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I'm comparing two lists which I am halfway done collecting minis to run the army. I can see advantages of both, but I want input, advantages of both/ disadvantages, etc. Please vote, and explain your reasoning!

Thanks, much appreciated!

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List 1: 2000 Pt Eldar Seer Council - 2 Falcons
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155 Autarch Eldar Jetbike, Mandiblasters, Laser Lance, Reaper Launcher

173 Farseer Eldar Jetbike, Singing Spear, Runes of Warding, Spirit Stones, Fortune, Guide

532 10 Warlocks Eldar Jetbikes,
5 with Witchblades, Destructor
1 with Witchblade, Embolden
1 with Singing Spear, Embolden
1 with Singing Spear, Enhance
2 with Singing Spears

205 6 Guardian Jetbikes 6 Guardian Jetbikes, 4 with Twinlinked Shuriken Catapults, 2 with Shuriken Cannons
1 Warlock on Jetbike Jetbike, Embolden, Singing Spear

60 5 Dire Avengers
60 5 Dire Avengers

115 Fire Prism Fire Prism
180 Falcon Eldar Missile Launcher, Holo Field, Spirit Stones
180 Falcon Eldar Missile Launcher, Holo Field, Spirit Stones

80 5 Fire Dragons
110 Wave Serpent Twin Linked Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

75 Viper 75 - Viper with Eldar Missile Launcher, Shuriken cannon
75 Viper 75 - Viper with Eldar Missile Launcher, Shuriken cannon
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This list brings 3 scoring units with the 2nd unit of Dire Avengers/ Falcon, without the bonus of 2 Fire Prisms. There are also more Witchblades vs Singing Spears in the Seer Council.


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List 2: 2000 Pt Eldar Seer Council - 2 Fire Prisms
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155 Autarch Eldar Jetbike, Mandiblasters, Laser Lance, Reaper Launcher

173 Farseer Eldar Jetbike, Singing Spear, Runes of Warding, Spirit Stones, Fortune, Guide

530 10 Warlocks Eldar Jetbikes,
4 with Witchblades, Destructor
1 with Witchblade, Embolden
1 with Singing Spear, Embolden
1 with Singing Spear, Enhance
3 with Singing Spears

205 6 Guardian Jetbikes 6 Guardian Jetbikes, 4 with Twinlinked Shuriken Catapults, 2 with Shuriken Cannons
1 Warlock on Jetbike Jetbike, Embolden, Singing Spear

60 5 Dire Avengers

125 Fire Prism Fire Prism, Spirit Stones
125 Fire Prism Fire Prism, Spirit Stones
195 Falcon Eldar Missile Launcher, Holo Field, Spirit Stones, Star Engines

80 5 Fire Dragons
125 Wave Serpent Twin Linked Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Star Engines

75 Viper 75 - Viper with Eldar Missile Launcher, Shuriken cannon
75 Viper 75 - Viper with Eldar Missile Launcher, Shuriken cannon
75 Viper 75 - Viper with Eldar Missile Launcher, Shuriken cannon

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This list brings 2 Fire prisms, allowing accurate linked Fire, with only 2 scoring units. However, it brings more Singing Spears to the mounted council and an extra Viper, meaning an extra skimmer bringing more mobile fire support.



(note that Dire Avengers ride in the Falcons in both lists)

140 Autarch Eldar Jetbike, Mandiblasters, Laser Lance, Fusion Gun

175 Farseer Eldar Jetbike, Runes of Warding, Spirit Stones, Fortune, Doom

485 9 Warlocks Eldar Jetbikes,
4 with Witchblades, Destructor
1 with Witchblades, Embolden
1 with Singing Spear, Embolden
1 with Witchblade, Enhance
2 with Singing Spear


205 6 Guardian Jetbikes 6 Guardian Jetbikes, 4 with Twinlinked Shuriken Catapults, 2 with Shuriken Cannons
1 Warlock on Jetbike Jetbike, Embolden, Singing Spear

