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So, here's an idea.

You take a loota squad, you give it a mek with Mega Armor. Now the whole squad gains the advantages of Slow and Purposeful (yes, it says that in the rulebook under slow and purposeful). Give the whole squad a battle wagon ride.

Question, does Slow and Purposeful override the following:

When a transport moves at combat speed, do they still count as stationary?
When a transport moves at cruising speed, can they shoot normally (ie, not snap shots)
When a transport moves flat out, can they shoot?

I believe nothing shoots on a flat out move... BTB is at home...

1) Yes.

2) No. They can only snap fire.

3) No.

Shadelkan wrote:So, here's an idea.

You take a loota squad, you give it a mek with Mega Armor. Now the whole squad gains the advantages of Slow and Purposeful (yes, it says that in the rulebook under slow and purposeful). Give the whole squad a battle wagon ride.

Question, does Slow and Purposeful override the following:

When a transport moves at combat speed, do they still count as stationary?
When a transport moves at cruising speed, can they shoot normally (ie, not snap shots)
When a transport moves flat out, can they shoot?

Except it doesn't work that way. The rule could be phrased clearer, but is worded to say:

Any unit that contains at least one model with Slow and Purposeful CANNOT Run, Turboboost, Move Flat out, etc. (all the negative movement rules)

They (the models with Slow and Purposeful) can shoot with Salvo, etc (all the positive firing rules).

So no, you cannot stick a Mek or Warboss with Slow and Purposeful with a group of Lootas and give them all the special rule. I agree the rule could be worded a bit better, but it's pretty clear that "They" is meant to mean "model with Slow and Purposeful" and not "A unit with Slow and Purposeful models in it".

Expect this to be errated or FAQed, and to get Dread-Socked by any opponent you try to pull this off against

Murrdox wrote:Except it doesn't work that way. The rule could be phrased clearer, but is worded to say:

Any unit that contains at least one model with Slow and Purposeful CANNOT Run, Turboboost, Move Flat out, etc. (all the negative movement rules)

They (the models with Slow and Purposeful) can shoot with Salvo, etc (all the positive firing rules).

So no, you cannot stick a Mek or Warboss with Slow and Purposeful with a group of Lootas and give them all the special rule. I agree the rule could be worded a bit better, but it's pretty clear that "They" is meant to mean "model with Slow and Purposeful" and not "A unit with Slow and Purposeful models in it".

Expect this to be errated or FAQed, and to get Dread-Socked by any opponent you try to pull this off against

When I first looked at slow and purposeful, I thought it worked as the OP did.

This is a compelling argument. I will have to wait until I can look at my brb.

Hmm, argument based on the intended subject of the word 'they' is going to be an un-fun one to have for both sides; especially when they give two anticedent clauses.

Murrdox wrote:

Shadelkan wrote:So, here's an idea.

You take a loota squad, you give it a mek with Mega Armor. Now the whole squad gains the advantages of Slow and Purposeful (yes, it says that in the rulebook under slow and purposeful). Give the whole squad a battle wagon ride.

Question, does Slow and Purposeful override the following:

When a transport moves at combat speed, do they still count as stationary?
When a transport moves at cruising speed, can they shoot normally (ie, not snap shots)
When a transport moves flat out, can they shoot?

Except it doesn't work that way. The rule could be phrased clearer, but is worded to say:

Any unit that contains at least one model with Slow and Purposeful CANNOT Run, Turboboost, Move Flat out, etc. (all the negative movement rules)

They (the models with Slow and Purposeful) can shoot with Salvo, etc (all the positive firing rules).

So no, you cannot stick a Mek or Warboss with Slow and Purposeful with a group of Lootas and give them all the special rule. I agree the rule could be worded a bit better, but it's pretty clear that "They" is meant to mean "model with Slow and Purposeful" and not "A unit with Slow and Purposeful models in it".

Expect this to be errated or FAQed, and to get Dread-Socked by any opponent you try to pull this off against

I disagree. All the other special rules are worded the same and they all confer the benefits of the rule onto the entire unit. Special rules that only affect one model are described as doing so.

newbis wrote:I disagree. All the other special rules are worded the same and they all confer the benefits of the rule onto the entire unit. Special rules that only affect one model are described as doing so.

Examples?

The models (i.e Lootas) don't get the rule, however since in this case, the rule specifies the unit they still benefit/suffer from it. This means that the unit can move and still fire heavy weapons as if they were stationary, but the unit cannot run.

davou wrote:Hmm, argument based on the intended subject of the word 'they' is going to be an un-fun one to have for both sides; especially when they give two anticedent clauses.

