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This one is pretty easy.

You have Immortals on a Night Scythe and the Night Scythe cannot hover. So, if it wrecks or explodes (page 81 of the new book) do all of the embarked models suffer a strength 10 hit with no armor saves? Page 51 of the Necron book only states that "if the Night Scythe is destroyed the unit is not allowed to disembark, but instead enters reserve (when they arrive they cannon deep strike)."

Doesn't seem to make sense, but the FAQ adds the "Invasion Beams" which allows it to dump the unit even though it has moved.

I would say they take a strength 10 hit. Sucks, but it means that I will be dumping my Immortals much faster then before.

they don't take the hits - remember that if a night scythe wrecks the unit goes into reserves instead

They are not embarked on the night scythe... Just using a portal mounted on the flyer

Only if it disembarks. RAW says that the unit takes the hits before that unit disembarks.

Right?

hmmm its a mad one.... i think the rule needed re-wording in the FAQ.

I'd say the unit enters reserve, because i would treat 'destroyed' as either becoming wrecked due to no hull points or exploding due to cannon fire.

i think in t'old 5th edition 'destroyed' was on vehicle damage table as both wrecked & explodes this is probably where the confusion has come from...

hope this clears some stuff up for you

As a Necron player I'm afraid this is pretty cut and dry. Nowhere in the rules does it say that the damage for exploding vehicle or a crashing and burning flyer is related to the models disembarking around the vehicle. They take damage because they are embarked on the transport when it gets blown up. The background material tells us that the passengers are actually on a far away Tomb World or Tomb Ship awaiting teleportation, but RAI does not matter. In game terms they are embarked on the transport.

If it's any consolation this is one of those cases where the Necrons might get a FAQ ruling this in their favour within the next year or two. Untill then, they take the damage like everyone else.

Yeah. My Immortals will be zooming onto the board, getting out ASAP. Not a big deal, but really nerfs the idea of the embarked units just coming in from my Monolith if the Sythe was wrecked. Which means one less reason to have the Monolith.

Remember that the Scythe can go 36" and disembark them so you come out of reserves and zoom up then you are already where your guys want to be so just disembark those lychguard right there and now your opponent has to deal with them.

Exactly. Since you can disembark so far up the board right after you entered play there really aren't many scenarios where your Night Scythes get shot with passengers on board. The lone Quad Gun with interceptor might be able to do it though.

headrattle wrote:Yeah. My Immortals will be zooming onto the board, getting out ASAP. Not a big deal, but really nerfs the idea of the embarked units just coming in from my Monolith if the Sythe was wrecked. Which means one less reason to have the Monolith.

I still kind of like the idea of having a Monolith to pull units out of reserve in case a Night Scythe does get shot down before unloading. You're not always going to have situations where you want to unload your units as soon as the Scythes hit the board.

Bylak wrote:

headrattle wrote:Yeah. My Immortals will be zooming onto the board, getting out ASAP. Not a big deal, but really nerfs the idea of the embarked units just coming in from my Monolith if the Sythe was wrecked. Which means one less reason to have the Monolith.

I still kind of like the idea of having a Monolith to pull units out of reserve in case a Night Scythe does get shot down before unloading. You're not always going to have situations where you want to unload your units as soon as the Scythes hit the board.

I love the idea of the Monolith pulling a unit out of reserve when its Night Scythe explodes, however, The rule is the rule. It just makes that rule much less effective. Hopefully there will be a FAQ of some sort.

Wait a sec... Night scythes can carry immortals?

I thought it was only jump infantry and jet bikes?

I kind of see Therion's point here...but man, it seems like the whole reason they gave the Scythes that special rule in the first place was specifically to shield them from the S10 exploding hits? I mean, so they take the exploding hits and then mysteriously teleport off the board so they can walk on? Even if RAW that is technically true, rationally I don't think anyone thinks that is what was intended. Either way, I definitely agree that it will be cleared up with a FAQ eventually.

Lacross wrote:Wait a sec... Night scythes can carry immortals?

I thought it was only jump infantry and jet bikes?

They are a DT for almost everything that can take one in the necron 'dex

Lacross wrote:Wait a sec... Night scythes can carry immortals?

I thought it was only jump infantry and jet bikes?

