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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






these zombies will be in plastic ?

lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






Yep they will be in top quality hard plastic.

For those that have not visited we have a FB page: https://www.facebook.com/minionminiatures

This has all the photos from the KS all in one place and a fair amount of other stuff.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/01 00:23:14


   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight





Central Cimmeria

And due to the sundry (mis)uses by others of the term "hard plastic," when Kaine Larson says that these will be in hard plastic he means these zombies will be in injection polystyrene just like GW miniatures (and tooled by Renedra!).

This will be a KS to pledge for!
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






The mournful wail on moonlit nights brings terror to the farmsteads of Morn. From beneath the world, driven mad from torture, starvation and pit fighting, the Underwolves charge through the trees toward their quarry. Riding these prized mounts are the Wolf Raiders, daring, courageous goblins that dare to leave the confines of the caverns they call home and brave enough to to break the will of an Underwolf.

Like a snarling tide they butcher all in their wake and leave with livestock, weapons and other useful items the Sunsiders keep. Sometimes a quarry is unlucky enough to not fall to the razor like swords of the Wolf Raiders. These unfortunates are taken below alive for a fate worse than death...


   
Made in gr
Regular Dakkanaut




As I've said before, artwork is good but what I'd like to see is more sculpts. Till now, we have reached 16 pages on this thread and apart all the chit-chat, you've only shown us 1 goblin and 1 zombie with 2 head and arm variations (and that only in the z-brush version) . Some people may find this sufficient but some others may not, especially from a completely unknown producer. Renedra is not going to be responsible for this project, YOU are going to be so I'm expecting to see a person really committed to doing this (and even that may not be good enough). If your bank account is running low, then find some more funds because although I appreciate the honesty, hearing there is no more money left does not put me in ease. You must be very eager to launch this, and I understand you, but it may all go down very bad and it's not good seeing how much it means to you. Something is telling me you have lots of things left to prepare however. having you saying you are launching start of September doesn't inspire much confidence (to me at least). With all honesty with the actual work put in so far this looks more like a draft to be planned for a 2015 project.
See Drakerys for a better and recent example, they had planned nicely for more than a year (I think I read somewhere 18 months) and sky-rocketed although completely unknown (like you). But if I make a comparison it's not really in your favor. Don't take this wrong I'm harsh with you because I want you to succeed, but I'm seeing holes all over. The only other thing you have in common with Drakerys is that they asked for around 35,000$ USD (which is around what you'll be needing I guess), which is anything but small. They had colored artwork, introduction videos, gameplay videos, display videos. Have you prepared those things? These don't cost that much money, it's about dedication and good planning from your part. Because I don't think you have (I hope you prove me wrong by uploading one just now, lol). They had a team of a lot of people (while you are one person only, free-lances obviously don't count). Have you considered teaming with someone else since you can't take the burden all by yourself? The French had uploaded their webpage before they launched their KS. Have you done that, and if not, will you have that ready before you launch? Drakerys had taken the effort to professionally paint their miniatures, even the ones they had not revealed, since they were SGs. My brother backed their project becuase these guys had done their work properly. Have you done the same? (food for the mind)
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






I appreciate your comments Siro but they seem a little too premature at the moment. The website is underway (although it will be basic to begin with), I have more digital sculpts coming, another green is on the way and I will have some 3ups done by the launch date.

I have a video being made this week for the KS page along with game play shots etc.

Your estimations on KS goal are way out I'm afraid and will be much more than this. I have no experience with manufacturing methods and/or location of the Drakerys miniatures so I would be unable to comment but the tooling will be much more expensive than that. This has always been a big ask and my team is small but dedicated.

I will work as hard as I can to make this happen and if not I will have to rethink my strategy and try again. I have already pumped lots of funds into this project and I still have some more to spend.

Again, thank you for your input Siro and if you have any other questions I would be happy to answer them.


   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

I agree that a lot of this is in very early stages, but I appreciate that even at that early stage they've talked and met with the manufacturer (a really good one at that). I love the goblin concepts so that's what has me interested.

The wolf raider is awesome, and I might even just be in for a bunch of those. I'm guessing that model would be resin- does that mean it might have an earlier delivery timeline? It might be early to consider, but if you're looking at long lead times for plastic tooling, whether or not you want to do wave shipping is a pretty important consideration.

Note that I'm not saying you should do it, just that you should decide whether or not you want to beforehand, so that you can be organized about what would likely be ready when.
   