Didn't we have a debate about the definition of "is" here in the US a few years back? :-) So "they" should be an equally fun debate here...

imweasel wrote:

newbis wrote:I disagree. All the other special rules are worded the same and they all confer the benefits of the rule onto the entire unit. Special rules that only affect one model are described as doing so.

Examples?

Sure. Furious Charge only affects " a model." So does Hatred, Shred, Rending, etc.

Slow and Purposeful affects "a unit that contains at least one model." Same with Stealth, Stubborn, Hit and Run, etc.

Beast wrote:

Didn't we have a debate about the definition of "is" here in the US a few years back? :-) So "they" should be an equally fun debate here...

Haha, sometimes I'm glad I live in 'The Canada'. Didn't you guys also argue that a pizza was a veggie recently too?

I hadn't heard about pizza as a veggie... :-) Probably someone trying to get out from under Mayor Bloomberg's idiocy...

Anyway... back ot... it sounds like this is legit. Can't believe nobody has thought of this before...

Buddy of mine came up with it. Scares me, to be frank.

So yea, only 1 opinion about this question?

Question, does Slow and Purposeful override the following:

When a transport moves at combat speed, do they still count as stationary?
When a transport moves at cruising speed, can they shoot normally (ie, not snap shots)
When a transport moves flat out, can they shoot?

Beast wrote:I hadn't heard about pizza as a veggie... :-) Probably someone trying to get out from under Mayor Bloomberg's idiocy...

Anyway... back ot... it sounds like this is legit. Can't believe nobody has thought of this before...

Enjoy; http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45306416/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition/t/pizza-vegetable-congress-says-yes/

And on to original topic, I agree with person above who posted that rules effecting one character are listed as such. Reinterpreting how a rule "was meant to be worded" is broken logic.

Unfortinately, the transport rules are very clear about what can and cant shoot out of moving vehicles.

Yes to lootas moving and shooting, no to them ignoring a 13'' move and shooting at full bs.

Murrdox wrote:

Shadelkan wrote:So, here's an idea.

You take a loota squad, you give it a mek with Mega Armor. Now the whole squad gains the advantages of Slow and Purposeful (yes, it says that in the rulebook under slow and purposeful). Give the whole squad a battle wagon ride.

Question, does Slow and Purposeful override the following:

When a transport moves at combat speed, do they still count as stationary?
When a transport moves at cruising speed, can they shoot normally (ie, not snap shots)
When a transport moves flat out, can they shoot?

Except it doesn't work that way. The rule could be phrased clearer, but is worded to say:

Any unit that contains at least one model with Slow and Purposeful CANNOT Run, Turboboost, Move Flat out, etc. (all the negative movement rules)

They (the models with Slow and Purposeful) can shoot with Salvo, etc (all the positive firing rules).

So no, you cannot stick a Mek or Warboss with Slow and Purposeful with a group of Lootas and give them all the special rule. I agree the rule could be worded a bit better, but it's pretty clear that "They" is meant to mean "model with Slow and Purposeful" and not "A unit with Slow and Purposeful models in it".

Expect this to be errated or FAQed, and to get Dread-Socked by any opponent you try to pull this off against

Maybe have a look at:
- Acute senses
- Adamantium Will
- ATSKNF
- Counter-Attack
- Crusader
- Fearless
- Hit&Run
- Infiltrate
- Monster Hunter
- Move through cover
- Nightvision
- Outflank
- Preferred Enemy
- Scout
- Shrouded
- Skilled Rider
- Stealth
- Split fire
- Stubborn
- Tank Hunters
- Zealot

And then tell us again, how one model can not confer the benefits of a special rule to the entire unit.

Feel free to kan-flail yourself.

edit: Fixed.

Again you are not giving the other models the rule, they just reap the benefits (and setbacks) of the special rule. A squad of Scout Marines led by Telion benefit from his Stealth rule, but do not get the Stealth rule. Slight but important difference.

*Pays the nitpick fee*

You're right, of course.

Yay fee for picking nits. I almost have enough to by an internetz.

