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2012/05/11 00:31:21
Subject: The Resiliency of Wraithwing - 2K Games vs Grey Knights and Deathwing (Game #2 Completed on p.2)
Had two test games. Wanted to test out how resilient a Wraithwing Necron build can be. So I setup 2 games against builds which I think may be problematic for them. First is an infantry-based GK list with a lot of the characteristics that a wraithwing would not like - volume-of-fire (S5 stormbolter-spam), Nemesis force weapons, psyfleman dreads and 2+ paladins. The second is a Deathwing list with 30 assault terminators. 2+ saves and massed missiles and thunderhammers are arguably a wraithwing army's worst nightmare.
Yes, the opponent here is myself. I have a lot of experience playing the grey knights, but this will actually be the first time I will be playing deathwing. While I am new to deathwing, I have played assault terminator-heavy lists before so I don't think the learning curve would be all too different. The reason for these test games is to give more data for my Wraithwing Tactica which I am currently working on.
Often times, I like to try things out in my test games. This time, I went for souped-up, ultra-beefy Overlords. I went for my tremor-crons rather than my usual shooty lance-teks. I also decided to give Gaze of Death a try to see if it was of any use at all, though in my true TAC wraithwing list, I wouldn't be running it. Finally, I only ran 1 annihilation barge because I've only got a total of 3 barges to be used between annihilation and command barges.
Im guessing draw with grey nights because its capture and control. Guessing you beat deathwing becuase even though terminators can deepstrike you easily out "mobile" them. This will definetly I think show itself on a seize ground mission.
Sisters 1500
2012/05/11 05:31:28
Subject: Re:The Resiliency of Wraithwing - 2K Games vs Grey Knights and Deathwing
Necron Tactics: Very straightforwards really. Just advance everything except the troops towards the GK objective. Kill anything in the way. Help out against the paladins and try to kill off those grey knights on their own assault phase. Except for my lone lance-tek, I'm afraid I'm going to have to ignore those psyfleman dreads initially. Finally, tremor those interceptors and paladins to slow them down.
Grey knights will probably only get 1 turn of shooting before my units are upon them. The key to a necron victory will probably be how well they can endure that 1 turn of shooting.
Grey Knight Tactics: Advance the paladins and shove them right down the necron's throat. Will use them to slow the advancement of the wraiths, and if he decides to ignore those paladins, then head straight for the necron objective. Interceptors will try for a late-game contest. Focus-fire S5 stormbolters on the wraiths and then finish them off in assault if necessary. They should be weakened substantially by then from the shooting. Psyflemans will go after the command barges.
Necrons may be fast, but I am confident I can weaken them substantially from shooting to the point where my knights can take them on in assault.
Grey knights advance 6". Necrons use their Solar Pulse.
2 units see and shoot at the left and middle wraith squads. They kill 1 regular and put 1W on the particle caster on the left unit. They also kill 1 whip coil from the middle unit.
Necrons 1
Spoiler:
Left command barge moves flat-out and sweeps the paladins. He hits twice (rolled 1 6) and puts 1W on both the warding stave and Grandmaster.
The right command barge sweeps the interceptors. Again I roll a 6 to hit and allocate it on the warding stave, thus killing him.
Necrons advance.
Tremor-teks put all 3 units - paladins, non-warding stave strikers and interceptors - in difficult terrain. Annihilation barge shoots down 2 strikers behind the paladins. The shot then arcs and hits the paladins, putting another 1W on a psycannon.
Grey Knights 2
Spoiler:
Paladins advance. The wounded psycannon then dies to dangerous terrain due to the C'tan's Writhing Worldscape. Grandmaster also takes another 1W to dangerous terrain (1W left).
The other grey knights stay still. Didn't want to let anyone else die to dangerous terrain. Also wanted to fire my psycannons at full strength.
Left psyfleman blows up the command barge. Interceptors then set their psycannons to assault mode and shoot at the Overlord, putting 2W on him.
Right psyfleman and strikers only manage to stun the right command barge.
Middle and left strikers fire at the left wraiths, taking down 3 of them.
Paladins fire at the middle wraiths, killing 1 regular wraith and putting 1W on a whip coil.
Then we go to assault. I interceptor dies while charging through dangerous terrain. Mindshackle goes off, though it affects the psycannon model only. Interceptors cast Hammerhand.
They then beat down the Overlord and spread out with their consolidation.