Made in gr
Regular Dakkanaut




I appreciate the fast answer, maybe premature I think although I will reserve my concerns but keep watching this and am eager to see how it works out
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






We have had to abandon the idea of free shipping to the states and Europe (sorry). The costs made it impossible although my account worked as hard as possible to make it happen. Instead we have been able to discount shipping to the states and Europe. We will be looking at around £10 GBP to send which I hope you will consider to be reasonable. That will currently be around $16-17 or 12 EUROS.

The manufacture time for the resin and metal miniatures will be far shorter but that would lead to us having to split the shipping which again would be hugely negative in regard to any potential profits we could make. We are thinking of having a big open day in the UK with Underdeep games etc at a UK gaming centre/store where models could be picked up in person. We would also be happy for people to get their metals and resins sooner if they could pay for the postage but this is about as flexible as we could be. With Royal mail charging £34 for an average 2kg box to the US you can see how much cheaper we are.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On a side note...this is my favourite too...I love wolf riders. We wanted to make the wolf look unhealthy but mean and lean and perhaps even a bit rat like? I think he came out well. Once more Grigor (my artist) has surpased himself. I may have sunk too much money into the artwork but I find nothing more evocative than good images.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
WE are also now on PREFUNDIA. Please click on the link and follow us!

http://prefundia.com/projects/view/minion-miniatures-30mm-plastic-fantasy-miniatures-goblins-and-zombies/2241/

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/01 17:02:29


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






As a fan of all things ratty, I love the concept for your wolf-riding goblin. And may I say, that's a particularly good illustration of the idea: lots of nasty menace and absolutely zero "ruin my suspension of disbelief" comedy. In fantasy, everything is inherently ridiculous. Whether it seems so in the sculpt, text, or movie is all down to execution. The text rings appropriately creepy, too. The kidnapping element reminds me a bit of the dark side of faerie from "Don't be Afraid of the Dark." Just one niggle: If you ever publish that text, please change "The mournful wail on moonlit nights brings terror to the farmsteads of Morn." There are a few too many mournful mourners mourning in Morn this morning, if you get my drift.

I can't wait to see the renders for the goblins. If they're anything like these drawings, I'm sold on getting myself a skirmish force of them. I've already rationalized your Gobbos as appropriate for a race of low-tech Aliens on a backwater planet.

I don't know if you'll stay this particular course, but I also love the idea of "Underdeep" as a fantasy skirmish game that focuses particularly on evil underworld factions, as one of your early facebook posts described it. That would be much more focused and flavorful than a generic fantasy world of elves, orcs, humans, blah blah blah, and in my opinion, would make your game much more attractive to me than, since Sirio brought it up, Drakerys. For me, a game focused exclusively on underground, evil races would be like a Godzilla movie with all the boring, tedious, poorly acted "human drama" parts cut out and all the excellent monster battles kept in. In other words, pure gold that I'd jump my sci-fi fence for.

Although with a setting like Underdeep, you might want to tap a Cthulhu-style vein at some point. Tentacled, mutant, amorphous, corrupted, wisdom man wasn't meant to know, eldritch, whatever. Unspeakable beings from the places "where Dark things sleep," as Tolkien would have it (and even arch-classicist Tolkien had a "Watcher in the Water," and hinted at nameless things lurking down in the darkness of Moria). Fantasy miniature campaigns routinely forget just how popular Cthulhu is on Kickstarter, leaving it aside I guess because it's too associated with 1920's American horror settings (even though Lovecraft and Robert E. Howard were friends, and lovecraftian monsters often felt the bite of Conan's blade in his original stories, not to mention Clark Ashton Smith's excellent fantasy tales. Anyone who hasn't should read Smith's "The Seven Geases" for a particularly excellent example. Just don't mind the underwhelming ending, which is as poor as the one in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. As in that movie, it's the journey there that counts.)

