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Confirmed here: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-20gh91Ba8J4/T-nRIJxrvWI/AAAAAAAAGRo/wTQOz4g-Kyk/s1600/werwer.jpg

I think this is a terrible move for the game. Yes, it will nerf GK, but it will create another major problem; Terminators.
Armies like Daemons, DE, Eldar, & Necrons rely on power weapons in assault. Now they will just bounce of Terminators.

I also think this fails from a fluff perspectice. I have read most of the Black Library books, and Power Weapons pierce right thru
Terminator armor.

My sense is, this is GW's way of dealing with the GK problem, but it is only a band aid solution. It is going to create bigger issues.

   
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I personally dont have much of a problem with it, I always have thought my terminators were too vulnerable to the many power weapons in the game. If power weapons were harder to come by that'd be another thing but they are common.

Another reason is that i normally deal with terminators or things with 2+ saves with volume of attacks more so than with bringing my power weapons to bear. Since they are still vulnerable to just getting mobbed with attacks or shots and getting saves forced it's not so bad.

Heavily armored units can now feel like they are heavily armored, unless taking a lascannon to the face or being mobbed by numbers.

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http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/456706.page

Already talked about in the main 6th Ed thread!


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Gah why couldn't the guy pan down a few inches so we can see what happened to power klaws? I want to know if they've changed any!

OT: This makes things like blob guard a lot less deadly to things like termies now. They can still kill them, but it will be only through volume of attacks, not by passing armor. Looks like guard platoons will have to focus solely (or at least mostly) on shooting from now on...

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If you read the fluff, power weapons can punch through a ship's hull with ease.

Personally, I think that it isn't the best solution, but it's good to make 2+ mean something again.



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Killian wrote:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/456706.page

Already talked about in the main 6th Ed thread!


It is "lost in the shuffle" in that thread. This aspect is so important, I believe it deserves it's own discussion.
The devil's in the details, and this is a big one.
   
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Darklight wrote:
Killian wrote:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/456706.page

Already talked about in the main 6th Ed thread!


It is "lost in the shuffle" in that thread. This aspect is so important, I believe it deserves it's own discussion.
The devil's in the details, and this is a big one.


Everyone already knows this however.
   
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The devil is in the news, which are in the main thread. You know the thread that is titled "6th Edition rumor and news - Page 1 updated daily", which is also the same one that has the very news you posted on page 1 (which by the way is updated daily).

So yes, please talk about it in that thread. Or make another thread in the 40K subforums. There are lots of news about lots of games, and we really don't need to clutter page 1 with multiple news & rumor threads about 6th when there is already a master thread talking about all the rumors.

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d-usa wrote:The devil is in the news, which are in the main thread. You know the thread that is titled "6th Edition rumor and news - Page 1 updated daily", which is also the same one that has the very news you posted on page 1 (which by the way is updated daily).

So yes, please talk about it in that thread. Or make another thread in the 40K subforums. There are lots of news about lots of games, and we really don't need to clutter page 1 with multiple news & rumor threads about 6th when there is already a master thread talking about all the rumors.

Disagree with your assement on this. It is an important aspect that needs it's own discussion. And, BTW, it is going to be reality now, not a rumor.
   
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I'm torn. On the one hand my GK Paladins and Terminators will lose some offensive power. On the other hand they gain some defensive power.

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generic power weapons in the rulebook are ap 3 and give 5+ parry save.

Wait until the codex faqs come out, its very possible some of the more outlandish things which are simply powerweapons now may be listed as ap2 or ap 1 in the codex faqs/erratas for 6th.
   
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ar. really?

previously my 5 men death company can chop down a unit of termi if I give them all power weapon.

now it have to do the ork thing, multiple unit with no power weapon / power fist, charge into the termi; just have to statistically break the ap2.

more model I think.
   
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MrMoustaffa wrote:Gah why couldn't the guy pan down a few inches so we can see what happened to power klaws? I want to know if they've changed any!

I believe they are essentially the same as power fist by large so will be AP2

I really need to stay away from the 40K forums. 
   
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Did I miss something? The page you quoted was for force weapons, not power weapons.

Are power weapons getting renamed to force weapons? If they're not, then what you're talking about only affects GK, and just a couple other models.


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Ailaros wrote:Did I miss something? The page you quoted was for force weapons, not power weapons.

Are power weapons getting renamed to force weapons? If they're not, then what you're talking about only affects GK, and just a couple other models.


Power Weapons will also be AP3. It is confirmed by multiple sources.
   
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While GK may mourn their lack of punch, the ability for Paladins to soak up damage now is insane, especially when compared to everybody else in the game.

I still see this as GK +1, everybody else, just a change (though, those Black Reach terminators are suddenly looking much better to buyers on ebay).

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Lobukia wrote:While GK may mourn their lack of punch, the ability for Paladins to soak up damage now is insane, especially when compared to everybody else in the game.

I still see this as GK +1, everybody else, just a change


Yeah, especially since you can swap to those nice double strength AP2 hammers for free.

However, the only image we have explicitly mentions that it refers to force weapons that have no further rules. GK Nemesis force weapons all come with extra rules. So, does the chart apply? Do the NFW rules also apply? If the chart doesn't apply, what AP value will NFW use?

I mean, it'd be a bit rude simply using that chart for NFW. Especially because it states that halberds count as axes. Halberds giving +2I, +1S, and Ap2? Yes please!

