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Made in fi
Sister Vastly Superior






I'm playing a game tomorrow against nids, I figured I'd make a Overlord with warscythe and 5 lords with flame gauntlets and put them in a Nightscythe.

However none of these can take it as a dedicated transport.

The Nightscythe is a Flier and Transport, it can NOT Hover.
This means it's only movement is Zoom p.80
"Finally, models cannot embark upon, or disernbark from, a Zooming Flyer."

This means you can not embark upon the Nightscythe as you cannot do that with zooming fliers and the Nightscythe can only Zoom.

Nightscythe Transport rule:
TRANSPORT: The Night Scythe has a transport capacity
of 15. It can carry jump infantry (each model takes up two
points of transport capacity) and Jetbikes (each model takes
up three points of transport capacity). If the Night Scythe is
destroyed, the embarked unit is not allowed to disembark,
but instead enters reserve (when they arrive, they cannot
Deep Strike).

Tomb Blades cannot take a Nightscythe as a dedicated transport which means they can NOT embark upon one.

Wraits, Destroyers and Triarch Praetorians can't either so no Jump Infantry in the codex can use the Nightscythe as a dedicated transport.


So correct me if I'm wrong but the Nightscythe is basically the worst transport in the game, a few units can take it but once they jump out no unit can ever embark on it again?

Please correct me, please tell me I'm wrong!!!

All the FAQ did was add:
"Invasion Beams: A unit that begins its Movement phase embarked upon a Night Scythe can disembark before or after the vehicle has moved....."
Without this rule you wouldn't be able to exit the vehicle...

On page 121 it says a dedicated transport can only be used by the unit it was selected with plus any ICs with it during deployment, once they have exited other units can use it. Fliers ALWAYS start in reserve so this means the Night Scythe can never be used by any other unit than the one it was bought for...

   
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Made in fr
Nihilistic Necron Lord





From the most twisted corners of your psyche

No, it is not the worst transport in the game.
You are forgetting about what it can do.

It is the only flying transport where the squad does not die if the flyer is destroyed.

It is also the only flying transport that can move 36" and still drop its soldiers.

I think that's a fair price to pay for not being able to embark on it.

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LM
What I like stomping


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Island of Nunya, Nunya business!

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
It is also the only flying transport that can move 36" and still drop its soldiers.


Forget about Stormravens did we?

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Made in fr
Nihilistic Necron Lord





From the most twisted corners of your psyche

Grey Templar wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
It is also the only flying transport that can move 36" and still drop its soldiers.


Forget about Stormravens did we?


Oh, they can do that as well?
Where do you see that?

EDIT: Nevermind, found in the BA FAQ

Also, after looking at the codex entry and the FAQ, I would argue that as they did not omit the part about access points in the FAQ concerning the NC entry, that you can still embark on a night scythe, despite it's flyer rules.
It does use a teleporter, after all.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/07/05 22:59:02


What I have
LM
What I like stomping


"EAT THEM! EAT MY CROISSANTS!" - What anyone who runs a cron flyer spam list should have the decency to say.

Proof that GW is trolling Dakka - the strength value for Titan Killer is S

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Made in us
The Conquerer






Island of Nunya, Nunya business!

Stormravens have the Shadow Skies special rule(Skies of Blood for BAs) that lets any unit inside disembark if the transport moved over 12".

The unit is placed anywhere along the vehicles flight path and scatters as per the Deep Strike rules, models can use DoA if they have BA jump packs. If they scatter they all take a DT test. They can't assault after doing this.


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 Arcsquad12 wrote:
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Yes, I play GKs. "Cheese" you say? Take a look at this Terminator, notice he's pewter. Now notice the weight as I termi-sock you. *WACK* NOW!!! I been Playing GKs since their Force Weapons bypassed EW, everyone was WS5, Stormshields ONLY worked in CC, and Justicars cost 50 fricking points each!!! Don't you accuse me of Cheese! I waited for this Cheese and if i am not going to use it against you. Why I aught to shove it in the heater grates and turn the Thermostat up to 70 degrees. CELSIUS! TAKE THAT

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Space Wolf army.  
   