Sorry for the stupid question, but how can a unit that cannot select the scythe as a dedicated transport embark on it? It is always in a zoom mode, which doesn't allow embarking.

ShadarLogoth wrote:I kind of see Therion's point here...but man, it seems like the whole reason they gave the Scythes that special rule in the first place was specifically to shield them from the S10 exploding hits? I mean, so they take the exploding hits and then mysteriously teleport off the board so they can walk on? Even if RAW that is technically true, rationally I don't think anyone thinks that is what was intended. Either way, I definitely agree that it will be cleared up with a FAQ eventually.

Wait, hasn't everyone in the thread responded that the exact opposite happens if the Scythe goes down (they don't take the hits cause they're not technically in the Scythe)?

headrattle wrote:I love the idea of the Monolith pulling a unit out of reserve when its Night Scythe explodes, however, The rule is the rule. It just makes that rule much less effective. Hopefully there will be a FAQ of some sort.

Okay so clearly I'm not awake this morning because I don't understand what's going on in this thread at all anymore, lol. The Monolith can pull units out of Reserve. Units that were being transported by a Night Scythe go into Reserve when the Night Scythe explodes, they just can't Deep Strike. Thus the unit that is now in Reserve can "disembark" from the Dimensional Corridor on a Monolith because it isn't a Deep Strike. I'm not sure what you're referring to, unless it's in regard to the unit in a Night Scythe potentially taking the S10 hit.

The necron player i know justifys not taking the damage because they are not described as being within the flier. unless there is somewhere that says that embarked units are considered to be within the vehicle this explanation seems valid. the rule clearly states that only models within the transport take the hit:"If the flier is also a transport, any models within suffer a Strength 10 hit with no armour saves allowed." Key word, "within".

Fluff wise they are not in the Scythe. Rules wise they are. They take the hits.

They're standing at a portal, waiting to step through. Feedback caused by the crash surges through the portal, causing a small explosion. The leftover Necrons are ordered through a different portal and materialize at the board edge.

They are still passengers, as otherwise they cannot use the invasion beam.

If you embark, you are a passenger,

Passengers take damage from explosions.

You must be embarked to Invasion Beam.

SO... my flyer crashes and burns and my "not there" crons have to take a hit and possibly die? Since they can be hit; do they get RP rolls as well? (I know youre gonna say NO)
If the damage gets to them, and then they reserve; wouldnt it stand to reason that they get RP too?

I'm on the side of it not hurting them.

By RAW it does hurt them.

They take a S10 hit with no armour saves allowed, as they are embarked.

If they are not embarked, they CANNOT use the Invasion Beam.

If GW FAQs it to be that they dont take the hit, I would understand, but until then they do.

So make sure you drop em out the turn it arrives!

gregor_xenos wrote:SO... my flyer crashes and burns and my "not there" crons have to take a hit and possibly die? Since they can be hit; do they get RP rolls as well? (I know youre gonna say NO)
If the damage gets to them, and then they reserve; wouldnt it stand to reason that they get RP too?

I'm on the side of it not hurting them.

Hrm... What seems to hurt the RP idea is that you must "Place the Model In Coherency" with the unit... I don't think you can legally measure coherency when the unit isn't on the board.

However... Ever Living tokens are placed where the model died... so, if that's the case, then the character died in the transport, and you should theoretically place the EL token on the board... this would only work if the entire unit got wiped (otherwise you'd have to place him in coherency with his unit), and the EL guy isn't enough to let the non-characters roll for RP.

Kiredor wrote:By RAW it does hurt them.

They take a S10 hit with no armour saves allowed, as they are embarked.

If they are not embarked, they CANNOT use the Invasion Beam.

If GW FAQs it to be that they dont take the hit, I would understand, but until then they do.

So make sure you drop em out the turn it arrives!

The rule doesn't say embarked though, it says "within".

pg. 81 wrote:If the Flyer is also a Transport, any models within suffer a Strength 10 his with no armour saves allowed. Survivors are placed anywhere within 3" of the blast marker's final position and in unit coherency. Any models that cannot be placed are removed as casualties."

I know this is getting really picky, especially with GW's noted history of not wording their rules in the best way possible, but I don't think this is as clear a RAW case as you're making it out to be. Why not use "Embarked" to eliminate all confusion in this regard? Am I arguing semantics here, or is it a deliberate choice of wording by GW? I agree that we're probably not going to get an answer one way or the other, but for the time being it might be something you want to talk to your opponent about first before playing.