That doesn't mean you need Shoggoths per se in your game.* Sorcerous serpentmen or Ghoul (non-undead, gnoll / bestial style) or fishmen cults or even (gasp) less conventional** demons could fill that void. Undead are great in a different way but they don't fit that particular bill, mostly because they tend to be tightly bound by ironclad, well-known superstitious conventions regarding their capabilities, behaviors, and weaknesses, and by extremely hierarchical organization (a dread master or two and his mindless slaves) rather than independent / alien thinkers with unknowable motivations. They are horrific, but known quantities.***

Regarding charging shipping to the US, I think it is certainly fair, and I believe you that it is a good deal. It is a price I'm willing to pay, and I've paid shipping from UK KS campaigns before. To be honest, though, I do think you will see reduced perception of value and reduced participation from US customers in general for doing this, and it may bump your KS campaign from contention for million dollar plus explosion status down to a more modest "well, we got the Goblins funded at least" category. The problem is that regardless of how good the value is otherwise, paying for shipping, particularly paying more than average shipping to get something from abroad, has a psychological aspect for American internet consumers now, one that I would lay largely at the feet of Amazon. It isn't fair, logical, sensible, or reasonable, but I actually think you would be better off raising your pledge or add-on prices and keeping the free shipping, just for the salesmanship aspect, particularly since you are running your project in pounds.

Again, as a US customer, I'm fine with paying shipping, and I don't believe I deserve special treatment relative to other buyers from other countries. But in terms of trying to put myself in your shoes and think strategically about the realities of the American market and how to make the most from it, I would try to make free shipping work if I aspired to running a mega-successful campaign.

If just getting the Goblins funded, with an outside chance on the Undead, is just fine for you, and perhaps much more advisable as a way to begin and build your business with a smaller initial market offering and less risk, then I say charge for shipping. I don't see why, particularly with your informed, friendly, timely, and highly responsive style, that you couldn't meet with at least as much success as BattleSystems recently did.

And make no mistake, keeping that rapport going with supporters and interested parties on forums, and most of all on the KS comments section when this launches, is absolutely critical to your success, no matter how little you've slept or how much micro-managing you need to do behind the scenes of "more important" aspects. Perhaps it shouldn't be, but KS is part theater and all salesmanship, and you need more or less constant interaction and openness, especially as a new company, to get the most from your campaign. See BattleSystems for how to do this well. If you find you can't keep up with all the commentary and respond to questions in a timely manner, hire someone to do it for you. So far, you're definitely on the right track.

*Mi-Go and Ithaqua / Wendigo types you do need, because market research conducted by my private team suggests that I love them and I said so.

** No devil tails, rigid Machiavellian hierarchy of hell, familiars, pointy beards, witch / warlock summoners, or pentagrams. All of which are fine, but like traditional undead, fall into the category of rule-bound Western folklore rather than suggesting the unknowable Beyond. Doesn't mean you can't do them in that style and meet success, not at all, they just wouldn't appeal as Lovecraftian.

*** "The undead are all the dread darkness my game needs, Arch-Asterisked Digressor! Screw Lovecraft, and screw you for telling me how to run my fantasy franchise, Vermonter! Speaking of stale conventions, Lovecraftian horror is the most overdone, predictable, rancid fare out there! What do you want me to do, churn out more August Derleth styled knock-off drivel?"
Ooh, Derleth was a low blow. Fair enough! I just like dark, unknowable, Lovecrafty things, no matter how commercially run into the ground they've been, and I had to make my pitch. And give me some credit, here; I didn't even mention D&D's mindflayers / illithid of Underdark. Except I just did . . . no, keep that knowable, non-tentacular evil fantasy archetype away from me . . . but Cthulhu sells . . . aaiieee!!

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/08/01 17:51:53


Dakkadakka: Bringing wargamers together, one smile at a time.™ 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






Vermonter...you are a post writing God...so entertaining. The Cthulhu vibe will be there. We will be doing a subterranean fish people/deep ones type race with all manner of nasty badies of the an octopoid bent. As I have said before we are angling for a fantasy RPG idea here and the rules will have a section on "binding" weird underground gribblies to do your bidding like (and I am trying not to cross boundaries here - UNDER Hulks, Bladed Horrors, Muttering mouth creatures etc)....sad thing is I made myself laugh writing that...nevermind...

This means that every force can have a mage of sorts controlling random Underdeep monsters. Although I have not focused on this during this KS I will certainly be adding these creatures to the game. The Goblin Shaman comes with a giant spider he has bound and can be used as such.

One last point the Zombies and Goblins will now be funded together meaning both boxed sets will be available at the same time.

   
Made in gr
Regular Dakkanaut





 Vermonter wrote:
I don't know if you'll stay this particular course, but I also love the idea of "Underdeep" as a fantasy skirmish game that focuses particularly on evil underworld factions, as one of your early facebook posts described it. That would be much more focused and flavorful than a generic fantasy world of elves, orcs, humans, blah blah blah, and in my opinion, would make your game much more attractive to me than, since Sirio brought it up, Drakerys. For me, a game focused exclusively on underground, evil races would be like a Godzilla movie with all the boring, tedious, poorly acted "human drama" parts cut out and all the excellent monster battles kept in. In other words, pure gold that I'd jump my sci-fi fence for.