Finally, paladins make the charge (they needed 5" and got it), though the banner takes 1W due to dangerous terrain.
The results are spectacular as the paladins kill off 3 wraiths and put 1W on the particle caster after No Retreat saves.
Fortunately for the necrons in what was a brutal turn, the Overlord gets back up.
Necrons 2
Spoiler:
The 3 wraiths go after the interceptors. The wounded Overlord goes after the non-warding stave strikers.
C'tan and right wraiths go to help out on the paladins.
The right Overlord disembarks and get ready to assault the right strikers (with warding stave).
Annihilation barge shoots at the right strikers and kill 3. They pass morale.
Lance-tek fails to do anything to a psyfleman.
Then it's off to assault.
Left Overlord assault the middle strikers (without warding stave). Strikers cast Hammerhand.
Right Overlord assault the right strikers.
C'tan and wraiths join into the paladin-wraith melee.
Wraiths kill both psycannons and take no damage in return.
Interceptors then fail morale and break.
Left Overlord kills 4 strikers from assault and mindshackles. The hammer then returns the favor and ends his life.
He does not get back up.
On the right, mindshackles kill 1 psycannon. The Overlord then gets force-weaponed to death.
Strikers then spread out to try to prevent him from coming back.
But he is still able to come back to life.
Finally, in the the main event, the C'tan kills the Grandmaster and the wraiths kill the warding stave. However, they would lose 2 wraiths to hammers.
Grey Knights 3
Spoiler:
Overview of the top of Turn 3.
Interceptors run off the board.
Strikers go after the the 3 wraiths. 2 of them die to dangerous terrain while going down the hill (we played the hills as normal terrain, however, going up or down them was difficult).
Middle strikers go to help out the paladins. Right strikers get ready to down the Overlord....again.
Strikers blast the wraiths, killing 1 and putting 1W on another.
Psyflemans then stun the command barge and shake the annihilation barge. Both vehicles then Living Metals it off.
Strikers then asault the wraiths....and lose 2 more to dangerous terrain!!!
Middle strikers make it into combat with the wraiths. They all pass their dangerous terrain tests.
Strikers cause 1W, killing the wounded wraith. Wraiths, however, still win combat due to the 2 failed DT tests. Strikers stay locked in combat.
Once again, the right strikers kill the Overlord in combat. This time, he stays down.
Finally, in the middle scrum, grey knights fail to do any damage and wraiths (or maybe the C'tan) kill off the banner.
Necrons 3
Spoiler:
Command barge moves flat-out.
Annihilation barge advances 6".
Annihilation barge blasts the strikers, killing the psycannon and warding stave guys. Tremor-tek then puts them in difficult terrain.
Lance-tek continues to not hurt the dreads.
In combat, the lone wraith survives with just 1W left.
Finally, necrons kill off the hammerdin and 1 striker and take no damage in return.
Both units then break and fall back.
Grey Knights 4
Spoiler:
Overview of the top of Turn 4.
GK movement. Dreads try to slow down the fallback of the knights, who continue falling back.
You know what's the best unit for taking out wraiths in this game, at least in my experience? Psyflemans.
Each psyfleman wipes out a unit of wraiths.
Strikers then put 2W on the C'tan.
Finally, strikers wipe out the very last wraith left.
Necrons 4
Spoiler:
C'tan and the annihilation barge advances. The command barge moves flat-out. That's basically all the offense that the crons have got left (and the warriors).
Tremor-teks put both strike squads in difficult terrain. Lance-tek continues to do nothing.
The C'tan then charges the only unit within reach (other than the soladin falling back)....
....and blows him up.
Grey Knights 5
Spoiler:
Overview of the top of Turn 5.
Not much left for either armies at this point.
Despite dangerous terrain, left strikers go after the command barge.
Grey knights continue to fall back. Dread goes to try to stall the C'tan Lord.
Left strikers blow up the command barge. 1 striker dies from the explosion. It takes the psyfleman, soladin and strikers to put 1W on the C'tan.
Psyfleman then charges. His gambit succeeds as the C'tan rolls 1,2 and 2,2 to not penetrate the dread.
Necrons 5
Spoiler:
The annihilation barge moves 12" to make sure that the grey knights would keep on falling back.
Lance-tek then takes a shot at the strikers and kills 1. They then fail Morale!!!
And run off the board!!! Wow, what a lucky break for the crons. Lance-tek had been fail all game and then all of a sudden, he scores in the clutch!
