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Made in gb







Reading, Berks

I'm looking for some advice/suggestions on a good rpg system to start a 12 year old on.

My friend's son has expressed an interest in trying out roleplaying, but I'm not quite sure where to start as it's been an age since I last GM'd. He has only ever played Lego Heroica and Zombies!!; both are pretty simple board games. My first thought was to start off with a few sessions of Warhammer Quest to introduce something slightly more advanced than Heroica and slowly morph the campaign into a fully fledged WFRP game. The only concern I have with this is that if I start them off on WQ then he's going to expect everything to be a dungeon crawl... Having said that, this is a kid that likes to play Halo in God/unlimited ammo mode... so a dungeon crawl is probably what he needs to start with anyway.

The only systems that I own are WFRP3e and the various 40K systems; though I've not played either. Apart from me, everyone's knowledge of 40K is negligible, so I felt a fantasy system would be simpler for them to get to grips with. The other option I've been thinking about is to go for the D&D beginners set and work up from there.

The D&D board games look interesting, but afaik they don't allow the evolution of characters into the full 4e system?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/21 14:07:15


   
Made in us
!!Goffik Rocker!!





That beginners set is a great way to start, and fairly cheap to boot. I've known a few others who used it as an introduction to RPG's and it went well every time.

The board games are a separate system. It uses some basic stuff from the actual game but there is little in the way of role playing and only goes to second level, which you only get when you crit or draw the card, iirc. They are fun but maybe not the best introduction.

Healing surges are for fools. Fools and liberals.

Calvin: I'm thinking of starting my own talk radio show. I'll spout simplistic opinions for hours on end, ridicule anyone who disagrees with me, and generally foster divisiveness, cynicism, and a lower level of public dialog! 
   
Made in gb
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine






4E red box should get you started. Otherwise you could try the essentials (heroes of forgotten lands or some such) which is a slightly simplified version of the character but the rules are the same. If you want the full crunch experience (and better customisation) PHB1/DMG/MM2 or 3 (MM1 monsters, while iconic have too many hitpoints and deal too little damage)
   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Devastator




Cornwall

If you are looking to get younger children, it seems that pathfinder beginner box is a solid bet, check out this thread http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz4of4?Did-your-kids-like-it-Mine-did

4E box is also a good start, my only drawback would be with 5E in the works, will it be worth the outlay if Wizards change rule sets as they did when 4E came out, but otherwise 4E is another good bet.

 
   
Made in gb







Reading, Berks

Excellent, thanks guys.

Now to actually find a UK games shop that has it in stock. Every single one that I've found so far says they don't have it and can't get it! Amazon has someone selling a copy... for £50!?

What is the actual difference between the DMG/PHB/MM setup and the 5 Essentials books that cover the rules, DM, player and monsters? Do you still need the PHB/DMG books to go with the Essentials? With so many books, it's hard to see where you're supposed to start :/

   
Made in us
!!Goffik Rocker!!





It sells out fairly quickly and when it is out of print the price jumps. It has happened before. A friend wanted to get it and it was high like that and the next month when it was restocked it was back down to $15 on Amazon.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/21 16:24:48


Healing surges are for fools. Fools and liberals.

Calvin: I'm thinking of starting my own talk radio show. I'll spout simplistic opinions for hours on end, ridicule anyone who disagrees with me, and generally foster divisiveness, cynicism, and a lower level of public dialog! 
   
Made in gb







Reading, Berks

Ravenblade666 wrote:4E box is also a good start, my only drawback would be with 5E in the works, will it be worth the outlay if Wizards change rule sets as they did when 4E came out, but otherwise 4E is another good bet.


I did wonder about the switch to 5E as I saw the call for playtesters. I'm not sure it would be a massive issue, but it's always worth keeping in mind. We're also unlikely to go mad and buy all the books (then again, this is me we're talking about here...)

Ravenblade666 wrote:If you are looking to get younger children, it seems that pathfinder beginner box is a solid bet, check out this thread http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz4of4?Did-your-kids-like-it-Mine-did


I've heard good things about Pathfinder and the box set certainly looks nice; but I've also heard that 4e is more streamlined in some areas?... I shall have to ponder which direction to go. A bit more research is needed I suspect...

   
Made in us
!!Goffik Rocker!!