EDIT: Also the problems with RP as noted above. Again I know GW has a reputation here with rules and FAQ's, but that seems like kind of a big point to miss clarifying to me.

Bylak wrote:

Kiredor wrote:By RAW it does hurt them.

They take a S10 hit with no armour saves allowed, as they are embarked.

If they are not embarked, they CANNOT use the Invasion Beam.

If GW FAQs it to be that they dont take the hit, I would understand, but until then they do.

So make sure you drop em out the turn it arrives!

The rule doesn't say embarked though, it says "within".

By that logic, none of the models "embarked" on a Vandetta are "within" because I didn't put the models "within" the vandetta. They are embarked.

Fluff doesn't matter. Models are Embarked or they aren't. Embarked models take a hit.

headrattle wrote:

Bylak wrote:

Kiredor wrote:By RAW it does hurt them.

They take a S10 hit with no armour saves allowed, as they are embarked.

If they are not embarked, they CANNOT use the Invasion Beam.

If GW FAQs it to be that they dont take the hit, I would understand, but until then they do.

So make sure you drop em out the turn it arrives!

The rule doesn't say embarked though, it says "within".

By that logic, none of the models "embarked" on a Vandetta are "within" because I didn't put the models "within" the vandetta. They are embarked.

Fluff doesn't matter. Models are Embarked or they aren't. Embarked models take a hit.

This seems pretty cut and dry. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

According to the rules, either you're passengers in the transport or you're not. If you're passengers, then you can use Invasion Beam to disembark, but you also are affected by other rules that affect passengers, such as when a Zooming flyer is destroyed. The fluff is entirely irrelevant here, just as it is irrelevant when it comes to poisoned weapons working on your robots. If we played according to the fluff then every squad of Space Marines would be its own 2000-point army.

Um... Just throwing this out there... From the FAQ " A unit that begins it's Movement phase embarked upon a Night Scythe can disembark before or after the vehicle has moved..."

So according to the FAQ... They are embarked... Yes? just, you know, throwing that out there... NOT SAYING anything... just, like i said, throwing that out there. :-)

Has any of you actually read the Necron codex?

It says so in the night scythe entry that "If the Night scythe is destroyed, the embarked unit is not allowed to disembark, but instead enters reserve.
So they can use the invasion beam and they don't die. Since that's how the RULE is worded.
And since they go straight into reserves they never take the hits.

I find it very silly how people can bend it like this, if so PLEASE explain it to me.

Because the S10 hit is triggered by the transport wreck/explode. The rules say the passengers take the hits *then* they disembark. The Necron rules say instead of disembarking, they go back into reserves. The Necron rules say nothing about not taking the damage.

Either way you are damaging a unit not yet on the board ! the Necrons are never in the Nightscythe

Sorry but i am with the no damage people here and i am confident that once FAQ'ed that will be proven

If they take damage then they can also try there RP but units not on the table ,cant do that ,so by the logic of they take the hits you are saying a unit in reserve, off the table can be damaged but cant move, shoot ,assault or try to come back,also if a lith is on the table and the troops in reserve are going to enter play via its gate and you explode it those troops also get hit

Seems to me the Necrons are OP let's find a way to hurt them

snakel wrote:Either way you are damaging a unit not yet on the board ! the Necrons are never in the Nightscythe

Sorry but i am with the no damage people here and i am confident that once FAQ'ed that will be proven

If they take damage then they can also try there RP but units not on the table ,cant do that ,so by the logic of they take the hits you are saying a unit in reserve, off the table can be damaged but cant move, shoot ,assault or try to come back,also if a lith is on the table and the troops in reserve are going to enter play via its gate and you explode it those troops also get hit

Seems to me the Necrons are OP let's find a way to hurt them

The Necrons are embarked on the Night Scythe - they must be to disembark from it. That's what the actual rules say.
If an FAQ answers differently it is changing the rules. There's no problem with that, but it's a simple fact.

No, your Monolith example is incorrect - iirc it explicitly says models do not embark on it.

You're trying to use fluff to justify the immunity.

Finally, insinuating bias is insulting and reeks of "I have no more arguments I just don't like losing."