Tremor-teks fail to hit the other strike squad.
Finally, in assault the C'tan immobilizes the dread.
Currently, the crons have got their objective. Grey knights just ran off of theirs. If the game ends now, it would be a necron victory.
We roll to see if the game ends and fortunately for the knights, it continues.
Grey Knights 6
Spoiler:
Both the strike squad and soladin runs off the table.
Strikers make a move for their objective.
They run a mighty 6" but it looks like they may still be out.
Necrons had a clutch moment. Now so do the grey knights as the dread is able to finish off C'tan just before exploding.
Necrons 6
Spoiler:
Annihilation barge moves 12" to contest.
Tremor-tek kills 1 interceptor and puts them in difficult terrain.
If the game ends now, it will still be necron victory with 1 objective to none.
Fortune then decides to give the grey knights one last chance....
Grey Knights 7
Spoiler:
Grey knights get in position to shoot and then assault the barge. Destroy it and they may tie....assuming they are within range to claim the objective.
Fail and it would be a necron victory.
They blow it up!
Necrons 7
Spoiler:
Crons are not able to do anything to the knights.
Game ends.
Necrons easily have their objective....
....and the grey knights are just barely in range of theirs.
Draw!!!
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/05/12 01:26:01
Zid wrote:Interesting games... Look forward to em!
P.s. think dual vindis woulda suited the deathwing list better
I prefer the mobility of the land speeders. Highly versatile and gives them the mobility that they are lacking after doing their deathwing assault.
Now if only the vindis were fast like BA vindis....
whitespirit wrote:Im guessing draw with grey nights because its capture and control. Guessing you beat deathwing becuase even though terminators can deepstrike you easily out "mobile" them. This will definetly I think show itself on a seize ground mission.
Also, something to consider about deathwing. Their troops outnumber the necron troops 6 to 3 in a 5-objective game, plus they've got 3 land speeders which can be used for contesting purposes and necrons have little to shoot them down with.
skoffs wrote:Nail biter!
...
but then, in the SWMSU game, the Necrons had an even worse beginning, but still came back to win in the end.
It's going to be a very back-and-forth game. In other words, a good one....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/11 15:14:06
That is a bold necron list. Just does not seem like a lot to put down on the table.
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
2012/05/11 17:34:20
Subject: The Resiliency of Wraithwing - 2K Games vs Grey Knights and Deathwing
Something to consider, if you feel you don't have the models left to prevent EL/RP on the Overlords try forming a "U" around the counter so you can force where he moves in the next movement phase Now he can only stay to recharge or head toward the exit!
Also, remember tremor staves only work in the next Movement phase, so those casualties and terrain tests from assault moves shouldn't have occurred.... Unless I missed a FAQ.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/11 17:35:07
pretre wrote:That is a bold necron list. Just does not seem like a lot to put down on the table.
Yeah, it's not my standard wraithwing list. My standard list does not include my tremorcrons. Instead, it's got more shooting with 7 lance-teks, 4 troop choices and 1 more annihilation barge.
This was more of an experimental list.
Red Corsair wrote:Great game so far, very violent
Something to consider, if you feel you don't have the models left to prevent EL/RP on the Overlords try forming a "U" around the counter so you can force where he moves in the next movement phase Now he can only stay to recharge or head toward the exit!
Also, remember tremor staves only work in the next Movement phase, so those casualties and terrain tests from assault moves shouldn't have occurred.... Unless I missed a FAQ.
That's a good tactic to keep in mind.
Some of the dangerous tests weren't due to the tremor-staves. They were due to actually moving through terrain made dangerous by the C'tan. Moving up and down the hills was difficult. Also, some of the assaults had to go through the craters.
motyak wrote:I've never seen anyone fail so many DT tests...thats really quite unlucky.
Yeah, they were failing a lot of DT tests initially, but towards the end when it really counted, the knights were making their DT tests.
Bronzino88 wrote:Pretty sure failing DT while charging dosent count towards combat res.
I'm pretty sure they do, but I don't have my rulebook at the moment.
