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Made in us
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot




Where people Live Free, or Die

What is the consensus on the Triarch Stalker?

The new model looks damned sweet, but I'm trying to resist "shiny new model syndrome"

Are they worth the points? What's the best weapon load out for them?



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Made in us
Brigadier General





Texas

Its ok for a Double Multi Melta. Keep them as cheap as possible

Only take it though if you have a lot of shooting though

 
   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord





Take the Heat ray for its double multi-melta goodness, it makes it good against vehicles in mid range (Beam) and hordes (Heavy flamer)

Twin Linked gauss gives it more range, but only one shot at S9, but this formation works far better if you have multiple units that can make up the slack, since if you fail to damage it everything has twin linked against it.

Particle shredder is taken far less than these two, but if you feel the need to have a S7 AP4 large blast against infantry (Or mass vehicle twin linking) It works too
   
Made in us
Brigadier General





Texas

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Twin Linked gauss gives it more range, but only one shot at S9, but this formation works far better if you have multiple units that can make up the slack, since if you fail to damage it everything has twin linked against it.

Particle shredder is taken far less than these two, but if you feel the need to have a S7 AP4 large blast against infantry (Or mass vehicle twin linking) It works too


Problem with the Heavy Gauss is that you are paying a lot for that. In comparison you could take nearly (because I'm rounding up) 3 Heavy Destroyers or 5 Lance Crypteks

Particle Shredder is mainly pure anti infantry with it being a blast and all. Plenty of other guns to do that role cheaper, like Barges


The melta is usually the best because its the cheapest and its the only melta weapon in the Necron Armory

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/24 23:13:48


 
   
Made in us
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm





Common Internet wisdom basically says the Stalker's cons are:

1. They are overpriced. Particularly for how much firepower it has on it. Adding load-outs of the two other weapon options makes that even worse (ie more expensive)
2. Other units in the codex do what this unit does, but better.
3. Most of the Stalker's weapons are mid-range, including its primary gun.
4. They are essentitally a dreadnought without a CC weapon. It is easily tarpitted or simply blown up by a concerted effort to engage in in CC.
5. Suffer from vulnerability to getting its single weapon shot off and thusly being disabled.
6. They don't have a model -- until now.

Good things the Internet says about Stalkers:

1. AV 13 walker is guuud.
2. The twin-linking ability of the gun is fairly a-mazing when you use it right.
3. The versatility of the base gun being both anti-tank and anti-horde is nice.
4. It sits in the Elite slot, which is slot that Necrons typically have free due to our rather abysmal Elite choices.
5. The anti-horde template gun is actually rather good against armies like Orks, 'Nids and the like.

What I've found about the Stalker is that it is an incredibly good add to your army, but it has to be used correctly and has to definitely take advantage of what it is designed to do. The best wisdom I've seen about the Stalker labels it a Force Multiplier.

For those not familiar with what a Force Multiplier is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_multiplication

Force multiplication, in military usage, refers to an attribute or a combination of attributes which make a given force more effective than that same force would be without it. The Stalker does just this. It makes any unit that fires at its target after it that round, that much more effective. This is the force multiplier. This is also the reason why the Stalker has low firepower -- because it is designed to magnify another unit's firepower rather than dish out damage on its own. But is this useful?

The twin-linking effect of the guns is nice. Some people claim it can be "overkill". For example, I want to fire my Stalker early in the round so I shoot at what.... a Rhino or a Razorback? Why would I want to twin-link additional shots against such a minor target? This requires that the Stalker's gun be used against something you expect to throw a lot of firepower at. For instance if you are shooting at a GK terminator or paladin squad with your troops, you want to twin-link as much as you can to maximize firepower. The TL allows you to fire lots of smaller guns on troops and potentially do a lot more damage with them. The "ideal" situation with your Stalker is that you "markerlight" a hardened squad of the enemy and unload small arms firepower like gauss blasters, etc, into it. I want to throw as much small arms fire from my troops as I can at a Terminator squad. Sure they have a 2+ save, but every wound I make with my Necron Warriors is a huge gain for me!

So what this means is that your target choice of what you fire the Stalker at, becomes really paramount to how much success you have with the model. The Stalker is meant for helping to kill hardened "big game" targets on the board.