205 6 Guardian Jetbikes 6 Guardian Jetbikes, 4 with Twinlinked Shuriken Catapults, 2 with Shuriken Cannons
1 Warlock on Jetbike Jetbike, Embolden, Singing Spear

160 2 x 5 Fire Dragons
220 2 x Wave Serpent Twin Linked Shuriken Cannon & Spirit Stones

230 2 x Fire Prism

177 4 Shining Spears
Exarch with Withdraw

Total: 1997

I made a lot of changes I'll list out the ones I feel should be pointed out. If you want you can change out the one or both of the GJB squads for smaller 3 man scoring squads. I never find the falcon DAVU to be worth it. I think this will work better because you have 2 close combat threats plus the huge warlock squad can lay out some hurt with 3 singing spears, 4 heavy flamers, and close combat gewdness. I noticed one big change that was worth 5 points, you had fortune and guide on your farseer instead of fortune & doom. Doom lets your heavy flamers become very deadly and all the shuriken catapults and twin-linked so there's not much point for guide. I added another squad of fire dragons too because that extra take popping power will help out a TON. I have yet to play-test shining spears but i've seen a few battle reports and list that have them and if used correctly with your autarch it can be very good. This is a very solid list and I hope you like some of the changes I made. I'm going to save this list to try out(i'll make sure and give you credit ).

Goodluck with your games!

1st list take the autarchs reaper launcher off and add a fusion gun, reaper launchers on autarchs are aweful.

singing spears on Jetlocks dont make sense. What do you use them for? Against infantry use the cataupults. Against tanks ASSAULT them with 3 attacks. Singing spears are bad take them all off. You dont need destructor, you can whipe any squad in close combat. At MAX you want 2 destructors, anything else is complete overkill.

Take out the vypers, and add fire dragons in wave serpents. The 2 falcon list is better, but you might as well make it 3 falcons. You also dont need a seer council of 11, Bring 1 Farseer and 7 Warlocks, anything higher than that is overkill.

Smitty0305 wrote:1st list take the autarchs reaper launcher off and add a fusion gun, reaper launchers on autarchs are aweful.

singing spears on Jetlocks dont make sense. What do you use them for? Against infantry use the cataupults. Against tanks ASSAULT them with 3 attacks. Singing spears are bad take them all off. You dont need destructor, you can whipe any squad in close combat. At MAX you want 2 destructors, anything else is complete overkill.

Take out the vypers, and add fire dragons in wave serpents. The 2 falcon list is better, but you might as well make it 3 falcons. You also dont need a seer council of 11, Bring 1 Farseer and 7 Warlocks, anything higher than that is overkill.

Smitty every time I see you leave advice I have to disagree with most of it haha

Singing Spears make tons of sense on the Seer council. Putting a Singing spear lets you have a good choice of dicing open a transport and then being able to charge that (and most likely multiassault another vehicle too). That is very important. But I think it should be cut down to 2-3 locks with spears, a spear on the Farseer (since you don't want him in melee anyways) and an Autarch with Fusion gun. that's 3-4 accurate lascannons and a meltagun into a transport. You should be able to crack it. I do have to agree that going down a few locks might be a good idea.

Reaper Launchers on Autarch are usually not the best choice, but at least that is most likely 2 dead marines every turn as you close in with the council. It depends on whether you usually play foot or meched armies.

I'll have to agree that Vypers are a poor choice in either list, but disagree on a 3 Falcon list. Though that'd be durable scoring units you gotta have some strong backup too, which 2 Fire prisms will definitely provide.

