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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Dallas Texas

Feast of Blades , a national qualification GT Tournament, and non-invitational GT announced how they will be playing 6th edition

Below is the announcement for the FOB Tournament, this topic is to discuss the possible ramifications of how this tournament will play out.

Spoiler:

After extensive play-testing and hours of discussion we have come to a decision on what the qualifiers will look like in 6th edition.

- All qualifiers after Aug 1st will be held in 6th edition.
- Qualifiers will be at 2000 points.
- Qualifiers will be played "by the book." with the following exceptions below

- Qualifiers will NOT be using "mysterious terrain," rules. (p.102-103)
- Qualifiers will NOT be using "Archotech artefacts" rules (p 106)
- Qualifiers will NOT be using "unique terrain," rules (p. 107)

We put a lot of effort and time into this decision but if you have questions you are welcome to email Feastofblades (at) gmail (dot) com.

As a note: Allies, double FOC and Fortifications (buyable terrain) are in and are 'by the book,' for using them

Thank you,

Feast of Blades


Allies , double FOC, and Fortifications are on.

Allies - Well units that already exist, with units that already exist isnt that bad. Tyranids get absolutly screwed, and CSM until they get a new book have some game breaking combinations (lol plague marines). Interestingly enough, neither of these things has been adressed.

Buyable Terrain - how on earth....a national GT.....is going to deal with buyable terrain is beyond me, but if they want to deal with it kuddos for them.

Double FOC - My jaw dropped when I saw this. A 2,000 point competitive tournament, is going to allow DOUBLE FOC. This means you can potentially, to my understanding, spam 6 HQ's , 8 Elites, Heavys, Fast Attacks, and 14 troops????? Are you fething kidding me.

Now think about this boys and girls. 18 War Walkers, 18 KillaKans, 40 missile launcher longfangs, 4 Squads of thunderwolf calvary with wolf lords, 4 seer councils with a total of 40 bikes, 18 Broadsides. You can now bring Mephiston, sanginor, Belial, and Draigo all in the same list. You can bring 6 StormRavens. 60 Fire Dragons...Necrons can now bring like 20 armor13 vehices.....you can bring MSU armies with 12+ razorbacks...Dark Eldar can bring 20'ish venoms....IG can spam 18 Vandettas(with flier rules have fun rofl)......CSM can spam 18 Oblidorators...orks can bring like 8 battlewaggons....GK can bring 6 NDK's(I dont think this is killable with all the ap2 nerfs).....6 Landraiders..... Like my mind cant even comprehend all the stupid combinations that armies can now bring......seriously lol????????????????

In my opinion, double FOC at 2,000 points will absolutly break the game and replaces tactics with how much $$$$ your willing to dish out in the next month. I dont think GW intended double FOC for tournament play, rather for larger scale friendly non-apocalpse games where friends could use their entire collections against each other for fun. FOC charts were meant to balance the game between assault and shooting and roles. The game (up until this point) forced you to bring lackluster units, which evened the game out substantially. I predict, that players allowed to bring double FOC to a 2000 point tournament, will basically turn into the new Ard Boys. Who can bring the most overpowered list, buy and spam heavy support choices. It wont be about synergy or playing the mission, it will be about which player can spam whats overpowered in their army and spam their opponent off the board.

Thoughts?

If your going to FoB does this concern you at all, or does spamming 8 heavy support choices sound invigorating?



This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2012/07/11 05:41:49


5000+ pts. Eldar 2500pts
"The only thing that match's the Eldar's firepower, is their arrogance".
8th General at Alamo GT 2011.
Tied 2nd General Alamo GT 2012
Top General Lower Bracket Railhead 2011
Top General Railhead 2012
# of Local Tournaments Won: 4
28-9-1 In Tournaments As Eldar.
Maintained a 75% Win Ratio As Eldar in 5th Edition GT's.



 
   
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Mah Hizzy

Well at least they made it only for qualifiers you gotta try it first and you gotta think that more missions will be more capture have to negate nontroop heavy missions. I do agree some lists will be slowed but I don't think it'll be all bad.

2000 
   
Made in us
Horrific Horror






To be honest, while I think double FOC related spam will not be fun to face and will lead to bland games and builds, I don't think it will be too much of an issue. All of the thinks you stated cost way too many points to effectively put on the table. If they put all their points somewhere stupid then that is less points spent being balanced.

Look at the FoB missions. Balanced will carry the day.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Dallas Texas

L'Etat C'Est Moi wrote:To be honest, while I think double FOC related spam will not be fun to face and will lead to bland games and builds, I don't think it will be too much of an issue. All of the thinks you stated cost way too many points to effectively put on the table. If they put all their points somewhere stupid then that is less points spent being balanced.

Look at the FoB missions. Balanced will carry the day.


You do understand I posted an Eldar list that gets 216 str6 shots per turn......with a few of those guided......4 troop choices, and the psychic power that makes you re-roll armor saves.

I can kill 30 marines a turn rolling average.....and it has nothing to do with skill , it just requires me to spend another 270$ on the hobby.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/06 23:35:33


5000+ pts. Eldar 2500pts
"The only thing that match's the Eldar's firepower, is their arrogance".
8th General at Alamo GT 2011.
Tied 2nd General Alamo GT 2012
Top General Lower Bracket Railhead 2011
Top General Railhead 2012
# of Local Tournaments Won: 4
28-9-1 In Tournaments As Eldar.
Maintained a 75% Win Ratio As Eldar in 5th Edition GT's.