The second argument you see that carries some weight is that the Stalker is a mid-range model with its guns. That this draws a high profile model close to combat and leaves it very vulnerable to close combat attack and just getting shot to pieces by melta. I agree with this. The Stalker using 24" guns or moving into melta range is just silly. You are going to get torched and your expensive model goes down in flames. The argument that the primary gun on this thing isn't suited for its role is actually true.

So where does this really leave the Stalker as a model in my lists?

1. You get the most of out your Stalker in an army that shoots a lot. If your army is shooting Tesla, it is even better. Re-rolls give more chances for 6s and thus more damage. If you have a lot of CC elements in your army, Stalkers are not a good fit. Stalkers with Annhiliation Barges, Immortals, Ghost Arks, or Nightscythes are awesome. If you like running big bricks of warriors, Stalkers turn that "20 brick" of rapid firing warriors into a death squad. How's 40 twin-linked gauss shots suit you? Try using it with Tomb Blades and watch that blast template gun that it is really start to shine. There isn't a gun in the codex or a unit in the code that shoots that the Stalker doesn't make better with its ability. It makes some units downright lethal.

2. I deploy my stalkers almost always with a Gauss Cannon in the middle of nowhere, in cover. Basically this has the advantage of forcing your enemy to go out of the way to get at your Stalker. You can sit in the back at pot shot at big targets, then pound it into the ground with other guns. My #1 goal is to make my opponent have to make an effort to get my rather entranched Stalker. Plus a strong gun like a Gauss Cannon can do some damage at a pretty long range. This works fairly well.

3. If you are worried about your gun getting blown off you have two options. Add a second Stalker in another location. Rundundency works fairly well. I have run 2 Stalkers to some success. But this might pain people too much due to the point cost. You can also run support Canoptek spyders to kind of "baby sit" your Stalkers and repair their guns of it gets shot off. I've never done this, but I immagine you could have 1 or 2 spyders in your backfield doing repair duty and counter assault.

4. I actually found that I liked the large blast gun on the Stalker. I played them against Orks / 'Nids and really found them effective and clearly swathes of troops. Combine the large blast template of the Stalker with Annihilation Barges, and you sweep Hordes.

5. HIGHLY recommend using the Harbingers of Destruction with these guys. The Str 8 AP 2 gun that becomes TL makes them really effective at killing what they need to kill. Rolling that big shot and missing hurts. Getting a re-roll makes them deadly.

Many of the Internet criticisms I have seen levied against the Stalker are fair. It is expensive, and very niche. It is a vulnerable platform if you don't take care of it. You need to use other elements of the army to offset its weaknesses. In return it "buffs" your army -- it is a symbiotic relationship. The Stalker has to be used with finesse. They are not war machines that you should march right into the thick of combat. They actually are best played as snipers to mark targets you want dead.

Oh, and I have fallen in love with the Deathmark + Harbinger of Despair + Triarch Stalker combo. 10x TL rending shots + TL Str 8 AP 1 flamer that both wound on 2+. That combo just does terrible things to even hardened units.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/04/24 23:27:49


 
   
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The Conquerer






Island of Nunya, Nunya business!

The real benifit to the Stalker is the TL bonus it gives to your other units, not for its actual weapons.

TL-tesla shots are murder. Let me tell you.

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Garden Grove, CA

drakkenj wrote:

4. I actually found that I liked the large blast gun on the Stalker. I played them against Orks / 'Nids and really found them effective and clearly swathes of troops. Combine the large blast template of the Stalker with Annihilation Barges, and you sweep Hordes.

5. HIGHLY recommend using the Harbingers of Destruction with these guys. The Str 8 AP 2 gun that becomes TL makes them really effective at killing what they need to kill. Rolling that big shot and missing hurts. Getting a re-roll makes them deadly.

Oh, and I have fallen in love with the Deathmark + Harbinger of Despair + Triarch Stalker combo. 10x TL rending shots + TL Str 8 AP 1 flamer that both wound on 2+. That combo just does terrible things to even hardened units.


I was thinking bout the Stalker being effective for this very reason. The Particle Shredder is the one that catches my eye for being able to mark multiple units at once.