If they have never played an RPG start with the Red Box. When they get comfortable with the way the game plays then move up to Pathfinder.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/21 17:52:34


Healing surges are for fools. Fools and liberals.

Calvin: I'm thinking of starting my own talk radio show. I'll spout simplistic opinions for hours on end, ridicule anyone who disagrees with me, and generally foster divisiveness, cynicism, and a lower level of public dialog! 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Defensor Mundi






Richmond, VA

Move "up" to Pathfinder?
   
Made in gb
[MOD]






Suffolk, where the Aliens roam.

He's Twelve? Star Wars would be a good bet surely, let him play a Jedi and throw droids at him.

Other than that, whatever really, its more about what you do, planning and theme wise not the setting that matters.

I could run a World of Darkness game easily enough for a 12yr old, just tone down on the murder, bloodshed, horror aspects and run with it as a heroic game. Okay that works better with Garou over Vamps, but its possible.

D&D style would generally be for the best mind, as you can really do what you want with it, and make it as violent as you do or don't want. Heroic adventure, seeking out dungeons and all that jazz.

DAKKA DAKKA RULES
"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.

I play : = Vhaekonian 75th - Thalzakian Light Division 'those lucky Dogs' Fox Company = Vhaekonian 111th LRF (Lunar Response Force) 'the Black Watch' = Hellesvour 21st 'Firecats' Bravo Baby 'Bastards & Bitches' Company. = Warlord Grodgob's Lootas - Deathskull Warband, with allies Snozdak's Dakka Moonz - Bad Moon Warband. Lowdown Ratz BloodBowl Team. 'Hellions - Strike Team Beta' Corregidor Mercenaries 'Nomads'

Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Defensor Mundi






Richmond, VA

I think a younger person would benefit more from playing a WoD game than D&D 3.5 and its successors if the goal is to introduce roleplaying rather than tactical combat. With D&D, a lot of the roleplaying is brought to the table by the players. You get race, class, and alignment as prompts and then it's really up to the people. WoD games have a lot more in the way of RP-supportive mechanics. It would be pretty easy indeed to adapt WoD to low fantasy (using that phrase in the sense of gaming; you know, a world without healing potions).
   
Made in gb







Reading, Berks

Good point about WoD supporting more of the RP aspect.

Last time I looked at one of their systems was about 10 years ago and I didn't get on too well with it... though that may have been the GM being annoying and penalising me for not using out-of-game knowledge in-game. Fool!

   
Made in gb
[MOD]






Suffolk, where the Aliens roam.

Ouch, probably one of the most bizarre reasons for penalising a player. Besides, he was missing out on one of the best bits of WoD, when your players knew OOC they where potentially fethed, but IC they carried on regardless.

Surprising how often dice and fate, helped some of my groups through some hairy scrapes, Nexus Crawlers being the worst.

Oh and aye, agree with Manchu, its a great system to inspire roleplay. The D&D style I mentioned was more about how you make out the setting, as fantasy can be easier for a youngster to get his head round, than crawling through New York alleyways, which is really odd when you think about it.
Heck, if you could track down a copy of Exalted, that is more in a fantasy style as well, with fancy moves and abilities based around swordplay, magic and the like, but using the ST system as a basis.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/21 21:07:43


DAKKA DAKKA RULES
"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.

I play : = Vhaekonian 75th - Thalzakian Light Division 'those lucky Dogs' Fox Company = Vhaekonian 111th LRF (Lunar Response Force) 'the Black Watch' = Hellesvour 21st 'Firecats' Bravo Baby 'Bastards & Bitches' Company. = Warlord Grodgob's Lootas - Deathskull Warband, with allies Snozdak's Dakka Moonz - Bad Moon Warband. Lowdown Ratz BloodBowl Team. 'Hellions - Strike Team Beta' Corregidor Mercenaries 'Nomads'

Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
 
   
Made in us
!!Goffik Rocker!!





Manchu wrote:Move "up" to Pathfinder?


Well, up may not have been the right word, but it is a less streamlined version of 4e, and more paperwork for people just trying to get a grasp on the concepts and ideas. No need to track five separate skills when you can just train in Athletics.

This isn't about which system is better, but which would be easier to teach new players, and I think 4E is much more friendly to players new to the hobby.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/21 21:20:56


Healing surges are for fools. Fools and liberals.

