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Made in gb
[DCM]
Chief Editor






Stockport, UK

Whilst at a tournament yesterday, something came up that was discussed between games, and i'm looking for some opinions on it.

The Ork codex has Exhaust Cloud as this: "Warbikers produces great clouds of smoky exhaust fumes, giving them a 4+ cover save."

What people noted was that it states "Warbikers" in the rule, and it doesn't say "A unit with Exhaust Cloud has a 4+ cover save", it says that the fumes from Warbikers give them a 4+ cover save, leading to people suggesting that units of Nob Bikers cannot benefit, since they are not Warbikers, they are Nob Bikers, with Warbikers being a seperate unit. It was also suggested that since it states it gives 'them' a 4+ cover save in reference to the Warbikers producing the fumes, there are further grounds for it not affecting Nob Bikers.

The general consensus was that Nob Bikers do benefit, purely because it's rules lawyer-y and completely unsportsmanlike to argue otherwise, along with RAI suggesting that Nob Bikers do benefit, since they get the rule when they purchase the bikes.

What i'm asking is what Dakka would say if this came up in their FLGS; douchebaggery and to be ignored? Or something the local GK player might like to know the next time his Psyrifles face a Nob Bikers list, just so he can win even more easily?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/04/30 01:21:02


Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.

Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.

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Maniacal Gibbering Madboy





Are Nobs on Warbikes. if the answer is yes they then they have a 4+cover save (and a 4+ Armour save)

The gear Warbike gives the special rule Exhaust cloud.

So ip so facto a model on a Warbike is a Warbiker.

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on the other hand Nobz they decided it was in the best interest of ork society that they "Go Green" as such they specifically modified their warbikes to not make giant smoke, dust, grit, clouds. Instead they are all about driving with clean air, one might say their bikes Gak out rainbows.

 
   
Made in us
Roarin' Runtherd







actually, the codex says "Any model mounted on a warbike gets +1 to toughness, gains a 4+ armor save, and the Exhaust Cloud special rule"
It's pretty clear that they do get the cover save
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Chief Editor






Stockport, UK

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:Are Nobs on Warbikes. if the answer is yes they then they have a 4+cover save (and a 4+ Armour save)

The gear Warbike gives the special rule Exhaust cloud.

So ip so facto a model on a Warbike is a Warbiker.


A Nob on a Warbike is a Nob Biker, just being on something called a Warbike does not make that model a Warbiker. Also consider the argument that if you want it to be a Warbiker, then they also have to use the profile for a Warbiker, since they are not Nob Bikers or Nobs, they are Warbikers.

marauder6272 wrote:actually, the codex says "Any model mounted on a warbike gets +1 to toughness, gains a 4+ armor save, and the Exhaust Cloud special rule"
It's pretty clear that they do get the cover save


Pretty clear to anybody who isn't trying to poke holes in it, yes, but this is asking about how simple it would be to poke holes and whether or not these holes would be accepted in anyone's FLGS (considering that mine has already ruled in favour of not being arseholes).

Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.

Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.

My deviantART Profile - Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Madness

"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation 
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind




It's like the argument that Warp Field doesn't work for Doom.

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in us
Maniacal Gibbering Madboy





Avatar 720 wrote:
THE_GODLYNESS wrote:Are Nobs on Warbikes. if the answer is yes they then they have a 4+cover save (and a 4+ Armour save)

The gear Warbike gives the special rule Exhaust cloud.

So ip so facto a model on a Warbike is a Warbiker.


A Nob on a Warbike is a Nob Biker, just being on something called a Warbike does not make that model a Warbiker. Also consider the argument that if you want it to be a Warbiker, then they also have to use the profile for a Warbiker, since they are not Nob Bikers or Nobs, they are Warbikers.

marauder6272 wrote:actually, the codex says "Any model mounted on a warbike gets +1 to toughness, gains a 4+ armor save, and the Exhaust Cloud special rule"
It's pretty clear that they do get the cover save


Pretty clear to anybody who isn't trying to poke holes in it, yes, but this is asking about how simple it would be to poke holes and whether or not these holes would be accepted in anyone's FLGS (considering that mine has already ruled in favour of not being arseholes).


