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So, the Codex errata documents say to replace all mentions of "power sword" with "power weapon". And the Rulebook entry on power weapons (pg. 61) says to figure out the profile of a power weapon based on its appearance. So, does this mean I could give, say, an Assault Marine sergeant or Wych Hekatrix a power axe, thus being able to punch through terminator armor at AP2, albeit on Initiative 1?

If he's modelled with an axe then yes.

Wow so a wych hexatrix can be much better

Well then. That's certainly a boon. Depending on how popular Terminators or other Two-plussers will become, having a Hekatrix run around with a S4 AP2 power-axe might not be a bad idea. The various kinds of basic power weapon appear to be balanced against each other, none of them is clearly more powerful than the others, and each has a particular niche, especially for armies that lack access to powerfists.
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As an aside, it appears that having defensive grenades gives you a cover save against Overwatch fire as long as your charge distance is 8" or less. Considering the joke that is a wych armor save, they might well benefit from the 10 point upgrade (especially if Raider-mounted since they can't raise durability by inflating the squad size beyond 10 in that case).

Nitros14 wrote:If he's modelled with an axe then yes.

Technically yes, but a DE Axe looks deceptively like a human sword.
The difference is in the swinging of it. :p

If it stands, Banshees just became the ultimate glass hammer of 6th. their codex entry does say power weapon, so power axe + banshee mask is going to be nasty that first round and it sounds like assaulting from a WS is now viable. I could see a couple of power swords in use against non DW armies though. I have a hard time seeing GW letting them keep it though.

Whatever the model has, its profile changes.

wolf13 wrote:If it stands, Banshees just became the ultimate glass hammer of 6th. their codex entry does say power weapon, so power axe + banshee mask is going to be nasty that first round and it sounds like assaulting from a WS is now viable. I could see a couple of power swords in use against non DW armies though. I have a hard time seeing GW letting them keep it though.

The problem with that statement is if you use said power axe, the unwieldy rule will override the banshee mask. Just like if the banshee had a power fist. You may strike at I10 from the mask, but because your attacks are made with an unwieldy weapon you instead strike at I1.

He's making the assumption that the banshee masks will trump the unweildy I1 because that's how it was ruled for whip coils and lash whips. I'm not sure that's a safe assumption anymore. New edition, whole new ball game.

The problem though, you have a piece of wargear that says strike at I10 and a piece of wargear that says that it strikes at I1. If he chooses to strike with the pistol (page 51 tells us we can chose which weapon to attack with) he strikes at I10, however choosing the axe would be I1. The reason I came to that conclusion is this, at Initiative step 10 the model may attack with a close combat weapon. However the unwieldy rule prevents striking at initiative step 10, telling us it makes attacks at step 1 instead unless the unit is a monstrous creature or walker. Since the banshee is neither, the unwieldy rule (if you chose to strike with that weapon) makes it step one.

Nope, both pieces of wargear act together, meaning you roll off to see which one takes precedence that round.

Arschbombe wrote:He's making the assumption that the banshee masks will trump the unweildy I1 because that's how it was ruled for whip coils and lash whips. I'm not sure that's a safe assumption anymore. New edition, whole new ball game.

Whip coils now over rule any modifiers, so being in base contact with a wriath you will always strike at I1.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Nope, both pieces of wargear act together, meaning you roll off to see which one takes precedence that round.

I disagree, the unwieldy USR doesn't change the models Initiative, it simply causes their attacks to be resolved at initiative step 1, regardless of what their actual initiative is.

"A model attacking with this weapon does so at initiative step 1"

The wording is such that it will override any and all modifications of a models initiative.

Yep your right, banshee mask makes them initiative 10 not striking at initiative 10

It's like useing a power fist

So what the heck happens with a burna boy power weapon when they decide to activate them, especially since all it is is a highly concentrated sheet of flame?

Arschbombe wrote:He's making the assumption that the banshee masks will trump the unweildy I1 because that's how it was ruled for whip coils and lash whips. I'm not sure that's a safe assumption anymore. New edition, whole new ball game.

Since this is Fantasy Hammer just treat them like High Elves. They have a rule that says "always strikes first" that cancels weapons with "always strikes last". Surely we can take Fantasy rulings and apply them to 40K now

So imperial guard sergeants can take power axes as long as the are represented on the model?

FifteenHours wrote:So imperial guard sergeants can take power axes as long as the are represented on the model?

I don't have the IG codex, but it pretty much depends on the wording of the upgrade.

If the entry says "may take power sword for x points" then they have to take a power sword (or whatever else is actually stated).

If the entry says "may take power weapon for x points" then it seems that you can take whatever you want.

Didn't it say somewhere that a codex replaces all instances of "power whatever specific one it is" for simply "power weapon" and let the owner model it to be whatever it wants?

Dont see why not. They may be shot by any nearby commissar though, axes are definately a bit heretical looking compared to the standard issue power sword.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/303543.page

Seems GW even made Commissar models with power axes.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Nope, both pieces of wargear act together, meaning you roll off to see which one takes precedence that round.

This is correct, It's on page 2 of the BGB.

Coyote81 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Nope, both pieces of wargear act together, meaning you roll off to see which one takes precedence that round.

This is correct, It's on page 2 of the BGB.

Except, as I said before, Unwieldy isn't an initiative modifier, and thus, that part of the rules has no bearing on it.

Man, this opens up a whole can of worms re: modeling for advantage.

But hey, if you want to give every single death company guy you have an axe, you might as well be rewarded for the effort.

The Lost Autarch wrote:Man, this opens up a whole can of worms re: modeling for advantage.

But hey, if you want to give every single death company guy you have an axe, you might as well be rewarded for the effort.

In theory these power weapons are balanced in such a way that they all have the same value, it's not a universal truth, for example an Initiative 2 ork will happily take a Power Axe, whereas to give one to a Dark Eldar squad leader is giving up a major strength of the army.

Basically, yes you can model to get the weapon type you want, but it's no different to if your codex said you could take any of the 4 weapons for the same point cost.

Hmmm, Necron Lychguard Hyper (phase?) swords look Axe-ish.

Drunkspleen wrote:

In theory these power weapons are balanced in such a way that they all have the same value, it's not a universal truth, for example an Initiative 2 ork will happily take a Power Axe, whereas to give one to a Dark Eldar squad leader is giving up a major strength of the army.

Basically, yes you can model to get the weapon type you want, but it's no different to if your codex said you could take any of the 4 weapons for the same point cost.

Yeah, I totally agree. Each option has pros/cons and depending on your army some choices become more viable than others (like your Ork example). I personally see nothing wrong with this approach to the rule. To me it seems that the design team knew exactly what they were doing here.

Drunkspleen wrote:

Coyote81 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Nope, both pieces of wargear act together, meaning you roll off to see which one takes precedence that round.

This is correct, It's on page 2 of the BGB.

Except, as I said before, Unwieldy isn't an initiative modifier, and thus, that part of the rules has no bearing on it.

Oh, yea I see that, you got me there. I was assuming it says you strike at I10.

Someone asked: Then wtf are burnas classified as, Idd very much like to know myself!