Calvin: I'm thinking of starting my own talk radio show. I'll spout simplistic opinions for hours on end, ridicule anyone who disagrees with me, and generally foster divisiveness, cynicism, and a lower level of public dialog! 
   
Made in us
Servoarm Flailing Magos







Savage Worlds might be a good option. It's a bit less 'strict' than 4e, much less detail-oriented than PF, and there's a lot of support for GMs winging it... And it's generic, so it's relatively easy to say "OK, we'll do something inspired by that new show you're into" if that helps. Gameplay assumes measuring inches (like a wargame) or a gridded mat for combat. As always, toys, heroclix, etc. can be used to keep it cheap and fun.

Play the games that make you happy.
 
   
Made in gb
[MOD]






Suffolk, where the Aliens roam.

Heres a link for Exalted endtransmission, I think the cover explains a lot of what I am refering to. Fantasy, yet the St system. Its a good read.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Exalted-Alan-Alexander/dp/1588466841/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1332364768&sr=8-1

DAKKA DAKKA RULES
"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.

I play : = Vhaekonian 75th - Thalzakian Light Division 'those lucky Dogs' Fox Company = Vhaekonian 111th LRF (Lunar Response Force) 'the Black Watch' = Hellesvour 21st 'Firecats' Bravo Baby 'Bastards & Bitches' Company. = Warlord Grodgob's Lootas - Deathskull Warband, with allies Snozdak's Dakka Moonz - Bad Moon Warband. Lowdown Ratz BloodBowl Team. 'Hellions - Strike Team Beta' Corregidor Mercenaries 'Nomads'

Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
 
   
Made in ca
Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





In the chaotic wastes also known as Canada

Search for pokemon tabletop adventures

DOOMFART's Drunken Rugby Player FOR DOOMFART! FOR GES! FOR DAKKA!!!!
Kanluwen wrote:Cadian Blood and Soul Hunter?
They're like kidnapping someone, and forcefeeding them heroin until they're hooked.
 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Defensor Mundi






Richmond, VA

Ahtman wrote:Well, up may not have been the right word ...
You definitely had me arching an eyebrow there.
   
Made in gb







Reading, Berks

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Ouch, probably one of the most bizarre reasons for penalising a player.


I think the first session went along the lines of

GM: "You've all been turned into vampires, but you don't know anything about being a vampire. You've been locked in isolation, been tortured, turned into a vampire, left without food or blood for days. You're starving and almost blind with blood lust when you're suddenly released into an airport along with 30 other new vampires... there's a crowd of passengers ahead of you...what do you do?"
Me. "I grab the nearest person and rip their throat out to see if it sates the hunger/blood lust"
GM: "But... but he's a vampire, you can't do that... It's against the laws of their society!"
Me: "But you just said we knew nothing about their society... so he's fair game"
GM: "You're now seriously ill, everybody hates you and as soon as the main houses hear about this they will all be after you. You're screwed."
ME: "WFT?"
Other players: *Snigger* "We knew not to do that"

I can see I've got a lot more research to do before settling on a new system!

   
Made in gb
[MOD]






Suffolk, where the Aliens roam.

Okies so the ST was a bit of a odd un. Because the only faction that would possibly even do that (and even then I have doubts) would be Sabbat, and if that was a distraction for an attack on Camarilla holdings, the only possible reason I can think of them making such a move. Any fledglings that survived that day, would be welcomed into the Sabbat afterwards. They'd let the Camarilla clean up that mess, or like, kill everyone there.

If it was a Camarilla game, he's got no idea how Vampire works, as there is literally no reason why a Camarilla Vampire would risk the Masquerade in such a fashion.

However I'd guess you'd know if you where playing the'bad guys' so my thinking is sadly towards the later, also there is no reason for you being ill, you should have had a boost, possibly frenzied in the excitement, unless he handpicked you out as a Ventrue, but even then the who set up of that game is seriously flawed as a intro point. To pull that as a intro with a new player around, shows he is obviosuly not as good a ST as he thinks he is.

I wish you where round this way, as I'd happily show you how an actual game of VtM is played, and why it has such a hardcore following.

Sadly I've seen similar threads before, its a game that can be seriously damaged in the minds of players, by the actions of a poor ST as its so Roleplay focused, and so unforgiving in combat if the ST over stacks the deck against you.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/03/22 14:40:57


DAKKA DAKKA RULES
"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.