Made in tr
Member of the Malleus





this does not make it bad. It just limits it's options. It is still a very good flyer to run.

6000
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Made in fi
Confessor Of Sins




CthuluIsSpy wrote:It is the only flying transport where the squad does not die if the flyer is destroyed.


And do recall it must be placed in reserves... So you can decide from where and at what speed you want to bring it on after seeing where enemies are after you make your Reserves roll. Truly, with early 6th Necron flyers are stupidly good. I'll not play you, in fact. Go home or find another opponent.
   
Made in fi
Sister Vastly Superior






Yeah, I guess flying 36" and dumping Warriors, Immortals, Deathmarks or Lychguards, then have them standing there for 1 turn and then finally be able to attack could be considered op...

   
Made in fr
Nihilistic Necron Lord





From the most twisted corners of your psyche

MadCowCrazy wrote:Yeah, I guess flying 36" and dumping Warriors, Immortals, Deathmarks or Lychguards, then have them standing there for 1 turn and then finally be able to attack could be considered op...


Yes it is.
Especially since Lychguard are bloody hard to kill.
Though really, who loads deathmarks in transports?

What I have
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What I like stomping


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Made in cn
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





From England. Living in Shanghai

The fact that you can now pinpoint insert them up to 36" in next to your chosen unit instead of relying on a DS roll makes it a lot more viable.
   
Made in fr
Nihilistic Necron Lord





From the most twisted corners of your psyche

Lukus83 wrote:The fact that you can now pinpoint insert them up to 36" in next to your chosen unit instead of relying on a DS roll makes it a lot more viable.


huh, I haven't thought of that.
Sound like fun.

What I have
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What I like stomping


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Made in nz
Regular Dakkanaut




And if you move less than 24, they fire at full bs.

So with a full unit of deathmarks, you can drop em 3" away from that squad you marked, and then blast em with rapid fire 2+ wounding shots, without worrying about scatter, dangerous terrain or mishaps.
   
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From England. Living in Shanghai

Personally I don't take Deathmarks for the 2+ rending shots. I take them for the HoDespair teks that wound on 2's vs the chosen unit with an AP1 flamer. Sometimes even 2 of them. The Deathmarks are icing.
   
Made in nz
Regular Dakkanaut




Well my point still stands, cos you can (moving less than 24) drop them in a perfect place for a flamer, without worrying about scatter etc.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Kiredor wrote:And if you move less than 24, they fire at full bs.

So with a full unit of deathmarks, you can drop em 3" away from that squad you marked, and then blast em with rapid fire 2+ wounding shots, without worrying about scatter, dangerous terrain or mishaps.


This, to OP I believe it is one of the best transports in the game. Move 24 disembark shoot at full bs. I ran one with a squad of deathmarks and abyssal cryptek and a destroyer lord. Do you have any idea how cool preferred enemy is one weapons that wound on a 2+ with rerolling of all 1's. Especially the Cryptek AP1 template. Hello!


Also are there any other armies that can get a flyer without using force org?

Really the only problem with the nightsythe is you can't get back on it, but after it delivers its precious payload it becomes only a minorly over price Tesla platform.
Another limitation is that since it is zooming really you need to disembark in the 18-24 butter zone.

Still even with these two glaring over sights by GW I think it is good.

on a side note if any of you watched stargate atlantis, when I here invasion beamer I think of the wraith ships. And a very cool method of using the beamers would have been to draw a line from beginning to end of the night scythes movement. An embarked unit can deploy anywhere along that line, or a unit that was moved over by the night scythe may embark.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/06 01:20:30


 
   
Made in us
[MOD]








tgf wrote:
Kiredor wrote:And if you move less than 24, they fire at full bs.

So with a full unit of deathmarks, you can drop em 3" away from that squad you marked, and then blast em with rapid fire 2+ wounding shots, without worrying about scatter, dangerous terrain or mishaps.


This, to OP I believe it is one of the best transports in the game. Move 24 disembark shoot at full bs. I ran one with a squad of deathmarks and abyssal cryptek and a destroyer lord. Do you have any idea how cool preferred enemy is one weapons that wound on a 2+ with rerolling of all 1's. Especially the Cryptek AP1 template. Hello!


