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2012/06/27 03:41:18
Subject: 6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Confirmed here: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-20gh91Ba8J4/T-nRIJxrvWI/AAAAAAAAGRo/wTQOz4g-Kyk/s1600/werwer.jpg
I think this is a terrible move for the game. Yes, it will nerf GK, but it will create another major problem; Terminators.
Armies like Daemons, DE, Eldar, & Necrons rely on power weapons in assault. Now they will just bounce of Terminators.
I also think this fails from a fluff perspectice. I have read most of the Black Library books, and Power Weapons pierce right thru
Terminator armor.
My sense is, this is GW's way of dealing with the GK problem, but it is only a band aid solution. It is going to create bigger issues.
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2012/06/27 03:45:50
Subject: Re:6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I personally dont have much of a problem with it, I always have thought my terminators were too vulnerable to the many power weapons in the game. If power weapons were harder to come by that'd be another thing but they are common.
Another reason is that i normally deal with terminators or things with 2+ saves with volume of attacks more so than with bringing my power weapons to bear. Since they are still vulnerable to just getting mobbed with attacks or shots and getting saves forced it's not so bad.
Heavily armored units can now feel like they are heavily armored, unless taking a lascannon to the face or being mobbed by numbers.
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Death comes for you.
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2012/06/27 03:47:39
Subject: 6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Death-Dealing Ultramarine Devastator
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4,000 pts of 6th Company Ultramarines
2,500 pts of Necrons |
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2012/06/27 03:48:43
Subject: 6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Heroic Senior Officer
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Gah why couldn't the guy pan down a few inches so we can see what happened to power klaws? I want to know if they've changed any!
OT: This makes things like blob guard a lot less deadly to things like termies now. They can still kill them, but it will be only through volume of attacks, not by passing armor. Looks like guard platoons will have to focus solely (or at least mostly) on shooting from now on...
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'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell |
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2012/06/27 03:50:51
Subject: 6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Using Object Source Lighting
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If you read the fluff, power weapons can punch through a ship's hull with ease.
Personally, I think that it isn't the best solution, but it's good to make 2+ mean something again.
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2012/06/27 03:51:03
Subject: 6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Killian wrote:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/456706.page
Already talked about in the main 6th Ed thread!
It is "lost in the shuffle" in that thread. This aspect is so important, I believe it deserves it's own discussion.
The devil's in the details, and this is a big one.
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2012/06/27 03:55:21
Subject: 6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets
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Darklight wrote:Killian wrote:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/456706.page
Already talked about in the main 6th Ed thread!
It is "lost in the shuffle" in that thread. This aspect is so important, I believe it deserves it's own discussion.
The devil's in the details, and this is a big one.
Everyone already knows this however.
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2012/06/27 03:55:29
Subject: 6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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[DCM]
Secret Squirrel
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The devil is in the news, which are in the main thread. You know the thread that is titled "6th Edition rumor and news - Page 1 updated daily", which is also the same one that has the very news you posted on page 1 (which by the way is updated daily).
So yes, please talk about it in that thread. Or make another thread in the 40K subforums. There are lots of news about lots of games, and we really don't need to clutter page 1 with multiple news & rumor threads about 6th when there is already a master thread talking about all the rumors.
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2012/06/27 04:06:38
Subject: 6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Regular Dakkanaut
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d-usa wrote:The devil is in the news, which are in the main thread. You know the thread that is titled "6th Edition rumor and news - Page 1 updated daily", which is also the same one that has the very news you posted on page 1 (which by the way is updated daily).
So yes, please talk about it in that thread. Or make another thread in the 40K subforums. There are lots of news about lots of games, and we really don't need to clutter page 1 with multiple news & rumor threads about 6th when there is already a master thread talking about all the rumors.
Disagree with your assement on this. It is an important aspect that needs it's own discussion. And, BTW, it is going to be reality now, not a rumor.
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2012/06/27 04:44:57
Subject: 6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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I'm torn. On the one hand my GK Paladins and Terminators will lose some offensive power. On the other hand they gain some defensive power.