(sorry)

Jidmah wrote:
Maybe have a look at:
- Acute senses
- Adamantium Will
- ATSKNF
- Counter-Attack
- Crusader
- Fearless
- Hit&Run
- Infiltrate
- Monster Hunter
- Move through cover
- Nightvision
- Outflank
- Preferred Enemy
- Scout
- Shrouded
- Skilled Rider
- Stealth
- Split fire
- Stubborn
- Tank Hunters
- Zealot

And then tell us again, how one model can not confer the benefits of a special rule to the entire unit.

Feel free to kan-flail yourself.

edit: Fixed.

I never said that one model can not confer the benefits of a special rule to the entire unit. As you've pointed out, there are many instances where it does. However, most of the rules you've posted are more specific. The rule is usually phrased as "If a model in this unit has rule X, then the unit may Y" (e.g. Acute Senses) , or in some cases the rule specifies "If a unit has at least one model with Rule X in it, then all models with Rule X may Y" (Counter-Attack). Slow and Purposeful instead uses "They" which is a bit ambiguous.

My point is that for this specific rule, the negatives are referred to specifically affect "the unit" and I read "they" in the second part that talks about the positives to mean the models that actually posses the rule. Yeah this is a bit RAI instead of RAW and I could be wrong. It's difficult to find an exact comparison rule. Most other USRs refer to "The Unit" and never use a word like "They". Look at Crusader, for example. Why is Slow and Purposeful not phrased exactly that way instead?

The first sentence uses the unit as the subject of the sentence, and all sentences afterward refer to "they", indicating the subject of the previous sentence. Not sure if British English is different than American English in this regard, but it reads that the unit gets the S&P benefits and drawbacks in correct English (assuming grammar rules are constant on both sides of the pond.)

Whether this was intended or not, none can say with certainty besides the author.

Culler wrote:Whether this was intended or not, none can say with certainty besides the author.

It's GW. I doubt even the author knows the intent.

davou wrote:

Beast wrote:I hadn't heard about pizza as a veggie... :-) Probably someone trying to get out from under Mayor Bloomberg's idiocy...

Anyway... back ot... it sounds like this is legit. Can't believe nobody has thought of this before...

Enjoy; http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45306416/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition/t/pizza-vegetable-congress-says-yes/
s.

NO ONE claimed a pizza was a vegetable. What they claimed was that tomato concentrate (being made out of tomatos) was valid for getting one vegetable serving for the day. Tomato concentrate (tomato paste) is used in making pizza.

davou wrote:

Beast wrote:

Didn't we have a debate about the definition of "is" here in the US a few years back? :-) So "they" should be an equally fun debate here...

Haha, sometimes I'm glad I live in 'The Canada'. Didn't you guys also argue that a pizza was a veggie recently too?

Hey Europe said water wasn't hydrating. We could do worse.

Murrdox wrote:I never said that one model can not confer the benefits of a special rule to the entire unit. As you've pointed out, there are many instances where it does. However, most of the rules you've posted are more specific. The rule is usually phrased as "If a model in this unit has rule X, then the unit may Y" (e.g. Acute Senses) , or in some cases the rule specifies "If a unit has at least one model with Rule X in it, then all models with Rule X may Y" (Counter-Attack). Slow and Purposeful instead uses "They" which is a bit ambiguous.

My point is that for this specific rule, the negatives are referred to specifically affect "the unit" and I read "they" in the second part that talks about the positives to mean the models that actually posses the rule. Yeah this is a bit RAI instead of RAW and I could be wrong. It's difficult to find an exact comparison rule. Most other USRs refer to "The Unit" and never use a word like "They". Look at Crusader, for example. Why is Slow and Purposeful not phrased exactly that way instead?

All other rules that only affect a model, weapon, or only units only consisting of models with a special rule are also specific on that.

Besides, "they" is plural, while the model having S&P is talked about in singular. I might no longer be living in an English-speaking country, but I'm pretty sure that "They" would never refer to a single model.

Happyjew wrote:

Culler wrote:Whether this was intended or not, none can say with certainty besides the author.

It's GW. I doubt even the author knows the intent.

The intent was to sell more lootas...

Of course they weren't thinking about orks. The FAQ perfectly demonstrates that. The amount of broken rules and loopholes in our codex is ridiculous.

White Ninja wrote:

davou wrote:

Beast wrote:

Didn't we have a debate about the definition of "is" here in the US a few years back? :-) So "they" should be an equally fun debate here...

Haha, sometimes I'm glad I live in 'The Canada'. Didn't you guys also argue that a pizza was a veggie recently too?

Hey Europe said water wasn't hydrating. We could do worse.

Link?