This exactly is what makes me so interested. The setting really fits a skirmish game with small warbands fighting each other.I think good races could also appear at some point. The underground dwellers don't need to be all evil necessarily.

And I would really like to see and paint some nice drow models.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






A drow with drider plastic frame is a real possibility at some stage. I think Lizardkin would be next along with maybe Gnolls and Orcs... We have plans for Sunsiders, dwarven Treasure a Hunters, drow, fish men, dark dwarves, and also the larger races like trolls and Minotaurs in plastic.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Kaine,

Do you any any updates on the game rules? Will the rules be available during the KS?
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






We are still play testing but they will be available during KS as PDF download. All models are independent like GWs Lotr game. There is "fog of war" style activation where your opponent knows how many activations you have in a phase but you do not. The combat mechanic also allows you to exchange hits in combat for special attacks or abilities. So far we have had some very fun games. The factions also play very differently. The idea is that the living rulebook will be changed throughout the KS and fulfilment period. We want the game to be played as much as possible so when we print the rule book it will be as perfect as possible!

   
Made in us
Thermo-Optical Tuareg





California

The wolfraider isn't really doing much for me, I have to say. I think it has to do with the wolf's design. It doesn't really look much like a wolf. To me it looks more like a giant rat.

   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






The styling of the Underwolf was an amalgamation of a wolf and a rat. We wanted the creature to be different normal wolves, a canine creature that has been bred and rented in the darkness to become a whole new species. I appreciate it's not going to be to everyone's taste but I didn't want to stick them on a normal wolf as it would make sense in our game world.

   
Made in gb
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





UK

The wolf rider looks great, I've said it many times, but this aesthetic is wonderful!

 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






Thank you Paradigm. By the way we should have sculpts for the plastic goblin, Bugbear Ironshield and the Goblin Skulk sometime next week! For to look forward to.

Also the project is now on Prefundia with some (only some at this stage) of the KS graphics etc. If anyone is thinking of jumping on board Prefundia is great place to start. Plus it means you will get a warning when the project is live!.

http://prefundia.com/projects/view/minion-miniatures-30mm-plastic-fantasy-miniatures-goblins-and-zombies/2241/

   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

The art on that page looks good, I don't see any info on numbers in the boxes, prices, or expected lead time, though. All things I'm sure you're looking into, but remember on the last one that it's better to overestimate than underestimate by months / even years, as many campaigns have done . Hopefully, you can give Renedra an accurate number of sprues and mold split / layout work on their end, and they can give you an accurate estimate of how long it will take.

Before any of that happens, the sculpts need to be finished, of course... so that's another variable. Arena Rex has been held hostage by one sculptor taking forever (Mikh), so making sure you have contracts in place that you can take the work to another sculptor if one is not delivering in a timely manner would be wise.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/02 17:33:29


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






Sculptors are all in place, numbers are ready, Renedra are set. Manufacturer is happy with what we are doing and ready to go. Due to lead times manufacturing of the plastics cant start until about April next year so we are looking at a delivery time of September 2015. Renedra are happy enough with what they have seen to book us into their timetable already so I don't think there should be too many hold ups. The images on the Prefundia site at the moment are just an overview of the models that will form the core KS. Over the next week or so the pledge levels and stretchgoals will be added with associated costs. In order to attract more pledgers we have had to introduce the Zombie and Goblins at the same time so the intial KS funding goal is higher than expected but I hope the increased traffic will cover this. Most importantly the accountant is happy that the figures stack up!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just to let you know the sprues are formed from two half sprues. They will be similar to some of the Perry sprues in that they will have 6 bodies on them heads and weapon options. The Sprue will then be repeated with different weapon options. Once the command sprue is funded the boxed set should be 26 models for around the £20 mark at retail although in the KS you get the KS exclusive Goblin Skulk model as well which is looking awesome.

The boxed set will be 4 x 4 half sprues, each holding 6 figures with different head and weapon options including spearmen, bowmen and sword and shield. There will be roughly 30-40 heads per boxed set to give a nice variation and each body can be used for all weapon options. There will also be some additional gear like quivers, shoulder guards etc.