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It seems meganobs may be a bit more useful.

I wonder if Slow and Purposeful is still around.

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Axes always got at I1 though, so that would make halberds I3.

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Pretty sure halbreds are just swords with a bonus to init

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I mean, it'd be a bit rude simply using that chart for NFW. Especially because it states that halberds count as axes. Halberds giving +2I, +1S, and Ap2? Yes please!


Which would technically mean you are hitting at I3 as well if that were true, though technically all of their weapons are unique.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/27 07:30:33


 
   
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ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I mean, it'd be a bit rude simply using that chart for NFW. Especially because it states that halberds count as axes. Halberds giving +2I, +1S, and Ap2? Yes please!


Which would technically mean you are hitting at I3 as well if that were true, though technically all of their weapons are unique.


Worth it.

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Darklight wrote:I also think this fails from a fluff perspectice. I have read most of the Black Library books, and Power Weapons pierce right thru
Terminator armor.

Check out Dark Heresy/Deathwatch.

Power weapons only have a armor pen of 6 in that game, and TDA has 14 armor points.

so regular power weapons do not go through TDA at all times.

Basically you roll damage, Usually D10+Str bonus (Most marines have a str bonus of 10 in their armor) and the armor only stops points = to its armor rating minus the pen rating of the weapon. (So TDS stops 8 points of that damage from the power sword. 14 armor points minus 6 pen rating = 8 damage stopped per attack).

So it seems to fit with some of the fluff anyway. Not that the fluff is consistent between anything in 40K really...

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Lobukia wrote:While GK may mourn their lack of punch, the ability for Paladins to soak up damage now is insane, especially when compared to everybody else in the game.

I still see this as GK +1, everybody else, just a change (though, those Black Reach terminators are suddenly looking much better to buyers on ebay).


Actually, this won't be the case at all. Wound allocation has changed. It is now closest to furthest, with wargear being irrelevant. Draigo Wing is no longer viable.
   
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Darklight wrote:
Lobukia wrote:While GK may mourn their lack of punch, the ability for Paladins to soak up damage now is insane, especially when compared to everybody else in the game.

I still see this as GK +1, everybody else, just a change (though, those Black Reach terminators are suddenly looking much better to buyers on ebay).


Actually, this won't be the case at all. Wound allocation has changed. It is now closest to furthest, with wargear being irrelevant. Draigo Wing is no longer viable.

Correction.
Ultra cheesy draigo wing is no longer viable.
Not all GK players use cheese, and not everyone who uses paladins abused the rules. Sick of people saying this.

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Joey wrote:
Darklight wrote:
Lobukia wrote:While GK may mourn their lack of punch, the ability for Paladins to soak up damage now is insane, especially when compared to everybody else in the game.

I still see this as GK +1, everybody else, just a change (though, those Black Reach terminators are suddenly looking much better to buyers on ebay).


Actually, this won't be the case at all. Wound allocation has changed. It is now closest to furthest, with wargear being irrelevant. Draigo Wing is no longer viable.

Correction.
Ultra cheesy draigo wing is no longer viable.
Not all GK players use cheese, and not everyone who uses paladins abused the rules. Sick of people saying this.


QFT I've seen non-cheesy Draigowing. However Deathwing player would like to thank everyone for playing we are glad you came.

To the OP check the wording on those Necron Weapons they say something peculiar. They ignore all armor saves.

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Those are force weapons, though. Is this still the case for power weapons? Every single other "I have the rulebook and here are some answers" thread has power weapons at AP2.

It's a shame Dante can't be taken as an ally, him and a unit of Sanguinary Guard would be pretty badass as an allied detachment.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/06/27 12:57:24


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Omegus wrote:Those are force weapons, though. Is this still the case for power weapons? Every single other "I have the rulebook and here are some answers" thread has power weapons at AP2.

It's a shame Dante can't be taken as an ally, him and a unit of Sanguinary Guard would be pretty badass as an allied detachment.


Nope, power weapons are definetely AP3 - period. Fists, hammers, and power axes are AP2, but that's it.

I can tell you right now, Grey Knights will no longer pwn everything in assault. With these knew rules, most vanilla marine lists with heavy TH\SS termies will destroy most GK lists in assault. The Storm Shields (which GK can't get), will make
all the difference in the world. Orks will also be able to tangle with Grey Knights in assault now with Meganobs. Meganobs will eat Paladins. I see the tier #1 assault army in 6th being Death Wing. I honestly can't think of another army that will
be able to deal with it in assault. Other than a massive horde Ork or Tyranid build, that tries to do so thru attrition.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/27 14:15:01


 
   
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TH&SS terminators have always been brutally hard to deal with, even for GK. You yourself point to the stormshields as being the deciding factor, rather than terminator armor now being not just crappy artificer armor. You pew pew them to death as always. Roll enough wounds and they'll roll those 1s.

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Omegus wrote:TH&SS terminators have always been brutally hard to deal with, even for GK. You yourself point to the stormshields as being the deciding factor, rather than terminator armor now being not just crappy artificer armor. You pew pew them to death as always. Roll enough wounds and they'll roll those 1s.


Ahh the sad fact for me of being a super elite army. All this changes is that people will use powerfists more than ever they are now very useful and most assault units that have a 2+ are not superfast initiative anyway so in the words of Nero "Fire Everything!"

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