Also are there any other armies that can get a flyer without using force org?


They get their move a well do they not? So, 24" plus 6" move plus 12" rapid fire = 42" threat range. As you pointed out, add a DespairTek and then it's pick a unit and watch it die.


Not to mention it packs a TL Tesla Destructor---which can serve as AA, kills light armor, infantry, etc.

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Longtime Dakkanaut





Yes they still get 6 inch deploy also.
   
Made in fi
Sister Vastly Superior






Hmm, made a new list with 2 units of 10 Lychguards in Night Scythes joined by my Overlord with Warscythe and 1 Lord with Warscythe in each. So basically 23 models with Warscythes will be jumping into the Tyranid deployment zone. Only problem is that every single one of his gaunts will have poison weapons so ignore my toughness 5.

I really wish there was a lord that made Flayed Ones Troops, then you could make a complete close combat Necron army...

   
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MadCowCrazy wrote:Hmm, made a new list with 2 units of 10 Lychguards in Night Scythes joined by my Overlord with Warscythe and 1 Lord with Warscythe in each. So basically 23 models with Warscythes will be jumping into the Tyranid deployment zone. Only problem is that every single one of his gaunts will have poison weapons so ignore my toughness 5.

I really wish there was a lord that made Flayed Ones Troops, then you could make a complete close combat Necron army...


Gaze of Flame brother, it will help you with your gaunt problem, to bad its not on a dispairtek.
   
Made in us
[MOD]








MadCowCrazy wrote:Hmm, made a new list with 2 units of 10 Lychguards in Night Scythes joined by my Overlord with Warscythe and 1 Lord with Warscythe in each. So basically 23 models with Warscythes will be jumping into the Tyranid deployment zone. Only problem is that every single one of his gaunts will have poison weapons so ignore my toughness 5.

I really wish there was a lord that made Flayed Ones Troops, then you could make a complete close combat Necron army...



Yeah I'm not sure if you want to be jumping into Tyranid lines now. Considering you might be facing;

60ish Gants
3 Tervigons with biomancy powers
2 x Tyrants


Which will probably be a pretty standard Nid tourney list.

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Boston, MA

Listen to me, and listen very carefully.

Necron Airforce is currently the best army list in the game.

You can put troops (which are quite good, at least at shooting) and ICs, and attached court units (up to two) in the nightscythe, in fairly unit sizes.

3 Doomscythes can fly up 36" inches on turn 2 (unlikely to get all 3, turn 2 but certainly not rare) kill basically all your tanks with their 3d6" doom beam. (keep in mind, depending on density, each beam will likely catch several vehicles and units) There's very little the enemy can do to stop this from happening, at most they will have one interceptor AA gun on a building. They also get that big tesla thing, which is just gravy.

The nightscythes, however many came in, can fly up 36" if they have to, but more likely 24", the troops get out, reliably, without risk of mishap (unlike a stormraven), and go a long way towards blasting away any troops that are on the ground or that got dumped from transports. They get to place where they want, and can be pretty safe from assault, cuz everything shoots at 24", now. Again, those big tesla guns get to fire on the night scythes.

All flyers probably get another turn of shooting, maybe two, before they have to leave the board.

There's some tricks you can do to mitigate this tactic, but no real way to fight it. Main thing that's holding you back is that you need a certain number of units on the board to start (flyers don't count, but the units inside do).

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Numberless Necron Warrior




CthuluIsSpy wrote:No, it is not the worst transport in the game.
You are forgetting about what it can do.

It is the only flying transport where the squad does not die if the flyer is destroyed.



Actually no. Before this might have been true, however, now the embarked unit has to take a S10 AP- hit for every model. The survivors are then placed in reserves. Night Scythes are very important to my list, however, I am unable to find any rule that states that they don't take a hit when the Night Scythe is destroyed.

If you can find a rule that says that they don't, please tell me.

See this discussion:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/459610.page

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Scythes are actually pretty damn good.

How about Looted Wagons. THAT's a crappy transport, or alternately a crappy Basilisk wanna-be...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/06 04:58:02


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Island of Nunya, Nunya business!