The command sprue will hold another two different bodies plus parts to make a Champion, Standard Bearer and musician. Obviously one of the boxed set miniatures will have to be used to fulfill the musician if needed. In the Zombie boxed set the Champion will be a heavily armoured version of a normal zombie and the standard will be some form of unholy icon. The Musician model will be a zombie with a rack on its back with a large bell on it.

The Goblins will be a Goblin champion, more heavily armoured than usual, a standard bearer and a musician in the form of a tribal style drummer, we may even have a drum bearing creature of sorts...we have not discussed that yet.

The pledge levels will allow the following:

£1 - Thanks
£10 Goblin Skulk and access to the addon store (lots of goodies to be had in here)
£24 - 24 plastic miniatures, plus the Goblin Skulk model.
£60 - EB Starter Set - 36 Goblins and 36 Zombies and Skulk. Qualify for free addons. (0.83 per model) - Limited to 600
£70 - Starter Set - 36 Goblins and 36 Zombies and Skulk. Qualify for free addons. (0.97 per model)
£90 - Warband - 108 plastic miniatures and Skulk. (0.83 per model)
£110 - Battleforce - 144 plastic models of your choice plus Skulk (0.76 per model)
£120 - Horde - 192 plastic models of your choice plus Skulk (0.62 per model) - Limited to 600
£200 - 3-UP Frenzy - 216 plastic models of your choice plus Skulk and three of our 3 UP models on display bases. - Limited to 200.
£200 - SWARM - 360 plastic models of your choice plus Skulk (0.55 per model), for those who want to build a really big army! - Limited to 200

There are some additional pledges available that you will see when the KS starts
All models will be supplied with either 30mm round lipped bases or 25mm square bases.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/02 18:38:21


   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

Well, if those end up being the pledge levels I'd likely be looking for someone on here to split a Swarm pledge with. Very very attractive prices.

Would you consider supplying the models with 20mm square bases? I believe this is standard in other games. At the least the goblins would look better on 20mm square ones, and be more usable, although I have tons of cheap Proxie Models brand bases so it's not a huge issue for me personally.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/02 21:17:12


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






Sorry that was a typo ... It should 20mm.

   
Made in gb
Pious Warrior Priest




UK

Very nice set of pledge levels there.

Can see the 200 SWARM pledges going very quickly, it is not often that a KS offers that much value right off the bat.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






Would you recommend increasing the EB's on it?

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Virginia, USA

To be honest, I dislike number limited EB pledges. If you come into the kickstarter late (sometimes even hours late) it really feels like a let down. I don't mind time cutoff EB's nearly as much because at least there everyone who backed in the first week or so has the option.

I don't mind pledges that are limited because of product (like your 3UP's for instance).
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






I've not really thought about that. Perhaps I could modify it to time based? I'll have a think about it.

Just a sneak peak of KS exclusive model. The sculpt has just been finished and I have a quick I phone pic of it. There will be a better one as soon as I receive the model but I think you will agree that Robby Crawforth has done an awesome job staying original to the concept art!



This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/08/03 00:00:05


   
Made in gb
Pious Warrior Priest




UK

Kaine Larson wrote:
Would you recommend increasing the EB's on it?


With Swarm, it depends on how much takeup there is on the £200 3-up pledge level.

Can see a lot more people wanting another 150 models rather than three 3-ups, so you may find as the campaign progresses that more people want Swarm and fewer want the 3-ups.

For reference, Mantic never sold out of their "collectors range" 3-up models, despite only 75 of each being produced, they were on the webstore for years.

That said, you can change quantities after the KS launches so there is no harm in waiting for a pledge level to fill up before making any decisions on exactly how limited it is... if all the swarm levels get taken, that's £40k on its own, and from there you'll be in a good position to calculate whether you want to unlock more or reduce the 3-up pledge in favour of more swarm.

Think the pledges look pretty solid personally, you have three very distinct levels of investment at roughly $100, $200 and $300 so its easy to get into and easy to raise a pledge from there.

I'm starting to really like the sound of the rules, so I think I'll end up going for goblins and zombies.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/08/03 01:26:43


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

I hope the goblin and that big head are separate pieces! If so, good, and looking forward to a better picture.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






I wasn't aware you cod change the EB levels once the KS had started, that's good news. I think perhaps putting swarm up to 300 and dropping the 3ups down to 100 would work better.

The head on the skulk is a removable piece.

   
 
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