Anyone want to chime in on this issue?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/05/12 01:36:05
It doesn't help when you tailor a list to beat on foot armies. Both gk and death wing are both all foot lists. What was the point of that? Why not play the Necrons List against a all mech army and then really see if it can overcome that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Btw. The terrain on the table was so scarce. Do you have any more? It might help to see more terrain on the table than that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/12 03:14:05
nWo blackshirts GT Team Member
http://inthenameofsangunius.blogspot.com/?m=1
2012/05/12 03:33:44
Subject: The Resiliency of Wraithwing - 2K Games vs Grey Knights and Deathwing (Game #1 Completed)
Thanks for the report. We need a 'donate to get jy2 more terrain' thread so people will stop picking on you.
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
2012/05/12 03:53:09
Subject: Re:The Resiliency of Wraithwing - 2K Games vs Grey Knights and Deathwing (Game #1 Completed)
Well done battle Jy2 seeing a lot of strengths and weaknesses of both teams. Here are two ideas I have had concerning testing your necron MTO build.
1. put LOS blocking terrain in center(cans or ruins) I know you probably have left the middle area a lil more open to make it even or to concentrate all the fighting in the center,however
I think doing this will serve you well by seeing the change from central confrontation vs flanks.
2.Maybe use a list or two from adepticon top seed. These may not be optimal ,but I think you will learn a lot more and/or it may challenge you as a player to play both sides to their best potential.
At first I thought you had forgot to give units(outflanking,scoring,etc but then I noticed no Draigo) do you think this would have made the list more challenging or would have made them weaker?
Also curious if you during the match counted how many attacks both from shooting and close combat were made vs the wraiths. I am curious to see how close they are to the "Mathhammering Theories"
Sisters 1500
2012/05/12 03:57:22
Subject: The Resiliency of Wraithwing - 2K Games vs Grey Knights and Deathwing (Game #1 Completed)
If that's the case, then I've played it wrong. Still, I'll check on my rulebook when I get back.
It doesn't help when you tailor a list to beat on foot armies. Both gk and death wing are both all foot lists. What was the point of that? Why not play the Necrons List against a all mech army and then really see if it can overcome that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Btw. The terrain on the table was so scarce. Do you have any more? It might help to see more terrain on the table than that.
So why do you think this list is tailored to beat foot armies? I'm assuming you're talking about the wraithwing list. I feel that it can take on mech lists as well. I normally face nothing but mech lists with my crons, from 8-15 vehicles sometimes. What they haven't really faced before are some dangerous foot lists. BTW, I never used the C'tan's Gaze in either games.
I have some more terrain, though none of them are really high. I mainly use those terrain as area terrain.
BTW, more terrain in this case will benefit the tremorcrons. Then I may be accused of terrain-tailoring as well.
pretre wrote:Thanks for the report. We need a 'donate to get jy2 more terrain' thread so people will stop picking on you.
I do actually listen to the readers....a little. Just ordered a pretty cool, taller piece of necron-themed terrain. I'll eventually add more terrain...in time.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
whitespirit wrote:Well done battle Jy2 seeing a lot of strengths and weaknesses of both teams. Here are two ideas I have had concerning testing your necron MTO build.
1. put LOS blocking terrain in center(cans or ruins) I know you probably have left the middle area a lil more open to make it even or to concentrate all the fighting in the center,however
I think doing this will serve you well by seeing the change from central confrontation vs flanks.
2.Maybe use a list or two from adepticon top seed. These may not be optimal ,but I think you will learn a lot more and/or it may challenge you as a player to play both sides to their best potential.
At first I thought you had forgot to give units(outflanking,scoring,etc but then I noticed no Draigo) do you think this would have made the list more challenging or would have made them weaker?
Also curious if you during the match counted how many attacks both from shooting and close combat were made vs the wraiths. I am curious to see how close they are to the "Mathhammering Theories"
In this case, LOS-blocking terrain right in the middle will give my necrons too much of an advantage. Right now, opponents only have 1 turn of shooting at them. Place a larger LOS-blocking terrain may deny them even that (with the use of Solar Pulses). To make it fairer, I placed the 2" hill in the middle. It is high enough to block LOS to standard infantry. It will give cover to tanks, but more importantly, it will also let the opponents shoot at my taller wraiths.
I could use the Adepticon lists, but it wouldn't really be the same. It's the player behind those lists that makes them special and so good.
However, I may play against Reece's footdar (made it to the Top 8 in Adepticon) with my crons in the near future. That'll be a real treat. 2 very synergistic foot armies run by 2 good generals.
I didn't forget about Grand Strategy. I give 3 units the ability to re-roll 1's wound (though I actually forgot about it initially). Don't think Draigo would have made too much difference here besides giving the knights 1 extra scoring unit (paladins). Still, he is Draigo....