Pretty sure they would be called a Nob Warbiker. calling them a nob biker is just shorter and easy to say, just like saying my biker boyz here yaddiy yaddiy yaddiy.

but if some one wants to say my Nob (war)bikers dont get exhaust cloud and they are not shooting a Hvy flamer+ or an impaler cannon at them i will smile and show them the ork dex.

how does one misconstrue "Any model mounted on a warbike gets +1 to toughness, gains a 4+ armor save, and the Exhaust Cloud special rule" seems pretty clear cut. are the nobs on warbikes yes they get exhaust cloud plus other benefits, (TL dakkagun, +1T, 4+ save)

Any one who accepts the holes someone magically made and did not verify it with their own eyes, and just believes what is told to them, when the answer is glaring them in the face, well at some point you cant help but laugh at them.

course if they never played orks before never seen the codex sure then being helpful is the way to go.

but what your saying is people have seen the codex, handled it read it, and then still believe this guy who thinks rules don't exist is right....well i hope they don't play orks then on bikers.

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on the other hand Nobz they decided it was in the best interest of ork society that they "Go Green" as such they specifically modified their warbikes to not make giant smoke, dust, grit, clouds. Instead they are all about driving with clean air, one might say their bikes Gak out rainbows.

 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Chief Editor






Stockport, UK

The line about the Warbikes is not what was being discussed, it was the Exhaust Cloud rule itself. Having the rule =/= Can use the rule. It's very clear that they have the rule, it is whether they benefit or not that is the question.

I am also not saying that they are right. I have in fact stated the exact opposite. Twice.

Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.

Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.

My deviantART Profile - Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Madness

"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation 
   
Made in us
Maniacal Gibbering Madboy





.........I know you have stated that you are in the Yes they can use this rule Group like any other person who has the ability to read.

To Get technical and all, Warbiker would be any model mounted on a Warbike. as it is a personalization? of the word.

i am on a warbike therefore i am a Warbiker.

not i am a warbike yet i am not a warbiker cause you as a person reading this cant make that jump as it is beyond your reading recognition to do 1+1=2

(not saying you of course but any person trying to say what your saying is true,

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on the other hand Nobz they decided it was in the best interest of ork society that they "Go Green" as such they specifically modified their warbikes to not make giant smoke, dust, grit, clouds. Instead they are all about driving with clean air, one might say their bikes Gak out rainbows.

 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Chief Editor






Stockport, UK

rigeld2 wrote:It's like the argument that Warp Field doesn't work for Doom.


Indeed, and that had to be FAQ'd.

Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.

Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.

My deviantART Profile - Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Madness

"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation 
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind




Avatar 720 wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:It's like the argument that Warp Field doesn't work for Doom.


Indeed, and that had to be FAQ'd.

Right. RAW it doesn't work, but this is one case where RAI is absolutely obvious.

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[DCM]
Chief Editor






Stockport, UK

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:.........I know you have stated that you are in the Yes they can use this rule Group like any other person who has the ability to read.

To Get technical and all, Warbiker would be any model mounted on a Warbike. as it is a personalization? of the word.

i am on a warbike therefore i am a Warbiker.

not i am a warbike yet i am not a warbiker cause you as a person reading this cant make that jump as it is beyond your reading recognition to do 1+1=2

(not saying you of course but any person trying to say what your saying is true,


If you knew, then what was "but what your saying is people have seen the codex, handled it read it, and then still believe this guy who thinks rules don't exist is right....well i hope they don't play orks then on bikers." about? Just curious.

As for the rest of your post, what about the counter-argument that states if you are indeed a Warbiker, then you use the rules and profile for a Warbiker as stated in their Ork entry? The Nobs entry says that they may be upgraded to Nob Bikers, and that Nob Bikers have warbikes; it does not say that Nob Bikers are Warbikers, and simply implying that they are because they're riding warbikes is not enough, which is why Lash of Submission was not a PSA pre-FAQ, since all the rule did was imply, not state.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/30 02:03:49


Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.

Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.