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"Did you ever notice how in the Bible, when ever God needed to punish someone, or make an example, or whenever God needed a killing, he sent an angel? Did you ever wonder what a creature like that must be like? A whole existence spent praising your God, but always with one wing dipped in blood. Would you ever really want to see an angel?" |
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2012/06/27 04:55:11
Subject: 6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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generic power weapons in the rulebook are ap 3 and give 5+ parry save.
Wait until the codex faqs come out, its very possible some of the more outlandish things which are simply powerweapons now may be listed as ap2 or ap 1 in the codex faqs/erratas for 6th.
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2012/06/27 06:15:06
Subject: Re:6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Fresh-Faced New User
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ar. really?
previously my 5 men death company can chop down a unit of termi if I give them all power weapon.
now it have to do the ork thing, multiple unit with no power weapon / power fist, charge into the termi; just have to statistically break the ap2.
more model I think.
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2012/06/27 06:32:55
Subject: 6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Wicked Warp Spider
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MrMoustaffa wrote:Gah why couldn't the guy pan down a few inches so we can see what happened to power klaws? I want to know if they've changed any!
I believe they are essentially the same as power fist by large so will be AP2
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I really need to stay away from the 40K forums. |
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2012/06/27 06:38:08
Subject: 6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Did I miss something? The page you quoted was for force weapons, not power weapons.
Are power weapons getting renamed to force weapons? If they're not, then what you're talking about only affects GK, and just a couple other models.
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2012/06/27 06:42:39
Subject: 6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Ailaros wrote:Did I miss something? The page you quoted was for force weapons, not power weapons.
Are power weapons getting renamed to force weapons? If they're not, then what you're talking about only affects GK, and just a couple other models.
Power Weapons will also be AP3. It is confirmed by multiple sources.
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2012/06/27 06:47:30
Subject: 6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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While GK may mourn their lack of punch, the ability for Paladins to soak up damage now is insane, especially when compared to everybody else in the game.
I still see this as GK +1, everybody else, just a change (though, those Black Reach terminators are suddenly looking much better to buyers on ebay).
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DO:70S++G++M+B++I+Pw40k93/f#++D++++A++++/eWD-R++++T(D)DM+
Note: Records since 2010, lists kept current (W-D-L) Blue DP Crusade 126-11-6 Biel-Tan Aspect Waves 2-0-2 Looted Green Horde smash your face in 32-7-8 Broadside/Shield Drone/Kroot blitz goodness 23-3-4 Grey Hunters galore 17-5-5 Khan Bikes Win 63-1-1 Tanith with Pardus Armor 11-0-0 Crimson Tide 59-4-0 Green/Raven/Deathwing 18-0-0 Jumping GK force with Inq. 4-0-0 BTemplars w LRs 7-1-2 IH Legion with Automata 8-0-0 RG Legion w Adepticon medal 6-0-0 Primaris and Little Buddies 7-0-0
QM Templates here, HH army builder app for both v1 and v2
One Page 40k Ruleset for Game Beginners |
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2012/06/27 07:05:07
Subject: 6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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Lobukia wrote:While GK may mourn their lack of punch, the ability for Paladins to soak up damage now is insane, especially when compared to everybody else in the game.
I still see this as GK +1, everybody else, just a change
Yeah, especially since you can swap to those nice double strength AP2 hammers for free.
However, the only image we have explicitly mentions that it refers to force weapons that have no further rules. GK Nemesis force weapons all come with extra rules. So, does the chart apply? Do the NFW rules also apply? If the chart doesn't apply, what AP value will NFW use?
I mean, it'd be a bit rude simply using that chart for NFW. Especially because it states that halberds count as axes. Halberds giving +2I, +1S, and Ap2? Yes please!
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"Did you ever notice how in the Bible, when ever God needed to punish someone, or make an example, or whenever God needed a killing, he sent an angel? Did you ever wonder what a creature like that must be like? A whole existence spent praising your God, but always with one wing dipped in blood. Would you ever really want to see an angel?" |
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2012/06/27 07:10:01
Subject: Re:6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Mutating Changebringer
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It seems meganobs may be a bit more useful.