While I didn't really keep track, I believe shooting in this game did more damage than assault, at least against the wraiths.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/05/12 05:36:19
I would guess your shooting would bare more fruit, I man, each striker has 2 shots to one in combat, each are st 5 assuming hammer hand, but the ranged attacks hit on 3's rather then 4's. Makes sense anyway, unless you tried NFW instead.
BWT has anyone mapped out the size foot print required to box out or prevent an EL/RP from an Overlord? It seems like it would need to be a horde.
I think you should try pitting nids against the crons in the future. I feel like they have the best tools for wraithwings. Massed poison attacks. Bone swords, IDK maybe not but I feel they could do well.
Red Corsair wrote:I would guess your shooting would bare more fruit, I man, each striker has 2 shots to one in combat, each are st 5 assuming hammer hand, but the ranged attacks hit on 3's rather then 4's. Makes sense anyway, unless you tried NFW instead.
BWT has anyone mapped out the size foot print required to box out or prevent an EL/RP from an Overlord? It seems like it would need to be a horde.
I think you should try pitting nids against the crons in the future. I feel like they have the best tools for wraithwings. Massed poison attacks. Bone swords, IDK maybe not but I feel they could do well.
Yeah, I think torrent-of-fire in this case is better than massed NFW attacks, at least from strike squads. GK's definitely have more shots (2) than attacks (1) and their shots are more accurate (hitting on 3's instead of 4's) and wounds easier (3's instead of 4's....if the GK's cast Hammerhand then they can't use their force weapons).
Psyflemans are just plain brutal against wraiths. My wraiths can survive just fine against meltas and missiles, but they fall like dominoes against psyflemans. Go figure.
My 7-man strike unit couldn't spread out far enough. I'm guessing you need perhaps a 10-man unit with a good consolidation roll to stop EL from happening (or other units nearby). With a 3" radius and a base of 1", the EL model actually has a 7" diameter to get up from and only the edge of his base needs to touch that 7" diameter.
I have a "date" against Janthkin next week. I'm bringing either my MTO crons or wraithwing (probably wraithwing). He may bring nids, or he may bring an experimental necron list. Maybe you will get to see some live wraiths-vs-genestealer action, though my wraiths were pretty brutal against his stealers last time we played. Whip coils and terrain can really mess up those stealers badly.
I'm also pretty sure that DT deaths do not count to combat rez.
You take the DT tests before combat starts. On page 39, you also only count wounds that are inflicted during the combat. The stuff that happens before combat do not count into this.
Definate nail biter at the end though I'm not really all that impressed by the gk list. I may also shunt the interceptors to get rear hits on the barges. Feels like they were just being used like another set of strike knights. Also when they broke and fell back, were they using their 3d6 break test because of jump infantry status? Didn't look like they went that far on that. Could have potentially put them out where ATSKNF might kick in.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/12 06:33:32
+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
2012/05/12 06:44:23
Subject: Re:The Resiliency of Wraithwing - 2K Games vs Grey Knights and Deathwing (Game #1 Completed)
sudojoe wrote:I'm also pretty sure that DT deaths do not count to combat rez.
You take the DT tests before combat starts. On page 39, you also only count wounds that are inflicted during the combat. The stuff that happens before combat do not count into this.
Definate nail biter at the end though I'm not really all that impressed by the gk list. I may also shunt the interceptors to get rear hits on the barges. Feels like they were just being used like another set of strike knights.
10x Interceptors - 2x Psycannon, Psybolt, Hammer, Stave - 335
Psyfleman - 135
Psyfleman - 135
Psyfleman - 135
2000
However, I felt that the unit of paladins might represent a tougher challenge to the necrons and modified it as such.
The interceptors were the only units in this army with any mobility. While they didn't do as well here, I felt that they were necessary in a TACGK foot list.
I didn't want to shunt the interceptors too early as they would have just been gobbled up by the wraiths if left unsupported. Then they got hit by the tremorstaves and I didn't feel like killing off 1/3 of the unit by moving them.
Besides, whether jump infantry or not, my goal initially was to take down those wraiths with massed stormbolters and psycannons. For that purpose, better to leave the interceptors with the rest of the army for support and to torrent the wraiths.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/12 06:47:01
The interceptors were the only units in this army with any mobility. While they didn't do as well here, I felt that they were necessary in a TACGK foot list.