And my destructeks have usually been whiffing... so the TL would be very nice!

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Brigadier General





Texas

I suppose the large blast is good for TL. can tag a few vehicles that way if someone decided to play Castle

 
   
Made in us
Freaky Flayed One





Twin-linked tesla gets 133% hits per shot as opposed to normal bs4 weapons that only get 88%. Blast weapons also get a larger boost from twin-linking, a roughly 72% chance of direct hits or scattering 0" up from roughly 50%. Also don't overlook their move through cover special rule, they might not get cover easily but skittering around in area terrain can keep them safe from getting bogged down in assault.

If your list isn't built around at least somewhat taking advantage of the twin-linking they're a little too over costed to take just for their own sake.
   
Made in us
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm





Marking more than one unit at once is really a challenge unless your enemy packs their stuff in kinda tight. You can pull this off if your opponent has never fought Stalkers or doesn't expect the blast template. Still tricky and I've never really managed to make it work well. The "not whiffing" with Destroteks is fairly amazing. TL Str 8 AP 2 guns is awesome. Especially if you run 5+ Destroteks. You absolutely want those guns to connect as often as possible with your opponent.

Also, the person who said that it makes Tesla is amazing is 100% right. Stalkers make all Necron shooting better, but really shine best with units like:

1. Annihilation Barges
2. Immortals
3. Nightscythe
4. Tomb Blades (with the blast templates)

People also have sung the praises of Stalkers with Doomsday Arks (since you don't want to miss with that shot), but I honestly agree with everyone's assessment that those are almost irrevocably bad in most sane scenarios of play.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/04/25 01:11:57


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





The main arguements I see against the stalker are the same with most things in the necron book. It requires synergy and unfortunately that is hard for people. It is a army that requires that everything work together to achieve maximum results. So taking it on a unit by unit basis things are going to look sub-par.

If your goal is not destruction but the twin-linking effect than the heavy gauss is better as it allows you to hit targets at a longer range while keeping your stalker safe(especially considering the size of the model).

It fits into a certain army, and if that is not how you want to run your army than it wont work for you.

Heck I was using it to tie up entire units that could not hurt it in CC. Even if they have a fist it takes a 6 to pen. and 4 strength 7 attacks is nothing to sneeze at.

People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer

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Made in us
Freaky Flayed One





Actually annihilation barges and nightscythes are not good playmates for stalkers as tesla destructors come twin-linked by default and you can't re-roll a re-roll.

Also unlisted so far is the doomsday ark, that's a hell of a blast to get a re-roll for.
   
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Prescient Cryptek of Eternity




Canada

I'm curious to try out a pair of Stalkers with three units of Destroyers/Heavy Destroyers. Granted, that's half your 2k army right there, but it has the potential to cause a lot of harm.


...I'm wondering: if the Stalker hits a transport and wrecks it, are the Necrons then TL'd against the unit that would have to emergency disembark from said transport?

Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws.

 
   
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Irked Necron Immortal




New York, USA

So what would be a good weapon to get re-rolls from the stalker for Doomsday arks and immortals(tesla or gauss?) Heavy gauss cannon for range(but lack of chances to hit) Shredder( for large blast and anti-infantry) or heat-ray(for variety) but the shredder and heat-ray are only 24"... so which would be best? Shredder could protect doomsday arks from flanking/deepstriking infantry, gauss cannon have 36" range and heat-ray seems good for a squad of gauss immortals(maybe tesla?) stalker weakens the target and immortla finish it while blocking the stalker from melee. Thoughts?

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Prescient Cryptek of Eternity




Canada

Where Immortals are concerned, there is no question: if you can have TL Tesla, DO IT.

I personally like the Melta option, but it depends on the composition of the rest of your army. If you already have lots of anti-tank, then the Particle Shredder may be your best bet for the diversity.

Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws.

 
   
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I think i'll grab 1-2 when the models come out, they'd fit my force pretty well I think.

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Can you twin-link a twin-link? Ex. a stalker with shredder hits a landraider, can another stalker with twin-linked gauss cannon re-roll twice?

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Exalted Pariah wrote:Can you twin-link a twin-link? Ex. a stalker with shredder hits a landraider, can another stalker with twin-linked gauss cannon re-roll twice?