My deviantART Profile - Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Madness

"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation 
   
Made in us
Maniacal Gibbering Madboy





it was saying that at some point someone has to say,.....WTF are you talking about. it says right here it gets this this and this.

if no one does this and they play by "this guys rules" then i hope they don't field nob bikers, cause if they are under the belief of what has been said then them (the people playing against said person) would not incorporate them in a list since they dont get a benefit. (well if they believe the guy maybe they still will, mental faculties not withstanding)

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on the other hand Nobz they decided it was in the best interest of ork society that they "Go Green" as such they specifically modified their warbikes to not make giant smoke, dust, grit, clouds. Instead they are all about driving with clean air, one might say their bikes Gak out rainbows.

 
   
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Druid Warder





central florida

Well since the Nobs have access to the wargear - Warbikes, which gives the nob the same rules as warbikers. If there is any doubt with TFG then bring out the codex. Its there black and white.

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Maniacal Gibbering Madboy





Edit.

verbatim here

Warbike: Any model mounted on a warbike adds1 to to his toughness (though not for determining instant death). modifies his troop to bike, gains a 4+ Armour save and the Exhaust Cloud. Warbikes have noisy twin-linked dakkaguns mounted on their bikes. they have the following profile)

edited for misreading.


This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/04/30 02:37:42


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on the other hand Nobz they decided it was in the best interest of ork society that they "Go Green" as such they specifically modified their warbikes to not make giant smoke, dust, grit, clouds. Instead they are all about driving with clean air, one might say their bikes Gak out rainbows.

 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Chief Editor






Stockport, UK

It actually says "Warbikes have noisy..." in the copy i've got here, not Warbikers.

Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.

Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.

My deviantART Profile - Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Madness

"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation 
   
Made in us
Maniacal Gibbering Madboy





so yes if you wish to say this or some one else does and they argue this, just smile and pack up. or in a tourney call the TO over and have them back hand said person for such insolence as insulting ork stuff.

why do orks do what they do and how does there stuff work.

it just does dont ask questions for there aren't any answers, just the way it is.

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on the other hand Nobz they decided it was in the best interest of ork society that they "Go Green" as such they specifically modified their warbikes to not make giant smoke, dust, grit, clouds. Instead they are all about driving with clean air, one might say their bikes Gak out rainbows.

 
   
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[MOD]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

In the INAT council we refer to this as a "BK101" ruling. Which means an answer sufficiently obvious that it doesn't merit argument.

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rigeld2 wrote:It's like the argument that Warp Field doesn't work for Doom.

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Maniacal Gibbering Madboy





It just occurred to me that warbikers being orky to the extreme do not care about the environment and such so they drive reckless and make big clouds of exhaust and dirt and grit etc.

on the other hand Nobz they decided it was in the best interest of ork society that they "Go Green" as such they specifically modified their warbikes to not make giant smoke, dust, grit, clouds. Instead they are all about driving with clean air, one might say their bikes Gak out rainbows.

Clearly this is because they are the nicest and caring orks in all of orkdom.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/30 13:33:23


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on the other hand Nobz they decided it was in the best interest of ork society that they "Go Green" as such they specifically modified their warbikes to not make giant smoke, dust, grit, clouds. Instead they are all about driving with clean air, one might say their bikes Gak out rainbows.

 
   
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Trustworthy Shas'vre






Dorset, UK

rigeld2 wrote:It's like the argument that Warp Field doesn't work for Doom.


Keep On Topic, Please.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/03 09:25:01


 
   
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The Hive Mind




GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:It's like the argument that Warp Field doesn't work for Doom.


Keep On Topic, Please.

That was on topic. The two arguments are very similar.

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[DCM]
Chief Editor






Stockport, UK

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:It's like the argument that Warp Field doesn't work for Doom.


Keep On Topic, Please.


Please avoid bumping dead threads with unnecessary comments.

Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.

Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.

My deviantART Profile - Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Madness

"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation 
   
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Trustworthy Shas'vre






Dorset, UK

Avatar 720 wrote:
GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:It's like the argument that Warp Field doesn't work for Doom.


Keep On Topic, Please.


Please avoid bumping dead threads with unnecessary comments.


I had no Knowledge of it being a dead thread, in fact, it was top of the list under this heading.