I didn't want to shunt the interceptors too early as they would have just been gobbled up by the wraiths if left unsupported. Then they got hit by the tremorstaves and I didn't feel like killing off 1/3 of the unit by moving them
.
Ahh I see what you were trying to do there. In those cases I usually would do 2 squads of them then. or just combat squad them. For late game contesting and the like, I try my best to keep them safe and then pop out to shut deep in and contest by turn 5. They were kind of left out in the front to blunt the left flank of the wraiths from their deployment. (or at least a single 5 man squad of them off to the side or something)
Something I noticed about wraiths is that str 8+ shooting is my best counter against them. 3+ to hit then 2+ to wound, vs 4+ to hit and 4 + to wound with same 3++ save (not to mention the force weapon tests) the choice is mathmatically in my favor.They are harder to take down in melee but I had never really got a chance to force weapon them so I usually exploit interceptor mobility by shooting rear armor whenever possible. I then follow the age old ork know'whats by shoot the choppy ones and chop the shooty ones.
+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
2012/05/12 07:08:55
Subject: The Resiliency of Wraithwing - 2K Games vs Grey Knights and Deathwing (Game #1 Completed)
Yeah, I really should have considered combat-squadding in this game. I think it might have made a difference here.
Though on the flip side, I'm not sure those 5-man units would have been able to take out those 2 Overlords.
It's strange that meltas and missiles weren't able to kill my wraiths but psyflemans were. So far in all my games, psyflemans have had the most success against the wraiths.
jy2 wrote:Yeah, I really should have considered combat-squadding in this game. I think it might have made a difference here.
Though on the flip side, I'm not sure those 5-man units would have been able to take out those 2 Overlords.
It's strange that meltas and missiles weren't able to kill my wraiths but psyflemans were. So far in all my games, psyflemans have had the most success against the wraiths.
Well I think the strike squads can do fine as 10 man blobs but for interceptors I like to leave as 5's is bceause of contesting capabilities. If I dump 2 squads of them into your HQ objective, one on either side of a defending unit, it would force them to split their fire and likely would only be able to charge and possibly kill one squad while the other can go to mess with the objective/keep contesting/kill things off it if there is another turn. (yes multi-assaulting would still be an issue though it wouldn't really matter as much since once again it gets both squads into combat and wierdly enough would like you potentially get one squad to str 5 and still let them force weapon activate) Also can use one as dedicated tank hunters with the 2 psycannons for shunt move or even just their 12' jump troop move and the other with more melee to use as a screen or vice versa.
*edit* oh snap, I passed my 1000'th post while in this thread. It is now an epic thread! rawr!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/12 07:23:00
+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
2012/05/12 07:47:03
Subject: The Resiliency of Wraithwing - 2K Games vs Grey Knights and Deathwing (Game #1 Completed)
jy2 wrote:BTW, I never used the C'tan's Gaze in either games.
Can you choose to not use it? My reading of it is that the ability goes off whether you want it to or not. Am I wrong?
Well, according to the wording in the codex, there's no "may" or "can" used, so it sounds like it goes off automatically once the combat the C'tan is involved with has concluded.
Might have made quite a difference to this game (either he could have wiped out some those models that ended up scoring the GK objective, OR he could have drained some of the wounds out of the Wraiths in that big scrum he was involved with in the center of the table).
Either way, he probably would have had enough wounds left to have lasted him till the end of the game.
2012/05/12 15:05:22
Subject: The Resiliency of Wraithwing - 2K Games vs Grey Knights and Deathwing (Game #1 Completed)
sudojoe wrote:
Well I think the strike squads can do fine as 10 man blobs but for interceptors I like to leave as 5's is bceause of contesting capabilities. If I dump 2 squads of them into your HQ objective, one on either side of a defending unit, it would force them to split their fire and likely would only be able to charge and possibly kill one squad while the other can go to mess with the objective/keep contesting/kill things off it if there is another turn. (yes multi-assaulting would still be an issue though it wouldn't really matter as much since once again it gets both squads into combat and wierdly enough would like you potentially get one squad to str 5 and still let them force weapon activate) Also can use one as dedicated tank hunters with the 2 psycannons for shunt move or even just their 12' jump troop move and the other with more melee to use as a screen or vice versa.
*edit* oh snap, I passed my 1000'th post while in this thread. It is now an epic thread! rawr!