I like Helvost's list! While it is kinda typical for a 1 council jetbike list it's still solid (sorry Helvost but I'm pretty sure I've seen almost that exact list posted on two different forums ). And you have an excuse to field Shining Spears =P although its price is off, most likely the StarLance price wasn't included. I'd use them for fun games, but for more competitive games I'd drop the SSpears and Destructor Lock ( ) to get DAVU Falcon with HoloFields + EML to make sure you have a scoring unit who'll stay. Seer council will tear up stuff while not dieing, double FP and 2 squads of FD will make sure Termies will try and stay in reserve ;D

Thanks for the replies & votes. The responses are interesting ... I see some people have completely differing viewpoints on the effectiveness of certain models/techniques.

Helvost wrote:I made a lot of changes I'll list out the ones I feel should be pointed out. If you want you can change out the one or both of the GJB squads for smaller 3 man scoring squads. I never find the falcon DAVU to be worth it. I think this will work better because you have 2 close combat threats plus the huge warlock squad can lay out some hurt with 3 singing spears, 4 heavy flamers, and close combat gewdness. I noticed one big change that was worth 5 points, you had fortune and guide on your farseer instead of fortune & doom. Doom lets your heavy flamers become very deadly and all the shuriken catapults and twin-linked so there's not much point for guide. I added another squad of fire dragons too because that extra take popping power will help out a TON. I have yet to play-test shining spears but i've seen a few battle reports and list that have them and if used correctly with your autarch it can be very good. This is a very solid list and I hope you like some of the changes I made. I'm going to save this list to try out(i'll make sure and give you credit ).

Goodluck with your games!

Your List change is interesting because my first version of this list (discussed here Included 2 Guardian Jetbike Squads. I know the jetbikes are still comparably fragile, and even being exposed to one Space Marine Tactical Squad's shooting will thin them out quite effectively, so It's hard to be offensive with them. I guess including the Vipers is just trying to get away from Fire Dragon Spam ... Fire Dragons are good, don't get me wrong, but they always do tend to be one-hit wonders, require getting right in the enemy's threat zone and it's kind of expected for Eldar players to bring them.

People talk down vipers, and I know they're quite literally hit-or-miss, but I like the extra heavy weapons, and they can quite happily either back up a Jetbike squad or dodge in the backfield with Falcons and snipe. BS3 does leave more to be desired, though. When I take Vipers, I do so knowing they won't survive, but bring the chance for a few lucky shots and a distraction from other units; in this respect, they can still be used well. I guess if people are spending time shooting at my Vipers, they're avoiding my Jetbikes and my Grav-Tanks.

I will concede Fire Dragons are more reliable at completing their task. Vipers ... don't have a specified role? They either snipe light tanks/transports, screen other units for cover, or attack light infantry (move 12" and Fire both Shuriken Cannon/Plasma Missile).

Shining Spears, as far as I can tell, are a highly disputed unit in the Eldar Codex. I can't deny their effectiveness in a charge, and maybe on a charge with the autarch leading, they can be played effectively in this list. I like the idea of the Autarch being able to add some Armor-punching power to the Seer Council and benefiting from Fortune.

Also, I believe I chose Guide because guide allows you to re-roll to hit with Singing Spears, making them more accurate, and Allows a re-roll to wound with Destructor, as it's a template weapon (and a re-roll to hit on a template allows a re-roll to wound.)

Smitty0305 wrote:1st list take the autarchs reaper launcher off and add a fusion gun, reaper launchers on autarchs are aweful.

singing spears on Jetlocks dont make sense. What do you use them for? Against infantry use the cataupults. Against tanks ASSAULT them with 3 attacks. Singing spears are bad take them all off. You dont need destructor, you can whipe any squad in close combat. At MAX you want 2 destructors, anything else is complete overkill.

Take out the vypers, and add fire dragons in wave serpents. The 2 falcon list is better, but you might as well make it 3 falcons. You also dont need a seer council of 11, Bring 1 Farseer and 7 Warlocks, anything higher than that is overkill.

I wouldn't think 3 bs6 s5 ap3 range 48" shots around on platform that can move 12" and still assault/assault move 6" is bad, especially if he chooses to hang back midfield and chill with a Jetbike Squad. I just figured I had other Tank hunting options. I will have to playtest to see what is more valuable to me.