Plus, surely your post is achieving the same outcome

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/03 15:30:04


 
   
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Dominating Dominatrix






Belfast,Capitol of Northern Ireland. About 10 minutes away from the ONLY GW STORE IN THE COUNTRY!

What this thread basically is is RAW combined with being TFG. RAW only warbikers.

RAW only the 4 to 9 Space Marines in a squad can benefit from ATSKNF as it says "Space Marines."

RAW Calgar and Kantor can't use Orb Bombardment as they are not "Chapter Masters."

RAW Cassius doesn't get Liturgies of Battle as he is not a "Chaplain."

Lysander and Master of the Forge are.not "Techmarines" so Bolster defences and Blessing of the Omnissiah are useless. MotF cannot benefit from Servo harnasses for the same.

Scout Sergeants and Telion may not go.inside a LSS as they are not scouts.

Land Raider Crusaders and Redeemers PotMS effectiveless as they are not" Land Raiders". Assault Vehicle too.

Any Terminator Sgt or Character wearing TDA only counts as one model for Transport, may do a SA and may get in Rhinoes Razors. Only Terminators (Ie, the squad members except the Sgt) is stopped from doing those. However, a "model wearing TDA may deep strike, has relentless and 2+/5++" so the still count.

Tiguirius Psychic hood doesn't work (other than making.him.Mastery Lvl 3) because he is not a Librarian.and.they only.work for Libbies. Also, Might of the Ancients, Quickening, GoI, Null Zone and force dome don't work with Tiguirius for the same. He doesn't nuke himself for failing his Vortex of Doom either.




Just a list of what would happen if RAW was as strictly adhered to as the OP says. And that is just C:SM.

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Deadshot wrote:What this thread basically is is RAW combined with being TFG. RAW only warbikers.

RAW only the 4 to 9 Space Marines in a squad can benefit from ATSKNF as it says "Space Marines."

RAW Calgar and Kantor can't use Orb Bombardment as they are not "Chapter Masters."

RAW Cassius doesn't get Liturgies of Battle as he is not a "Chaplain."

Lysander and Master of the Forge are.not "Techmarines" so Bolster defences and Blessing of the Omnissiah are useless. MotF cannot benefit from Servo harnasses for the same.

Scout Sergeants and Telion may not go.inside a LSS as they are not scouts.

Land Raider Crusaders and Redeemers PotMS effectiveless as they are not" Land Raiders". Assault Vehicle too.

Any Terminator Sgt or Character wearing TDA only counts as one model for Transport, may do a SA and may get in Rhinoes Razors. Only Terminators (Ie, the squad members except the Sgt) is stopped from doing those. However, a "model wearing TDA may deep strike, has relentless and 2+/5++" so the still count.

Tiguirius Psychic hood doesn't work (other than making.him.Mastery Lvl 3) because he is not a Librarian.and.they only.work for Libbies. Also, Might of the Ancients, Quickening, GoI, Null Zone and force dome don't work with Tiguirius for the same. He doesn't nuke himself for failing his Vortex of Doom either.




Just a list of what would happen if RAW was as strictly adhered to as the OP says. And that is just C:SM.


If someone tried to pull any of this on me, I would just ignore it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/03 18:20:15


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Waaagh! Warbiker




Actually, this is quite a useful marker.

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wales

its the same situation as the doom whether it gets the the warp field but if some one tries that you can beat them over the head with the hard back rule book. its taking raw way to far

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Dominating Dominatrix






Belfast,Capitol of Northern Ireland. About 10 minutes away from the ONLY GW STORE IN THE COUNTRY!

That was FAQed. All special Nid characters count as what the rule says. So Swarmlord can use Tyrant powers, Ymgarl stealers coumt as Stealers.for Brood Telepathy and Doom is a Zoanthrope for WF, among the others.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/04 02:04:08


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The Hive Mind




Deadshot wrote:That was FAQed. All special Nid characters count as what the rule says. So G
Swarmlord can use Tyrant powers, Ymgarl stealers coumt as Steers.for Brood Telepathy and Doom is a Zoanthrope for WF, among the others.

Right. And since this situation is very similar, and the rule doesn't function as written, applying a similar fix here makes sense.

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