I wonder if Slow and Purposeful is still around.
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2012/06/27 07:13:44
Subject: 6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk
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Axes always got at I1 though, so that would make halberds I3.
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7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. |
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2012/06/27 07:19:16
Subject: 6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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Pretty sure halbreds are just swords with a bonus to init
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DO:70S++G++M+B++I+Pw40k93/f#++D++++A++++/eWD-R++++T(D)DM+
Note: Records since 2010, lists kept current (W-D-L) Blue DP Crusade 126-11-6 Biel-Tan Aspect Waves 2-0-2 Looted Green Horde smash your face in 32-7-8 Broadside/Shield Drone/Kroot blitz goodness 23-3-4 Grey Hunters galore 17-5-5 Khan Bikes Win 63-1-1 Tanith with Pardus Armor 11-0-0 Crimson Tide 59-4-0 Green/Raven/Deathwing 18-0-0 Jumping GK force with Inq. 4-0-0 BTemplars w LRs 7-1-2 IH Legion with Automata 8-0-0 RG Legion w Adepticon medal 6-0-0 Primaris and Little Buddies 7-0-0
QM Templates here, HH army builder app for both v1 and v2
One Page 40k Ruleset for Game Beginners |
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2012/06/27 07:30:08
Subject: Re:6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets
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I mean, it'd be a bit rude simply using that chart for NFW. Especially because it states that halberds count as axes. Halberds giving +2I, +1S, and Ap2? Yes please!
Which would technically mean you are hitting at I3 as well if that were true, though technically all of their weapons are unique.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/27 07:30:33
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2012/06/27 07:31:28
Subject: Re:6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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ZebioLizard2 wrote:I mean, it'd be a bit rude simply using that chart for NFW. Especially because it states that halberds count as axes. Halberds giving +2I, +1S, and Ap2? Yes please!
Which would technically mean you are hitting at I3 as well if that were true, though technically all of their weapons are unique.
Worth it.
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"Did you ever notice how in the Bible, when ever God needed to punish someone, or make an example, or whenever God needed a killing, he sent an angel? Did you ever wonder what a creature like that must be like? A whole existence spent praising your God, but always with one wing dipped in blood. Would you ever really want to see an angel?" |
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2012/06/27 08:05:11
Subject: 6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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Darklight wrote:I also think this fails from a fluff perspectice. I have read most of the Black Library books, and Power Weapons pierce right thru
Terminator armor.
Check out Dark Heresy/Deathwatch.
Power weapons only have a armor pen of 6 in that game, and TDA has 14 armor points.
so regular power weapons do not go through TDA at all times.
Basically you roll damage, Usually D10+ Str bonus (Most marines have a str bonus of 10 in their armor) and the armor only stops points = to its armor rating minus the pen rating of the weapon. (So TDS stops 8 points of that damage from the power sword. 14 armor points minus 6 pen rating = 8 damage stopped per attack).
So it seems to fit with some of the fluff anyway. Not that the fluff is consistent between anything in 40K really...
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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2012/06/27 08:25:26
Subject: 6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Lobukia wrote:While GK may mourn their lack of punch, the ability for Paladins to soak up damage now is insane, especially when compared to everybody else in the game.
I still see this as GK +1, everybody else, just a change (though, those Black Reach terminators are suddenly looking much better to buyers on ebay).
Actually, this won't be the case at all. Wound allocation has changed. It is now closest to furthest, with wargear being irrelevant. Draigo Wing is no longer viable.
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2012/06/27 10:20:18
Subject: 6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Servoarm Flailing Magos
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Darklight wrote:Lobukia wrote:While GK may mourn their lack of punch, the ability for Paladins to soak up damage now is insane, especially when compared to everybody else in the game.
I still see this as GK +1, everybody else, just a change (though, those Black Reach terminators are suddenly looking much better to buyers on ebay).
