were liquidated. The foriegn Steel legion regiments declared martial law, shooting any demonstrators on sight. A kill team captured the governor and later nailed him to the front a Lemman Russ battle tank. So they were given plenty of reason to revolt and join the Tau.In other words most of the Imperial army were off-worlders and once eliminated the rest of the human populace embraced the Tau as, at worst, the only force that could save them from the Tyranid menace. Thats my reasoning of my background, anyway.

Good stuff! I like it.

Thanks. He still hasn't stopped talking about how that expletive (shadowsun) beat his army. We did a branching scenario campaign where each victory added a certain number of points to the final battle. As it turned out we both came in level at 1500pts each. Of course we had planned on it just being guard but he surprised me by bringing his Blood angel assault army. Of course, I had planned for this . So I took ten suits with plasma/melta and two ion cannon heads. I could have ended up having a 1000pts vs 2000pts of blood angels if it had been different mind you. That, would not have been fun.

I still need to do a proper conversion of Cadians with the tau shoulder pad and everything. Currently I just have a twelve man squad painted in my army colours.

Read the novel "For the Emperor" which portrays a world that voluntarily joined the Tau Empire, with a Tau friendly human population.

Kroothawk wrote:Read the novel "For the Emperor" which portrays a world that voluntarily joined the Tau Empire, with a Tau friendly human population.

Is that a Ciaphus Cain novel?

Kroothawk wrote:Read the novel "For the Emperor" which portrays a world that voluntarily joined the Tau Empire, with a Tau friendly human population.

Can you tell us a little?

The tau will welcome in and integrate anyone who is honestly willing to become loyal adherents to the Greater Good and work to the furtherance of that. They may allow some leeway in certain lesser ways (to adapt things to alternate Points of view) but essentially you're expected to treat the Greater Good as paramount the same way the tau do. Humans however are not nearly as devoted to concepts like the Greater Good than the tua are (in general rather - there can be fanatical humans but humans are rather more unpredictable, which is one of the problems the Imperium has in managing them. Meanwhile the tau virtually never rebel or commit crimes or oppose the party line or anything like that.)

Resistance and opposition are crushed, worlds are conquered, or if the enemy proves to be too much of a danger or beyond possibility of conquest they may be quarantined or even purged so they cannot pose a danger to the Greater Good.

That said, once oyu're part of the tau empire you do as the Empire wishes, you don't resist, and you don't ever leave.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nomotog wrote:Can you tell us a little?

There's not much to tell. Basically they have people on the planet who were loyal adherents ot the Greater Good (Replace God emperor with ideology and that's basically what it was.) and they wanted their world to join the tau empire. It's not unusual because the WAter Caste are good at diplomacy, bribery, or even outrage subterfuge/sabotage to ensure a world is brought into the Tau Empire. Its probably one of their better and more effective tools of conquest since it cuts down on the collateral damage that a Fire Warrior invasion would require.

Humans, especially the leaders of former Imperial worlds, tend ot be greedy, vain, shortsighted and easily manipulated in that regard.

nomotog wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:Read the novel "For the Emperor" which portrays a world that voluntarily joined the Tau Empire, with a Tau friendly human population.

Can you tell us a little?

Yes, it is a Ciaphas Cain novel (the first one IIRC, now in an omnibus), so some parts are a bit tongue in cheek, but it is the only non-bolter-porn novel on Tau we have. Best characterization of how a peaceful human planet in a Tau Empire could look like, also best characterization of Kroot in a novel and good characterization of how ethereals act. I don't want to spoiler too much, but there is a third faction active on the planet.