I know I could probably get by with less, but I feel like with a Jetbike Seer Council, overkill is the point, so why not go for it all the way? That's why I designed a 12 point Deathstar that will charge forward into just about anything and decimate it. 5 Destructors are really added for all the annoying Terminators with Feel No Pain/ Fearless/etc, where you just need as MANY WOUNDS AS POSSIBLE. I feel they will not go to waste. I will definitely experiment with reducing the Warlock count to make room for More scoring units/Fire Dragon units, etc

What I said before about Vipers. I know Fire Dragons will be more effective, but for now, I'm sticking to Vipers. Until they piss me off enough to buy another Wave Serpent/ Fire Dragon box.

felixander wrote:Smitty every time I see you leave advice I have to disagree with most of it haha

Singing Spears make tons of sense on the Seer council. Putting a Singing spear lets you have a good choice of dicing open a transport and then being able to charge that (and most likely multiassault another vehicle too). That is very important. But I think it should be cut down to 2-3 locks with spears, a spear on the Farseer (since you don't want him in melee anyways) and an Autarch with Fusion gun. that's 3-4 accurate lascannons and a meltagun into a transport. You should be able to crack it. I do have to agree that going down a few locks might be a good idea.

Reaper Launchers on Autarch are usually not the best choice, but at least that is most likely 2 dead marines every turn as you close in with the council. It depends on whether you usually play foot or meched armies.

I'll have to agree that Vypers are a poor choice in either list, but disagree on a 3 Falcon list. Though that'd be durable scoring units you gotta have some strong backup too, which 2 Fire prisms will definitely provide.

I like Helvost's list! While it is kinda typical for a 1 council jetbike list it's still solid (sorry Helvost but I'm pretty sure I've seen almost that exact list posted on two different forums ). And you have an excuse to field Shining Spears =P although its price is off, most likely the StarLance price wasn't included. I'd use them for fun games, but for more competitive games I'd drop the SSpears and Destructor Lock ( ) to get DAVU Falcon with HoloFields + EML to make sure you have a scoring unit who'll stay. Seer council will tear up stuff while not dieing, double FP and 2 squads of FD will make sure Termies will try and stay in reserve ;D

The various arguements for 2 Falcon/1 Fire Prism vs 1 Falcon/2 Fire Prism are interesting, it seems to really come down to personal preference. I can see Fire Prisms having more effective firepower and highly benefiting from having 2 of them, so that makes sense. I guess I was concerned abotu having more scoring units, but as long as I am defensive till the end game with my Troop Choices, I should be ok sending the Council up to do much of the dirty work. I can see now the disadvantage of having a Reaper launcher on the Autarch if trying to break a transport to shred what's inside, but still ... that's what magnets are for

I would suggest 2 fire prisms or no fire prisms. Although you rarely have to link fire, it is too useful to have. A solo nightspinner will out perform a single fire prism any day. 2 falcons+nightspinner, 2 prisms+falcon or 2 prisms+ nightspinner are the best combos out there.

I personally favor the 2 prisms+spinner nowadays, so I have plenty of templates to go around.

Dr. Serling wrote:I would suggest 2 fire prisms or no fire prisms. Although you rarely have to link fire, it is too useful to have. A solo nightspinner will out perform a single fire prism any day. 2 falcons+nightspinner, 2 prisms+falcon or 2 prisms+ nightspinner are the best combos out there.

I personally favor the 2 prisms+spinner nowadays, so I have plenty of templates to go around.

I know they have some use as anti-tank with the dangerous terrain, etc, but I don't see Night Spinners as fulfilling that purpose as much as the other Grav Tanks, which is what I need my heavy support for in this list; anti Marine/Tank. Combine that with the Falcon ride for a mobile scoring unit, and l think I'm leaning towards the 2 Fire Prisms/1 Falcon variant , after seeing everyone's input.