Actually, this won't be the case at all. Wound allocation has changed. It is now closest to furthest, with wargear being irrelevant. Draigo Wing is no longer viable.
Correction.
Ultra cheesy draigo wing is no longer viable.
Not all GK players use cheese, and not everyone who uses paladins abused the rules. Sick of people saying this.
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Ever thought 40k would be a lot better with bears?
Codex: Bears.
NOW WITH MR BIGGLES AND HIS AMAZING FLYING CONTRAPTION |
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2012/06/27 12:28:52
Subject: 6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Fireknife Shas'el
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Joey wrote:Darklight wrote:Lobukia wrote:While GK may mourn their lack of punch, the ability for Paladins to soak up damage now is insane, especially when compared to everybody else in the game.
I still see this as GK +1, everybody else, just a change (though, those Black Reach terminators are suddenly looking much better to buyers on ebay).
Actually, this won't be the case at all. Wound allocation has changed. It is now closest to furthest, with wargear being irrelevant. Draigo Wing is no longer viable.
Correction.
Ultra cheesy draigo wing is no longer viable.
Not all GK players use cheese, and not everyone who uses paladins abused the rules. Sick of people saying this.
QFT I've seen non-cheesy Draigowing. However Deathwing player would like to thank everyone for playing we are glad you came.
To the OP check the wording on those Necron Weapons they say something peculiar. They ignore all armor saves.
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8000 Dark Angels (No primaris)
10000 Lizardmen (Fantasy I miss you)
3000 High Elves
4000 Kel'shan Ta'u
"He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which." -Douglas Adams |
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2012/06/27 12:55:46
Subject: 6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
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Those are force weapons, though. Is this still the case for power weapons? Every single other "I have the rulebook and here are some answers" thread has power weapons at AP2.
It's a shame Dante can't be taken as an ally, him and a unit of Sanguinary Guard would be pretty badass as an allied detachment.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/06/27 12:57:24
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2012/06/27 14:14:21
Subject: 6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Omegus wrote:Those are force weapons, though. Is this still the case for power weapons? Every single other "I have the rulebook and here are some answers" thread has power weapons at AP2.
It's a shame Dante can't be taken as an ally, him and a unit of Sanguinary Guard would be pretty badass as an allied detachment.
Nope, power weapons are definetely AP3 - period. Fists, hammers, and power axes are AP2, but that's it.
I can tell you right now, Grey Knights will no longer pwn everything in assault. With these knew rules, most vanilla marine lists with heavy TH\ SS termies will destroy most GK lists in assault. The Storm Shields (which GK can't get), will make
all the difference in the world. Orks will also be able to tangle with Grey Knights in assault now with Meganobs. Meganobs will eat Paladins. I see the tier #1 assault army in 6th being Death Wing. I honestly can't think of another army that will
be able to deal with it in assault. Other than a massive horde Ork or Tyranid build, that tries to do so thru attrition.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/27 14:15:01
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2012/06/27 14:29:52
Subject: 6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
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TH&SS terminators have always been brutally hard to deal with, even for GK. You yourself point to the stormshields as being the deciding factor, rather than terminator armor now being not just crappy artificer armor. You pew pew them to death as always. Roll enough wounds and they'll roll those 1s.
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2012/06/27 14:38:21
Subject: 6th Edition - Power Weapons Will Be AP3
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Fireknife Shas'el
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Omegus wrote:TH&SS terminators have always been brutally hard to deal with, even for GK. You yourself point to the stormshields as being the deciding factor, rather than terminator armor now being not just crappy artificer armor. You pew pew them to death as always. Roll enough wounds and they'll roll those 1s.
Ahh the sad fact for me of being a super elite army. All this changes is that people will use powerfists more than ever they are now very useful and most assault units that have a 2+ are not superfast initiative anyway so in the words of Nero "Fire Everything!"
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8000 Dark Angels (No primaris)
10000 Lizardmen (Fantasy I miss you)
3000 High Elves
4000 Kel'shan Ta'u
"He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which." -Douglas Adams |
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