No, you can never reroll a reroll.

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Made in ca
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity




Canada

However, you can TL the 2nd Particle Shredder, thus creating a large blast that is very deadly to infantry.

Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws.

 
   
Made in gb
Proud Triarch Praetorian





Derby, UK.

I run a predominantly shooty army, so a Stalker is now quite appealing.


personally i woudl put the cannon on it for the extra 12" range. that way it can sit further way in cover, providing Tl shots for my 20 warrior blocks or tesla immortals. sweet!

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Fresh-Faced New User




where do you find the Triarch Stalker model?

im at a loss and where to find it
   
Made in gb
Proud Triarch Praetorian





Derby, UK.

it's not been officilly released yet, but there are leaked pics in the HUGE necron rumour thread, on page 226 i think.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/25 11:52:22


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Longtime Dakkanaut




West Midlands (UK)

[edit]
Ninja'd by Praxiss

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/04/25 12:03:16


   
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drakkenj wrote:

Oh, and I have fallen in love with the Deathmark + Harbinger of Despair + Triarch Stalker combo. 10x TL rending shots + TL Str 8 AP 1 flamer that both wound on 2+. That combo just does terrible things to even hardened units.






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Derby, UK.

Hmmmm. Might have to pick up some Deathmarks to try that out.

man, this shopping list is just growing.... :(

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My problem with the heat ray, is that it only moves six a turn, and most of your guns fire at 24 range. It's also a support shooter, so you'll have to work it into an existing shooting concave, which will be slow and awkward.

You want that support ability to have lots of targets, that means you want it to have more range, or coming into effect for your lances or whatnot earlier.

You are also probably wasting the array ability, as 2 multi meltas shooting into a transport will hopefully be killing it or rendering it useless, making any more shooting at the thing a little silly. At least one would hope it'd be wrecking those buggers, with the 150 pricetag on two shots.

I think I'd like the unit if it had power weapons. it's so big and cumbersome. How much do psy rifle men cost again? For twice the shots at twice the range?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/26 17:56:26


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Stalkers are OK. My issue is they get swamped easily, cost a ton, and you waste melta shots at infantry to make other units twin-linked... so if you really need that much firepower in the first place, why not a particle shredder? At least then you can twin link huge chunks of your opponents army.

That said, I think shooty armies benefit from stalkers far more than assaulty ones. So if you run large chunks of immortals, destroyers, and things, then stalkers are awesome.

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One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm





Lucre wrote:My problem with the heat ray, is that it only moves six a turn, and most of your guns fire at 24 range. It's also a support shooter, so you'll have to work it into an existing shooting concave, which will be slow and awkward.

You want that support ability to have lots of targets, that means you want it to have more range, or coming into effect for your lances or whatnot earlier.

You are also probably wasting the array ability, as 2 multi meltas shooting into a transport will hopefully be killing it or rendering it useless, making any more shooting at the thing a little silly. At least one would hope it'd be wrecking those buggers, with the 150 pricetag on two shots.

I think I'd like the unit if it had power weapons. it's so big and cumbersome. How much do psy rifle men cost again? For twice the shots at twice the range?


Always funny to see the Dreadnought/Psyflemen comparisons start creeping out! Most of this stuff I addressed in my wall of text above. Primarily that you never, never want to shoot your Stalker at the "wrong" target, uh, like a transport.

When I use the Stalker I never use the Heat Ray gun. The Heat Run gun is actually one of the "big" and legitimate things wrong with the vehicle. If the Heat Ray was 36" no one would be having this discussion.

The Stalker suffers from a "range" problem. The two other guns it sports are very good for what they do. The Particle Shredder because it wrecks big squads. The Gauss Cannon because you get the range.
   
Made in gb
Proud Triarch Praetorian





Derby, UK.

if i ran one i woudl most liekly go with the Cannon for the range. As has been siad, the Stalker by itself is nto great, but it comes into its own when you ue it to single out a specific unit (Looking at you *insert death star foot unit*).

Your opponent willlaugh at you for wastign a shot, then start to cry when your Deathmarksand those tesla Immortls suddenyl become TL for an evil mass fire exercise.

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It will be interesting to see how well Stalkers and Arks give each other cover.

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