I play : = Vhaekonian 75th - Thalzakian Light Division 'those lucky Dogs' Fox Company = Vhaekonian 111th LRF (Lunar Response Force) 'the Black Watch' = Hellesvour 21st 'Firecats' Bravo Baby 'Bastards & Bitches' Company. = Warlord Grodgob's Lootas - Deathskull Warband, with allies Snozdak's Dakka Moonz - Bad Moon Warband. Lowdown Ratz BloodBowl Team. 'Hellions - Strike Team Beta' Corregidor Mercenaries 'Nomads'

Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
 
   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Devastator




Cornwall

Also if you don't like a rule, don't use it or if you feel your game would be hamper by a rule/code either change it so that it works with the game and players and not against the players and the game.

I also agree with Morathi and Manchu, that WW games are focused more on roleplay then on a dungeon crawl that you would probably get with D20 system, but then as Morathi said it comes
down to the ST/DM making/putting the effort into running a fluid game with the players, one of the things that can infinitely slow down a game is having to reach for the rulebook every 5 mins, so maybe play
rules lite for a couple of games until you feel they can start to learn some more complex rules.

 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Defensor Mundi






Richmond, VA

I've introduced people to roleplay by simply telling a story, having them flip a coin a few times while keeping track of resources on a sheet of paper. If you don't care about learning how to use existing rules (generally, I mean; I'm not referring to any particular ruleset) then this is the way to go. But RPGs are games and so I think it's important not to just dismiss the rules, as is very trendy among roleplayers these days. I always see "don't like it/don't play it" kinds of comments but, logically, that just takes us back to arguing over whether Superman could beat up Batman. Without agreeing about how to resolve conflicts, we cannot meaningfully resolve them.

So my advice is that you should go with something that you already know pretty well or be prepared to invest a good amount of time learning a system that you don't know pretty well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/22 18:29:48


 
   
Made in us
!!Goffik Rocker!!





I just remembered there was a guy who made a bunch of pre-gen full page character sheets to help run a game for younger players, but it would work for 12 year olds just as easily.

Example:



Website with lots of different characters.


Edit: Apparently the link to the original male characters has gone bad. I saved it awhile back and if you want it I will dig around for it.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/03/22 20:14:17


Healing surges are for fools. Fools and liberals.

Calvin: I'm thinking of starting my own talk radio show. I'll spout simplistic opinions for hours on end, ridicule anyone who disagrees with me, and generally foster divisiveness, cynicism, and a lower level of public dialog! 
   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Devastator




Cornwall

Manchu wrote:. I always see "don't like it/don't play it" kinds of comments but, logically, that just takes us back to arguing over whether Superman could beat up Batman.


I've seen what Manchu said all too often, really thanks to Morathi and his better half I got to know the White wolf system before I was a die hard D20 bloke since I've played VtM and WtA with the
latter being one of my favourite game settings ever since I've played it. I tried to get a couple of friends from work to try out WtA they weren't interested as it wasn't a D20 system.

 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Defensor Mundi






Richmond, VA

I always feel tempted to coax d20 fanatics into trying new things. But really they're probably saving me a lot of trouble.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ahtman wrote:I saved it awhile back and if you want it I will dig around for it.
I know you aren't asking me but please do! I think this one looks great -- am work blocked from seeing others.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/22 20:41:16


 
   
Made in gb







Reading, Berks

I'm sure I've got the original BESM books in the attic, along with the last Marvel rpg books... I might have a look at those systems too as they were both really simple, diceless systems. They might be a good starting point for him, especially as both are very cartoony.

Thanks for all the advice guys. It's been very helpful

   
Made in gb
[MOD]






Suffolk, where the Aliens roam.

Hope it goes well.

DAKKA DAKKA RULES
"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.

I play : = Vhaekonian 75th - Thalzakian Light Division 'those lucky Dogs' Fox Company = Vhaekonian 111th LRF (Lunar Response Force) 'the Black Watch' = Hellesvour 21st 'Firecats' Bravo Baby 'Bastards & Bitches' Company. = Warlord Grodgob's Lootas - Deathskull Warband, with allies Snozdak's Dakka Moonz - Bad Moon Warband. Lowdown Ratz BloodBowl Team. 'Hellions - Strike Team Beta' Corregidor Mercenaries 'Nomads'

Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
 
   
Made in gb







Reading, Berks

me too!

   
 
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