I rarely ever combat-squad, but I agree with you in this case. Splitting up just the interceptors would've made a lot of sense here.
And congrats on being a 1k'er. This thread is now blessed.
Fafnir13 wrote:
jy2 wrote:BTW, I never used the C'tan's Gaze in either games.
Can you choose to not use it? My reading of it is that the ability goes off whether you want it to or not. Am I wrong?
Great game, really like the impression towards the end of the army fleeing the approaching shard. Wasn't exactly the case, but it makes a fun image.
That's a good point. I was under the impression that the ability was optional, but after looking at it again, maybe not. Definitely would have changed how I would have played it with regards to multi-assaults had I been aware.
In game #2, I totally forgot that I even had that power.
Time's Arrrow also looks interesting. I may try out that power in the future.
skoffs wrote:
Fafnir13 wrote:
jy2 wrote:BTW, I never used the C'tan's Gaze in either games.
Can you choose to not use it? My reading of it is that the ability goes off whether you want it to or not. Am I wrong?
Well, according to the wording in the codex, there's no "may" or "can" used, so it sounds like it goes off automatically once the combat the C'tan is involved with has concluded.
Might have made quite a difference to this game (either he could have wiped out some those models that ended up scoring the GK objective, OR he could have drained some of the wounds out of the Wraiths in that big scrum he was involved with in the center of the table).
Either way, he probably would have had enough wounds left to have lasted him till the end of the game.
I definitely would have used him differently had I known, though I'm not sure how much of a difference it would've made. After the combat in the middle with the paladins, the psyflemans ended up wiping out all 4 wraiths anyways with their insta-killing shots. At that point, the C'tan was still at full strength.
In the assault with the 1st dread, I destroyed the dread and wasn't sure if I could use the power afterwards as there was no more combat. There was, however, 2 models in range of my power, but I decided I couldn't use the power as I am no longer in combat once I killed the dread. May have to ask about this in YMDC.
In the assault with the 2nd dread, I didn't even consider using the power. Should have, though, as there were 2-3 models in its area of effect (besides the dread).
That might have been game-changing had I used it though. If I could have recovered even 1W, I should have survived combat with the 2nd dread and went on to either contest the objective or more likely, table the grey knights.
Some unlucky dice rolls for the GK really made that first one a stretch.... Look forward to game 2
@jy2: I was recommending dropping 1 terminator squad for the 2 vindis. You should be able to scrape a few extra points elseware if you needed. Double vindis, 3 speeders, and 5 termi squads is no joke!
As for gaze of death, it doesn't look optional as it has the drawback of hitting friendlies. Also it goes off after all blows have been struck in the C'tan's combat with no other qualificatons (other than being in the assault phase). The strictest interpretation of that would require the C'tan to have been in combat at some point in phase but the ability does not require being in combat when it goes off.
So yeah automatic s3 power weapon hits that regenerate wounds if successful to all models in 5" sign me up.
2012/05/12 18:34:40
Subject: The Resiliency of Wraithwing - 2K Games vs Grey Knights and Deathwing (Game #1 Completed)
Zid wrote:Some unlucky dice rolls for the GK really made that first one a stretch.... Look forward to game 2
@jy2: I was recommending dropping 1 terminator squad for the 2 vindis. You should be able to scrape a few extra points elseware if you needed. Double vindis, 3 speeders, and 5 termi squads is no joke!
Oh, I see. Ok, I may give that a try next time.
Also, I think this list needs a "grot squad". I really don't like leaving behind a 235pt unit on an objective while the rest goes and fight. I may try this out next time (should I want to play deathwing instead):
Land Speeder Typhoon
Land Speeder Typhoon
Land Speeder Typhoon
Vindicator
Vindicator
2000
Tarrasq wrote:As for gaze of death, it doesn't look optional as it has the drawback of hitting friendlies. Also it goes off after all blows have been struck in the C'tan's combat with no other qualificatons (other than being in the assault phase). The strictest interpretation of that would require the C'tan to have been in combat at some point in phase but the ability does not require being in combat when it goes off.
So yeah automatic s3 power weapon hits that regenerate wounds if successful to all models in 5" sign me up.
Yeah, I'm starting to agree with this. Makes you reconsider multi-assaulting with the C'tan, though with the wraiths 3++, it probably wouldn't be so bad.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/05/12 19:28:59
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
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Now he can only stay to recharge or head toward the exit!