Spetulhu wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:It is the only flying transport where the squad does not die if the flyer is destroyed.


And do recall it must be placed in reserves... So you can decide from where and at what speed you want to bring it on after seeing where enemies are after you make your Reserves roll. Truly, with early 6th Necron flyers are stupidly good. I'll not play you, in fact. Go home or find another opponent.


Gee, I hope thats Sarcasim. Just because something is good you won't play against it?


We spend sooo much time complaining about how X codex/unit sucks and GW needs to fix it, then we complain how its all OP OMG WTFGW!!! when they do fix it.

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Yes, I play GKs. "Cheese" you say? Take a look at this Terminator, notice he's pewter. Now notice the weight as I termi-sock you. *WACK* NOW!!! I been Playing GKs since their Force Weapons bypassed EW, everyone was WS5, Stormshields ONLY worked in CC, and Justicars cost 50 fricking points each!!! Don't you accuse me of Cheese! I waited for this Cheese and if i am not going to use it against you. Why I aught to shove it in the heater grates and turn the Thermostat up to 70 degrees. CELSIUS! TAKE THAT

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Ferocious Blood Claw




Where does it say you can't embark in a flyer? I must be blind
   
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The Conquerer






Island of Nunya, Nunya business!

You can't Embark/Disembark from a Zooming flyer, unless its a Nightscythe or Stormraven.

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 Arcsquad12 wrote:
a Burrito is not an orgy.

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Yes, I play GKs. "Cheese" you say? Take a look at this Terminator, notice he's pewter. Now notice the weight as I termi-sock you. *WACK* NOW!!! I been Playing GKs since their Force Weapons bypassed EW, everyone was WS5, Stormshields ONLY worked in CC, and Justicars cost 50 fricking points each!!! Don't you accuse me of Cheese! I waited for this Cheese and if i am not going to use it against you. Why I aught to shove it in the heater grates and turn the Thermostat up to 70 degrees. CELSIUS! TAKE THAT

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Space Wolf army.  
   
Made in us
Member of the Malleus



Boston, MA

Grey Templar wrote:You can't Embark/Disembark from a Zooming flyer, unless its a Nightscythe or Stormraven.


Also Valkyrie.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
headrattle wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:No, it is not the worst transport in the game.
You are forgetting about what it can do.

It is the only flying transport where the squad does not die if the flyer is destroyed.



Actually no. Before this might have been true, however, now the embarked unit has to take a S10 AP- hit for every model. The survivors are then placed in reserves. Night Scythes are very important to my list, however, I am unable to find any rule that states that they don't take a hit when the Night Scythe is destroyed.

If you can find a rule that says that they don't, please tell me.

See this discussion:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/459610.page


Sigh, that is faceplam funny.

Anyway, so what? Just get them out turn it comes in. Consider it a perfect deep strike with attached fire support.

Like I said, best list in the game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/06 05:34:28


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Washington, USA

It really seems like they shouldn't take the hits, but that's not what the rules say. Sadness.....
Still really great units. If you're really worried about interceptors killing them when they come in, you could try hitting those particular units on turn one with some long range shooting (36 inch crypteks, gaus stalker, doomsday ark).


 
   
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Numberless Necron Warrior




Sir_Prometheus wrote:
Sigh, that is faceplam funny.

Anyway, so what? Just get them out turn it comes in. Consider it a perfect deep strike with attached fire support.

Like I said, best list in the game.


I agree for the most part. I will still use them, but they will jump out asap. With the flyer rules, they will have good range, and be very accurate. But yes. Accurate Deep Strike. I will still use em.
But it negates the need for my Monolith (which came in handy before.) But that is OK. Now I can have more jump troops!

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North Denver

In the codex it lists that you treat the base of the scythe to embark and disembark and that you may do so if your models are all within 2" of it at the end of the movement phase.

Since this is codex, doesn't this override codex ruling on embarkation? It specfically permisses us to embark. (longshot, I know)

In the rulebook, does it say you must place the models that were embarked in the flyer and THEN take the hit, or to take the hit, THEN place?

If you place then hit, we take no damage, as they don't end up on the table. Otherwise, we're boned.

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