 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Lord Commander






San Jose, CA

Smitty0305 wrote:Now think about this boys and girls. 18 War Walkers, 18 KillaKans, 40 missile launcher longfangs, 4 Squads of thunderwolf calvary with wolf lords, 4 seer councils with a total of 40 bikes, 18 Broadsides. You can now bring Mephiston, sanginor, Belial, and Draigo all in the same list. You can bring 6 StormRavens. 60 Fire Dragons...Necrons can now bring like 20 armor13 vehices.....you can bring MSU armies with 12+ razorbacks...Dark Eldar can bring 20'ish venoms....IG can spam 18 Vandettas(with flier rules have fun rofl)......CSM can spam 18 Oblidorators...orks can bring like 8 battlewaggons....GK can bring 6 NDK's(I dont think this is killable with all the ap2 nerfs).....6 Landraiders..... Like my mind cant even comprehend all the stupid combinations that armies can now bring......seriously lol???????????????
It's still just 2000 pts. Once you take a mandatory 2 HQs (4 if you want allies) and 4 mandatory Troops (6 with allies), about the worst thing you can manage is absurd numbers of Long Fangs (which, granted, is pretty bad). Or 6 non-venerable Psyfleman dreads, I suppose.

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
Made in ca
Terminator with Assault Cannon





Yo, who cares? Just vote with your dollar, man-- if you don't like it, don't go. Personally, I think that double FOCs are busted and I won't go to events that allow them. But I'm willing to admit that I might be wrong, and it could be that events like this end up being good.

If double FOC is balanced, I wish to believe that double FOC is balanced; if double FOC is unbalanced, I wish to believe that double FOC is unbalanced. There's no real way for me to find out which is the case until we play some games with it, so I'm not exactly against having a few such events to test the waters. I won't be one of the ones going to test it out at first, but I do think events like this have a place and it may be that they'll end up being the standard.

BAO 2013: Best Space Marine 
   
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Lord Commander






San Jose, CA

The sad thing is, I still can't come up with a Tyranid list that would take advantage of this. At best, you can add a few more Hive Guard, or maybe some Zoanthropes.

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Herald of Nurgle






Eternal Plague

That would be alot of Tyranid Primes....

And so many Genestealers with Broodlord upgraded and rocking new Psyker powers...

Spam Psychic Shriek all day long.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/07/07 00:16:37


   
Made in us
Shunting Grey Knight Interceptor




Boston, MA

Calm down, Chicken Little, the sky is not falling.

You do realize, that at 2000 points, to take 18 Obliterators, the CHEAPEST you could run to make it happen is

Lord - 90 points
Lord - 90 Points
5 CSM w/ Rhino- 110
5 CSM w/ Rhino- 110
5 CSM w/ Rhino- 110
5 CSM w/ Rhino- 110
18 Obliterators - 1350 points

And that brings you to 1970 points. Notice that all the above has 0 Wargear.

1 Flyer will mop the floor with this army. Good luck holding objectives. The same goes for anything below you posted.

Sure, you can take a billon heavies, but if it's not a "Big Guns" kind of mission, then there is no way for you to win, and then only thing you've done is wasted your time, and presumably three other people's.



0000 - Rest Period - BUT YOU BETTER NOT SPEND FOUR WHOLE HOURS SLEEPING. IF YOU DO YOU ARE NOT ANGRY ENOUGH AND TOMORROW YOU GET THE FIRST CHANCE TO PLAY PIN THE TAU ON THE CARNIFEX. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






I honestly don't see allies or double force org a huge deal.

1. Like djdarknoise shows... extreme spam is costly. Sure you can take 90 lootas or some crazy bullcrap but you will be without a *LOT* of core stuff. Being spam extreme will mean you will ultra faceroll some builds and be ultra screwed by others.

2. You still gotta show up at the tourney with the models... How many people REALLY are gonna pay the spam tax? I have 20k+ of orks from 20 years of collecting, I still only have 45 lootas and 15 Kanz. I couldn't field an extreme max doubleforceorg ork list if I wanted to. Does someone honestly own 18 oblits? Is someone honestly going to go buy 18 oblits? If you show up at a tourney with 18 painted oblits... more power to you!

I honestly don't think it is a big deal... but I could be proven horribly horribly wrong. But I feel it is ok for tourneys to run with it and let people potentially bring a list that breaks the game wide-open. Give it some time to see what shakes out and we will have a 2012 indy tourney season of chaos and 2013 will be the 'streamlined' 6th edition season.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/07 01:06:12


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Well, it depends. I think obviously playtesting by a very wide group with tournament missions/etc. in mind is required to come up with a final notion of what should be what. The game designers gave no guidelines for where a game should be played points wise, and tournaments play across the map. With the only official data to go by being the rulebook's "1999 = one FOC only, period," but "one point more and it's not balanced unless you allow 2," it certainly gave us players something to be confused about.

That said, the fact that it's less than 1700 points to field Coteaz, a basic inquisitor, 12 psybolt razorbacks, and 6 psybolt riflemen dreads is not a pleasant thing to think about. With vehicles - especially GK ones - being "kill their hull points or get shot by them next turn" instead of the old glances-can-kill-guns and one-shots-are-easier, there are certainly lists out there that could/can readily flood the field with hulls, wrecks, and blockers to swamp objective missions and the like. It will certainly be interesting to see both single and double FOC playtested at around the 2k mark going forward.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/07 01:18:02


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Herald of Nurgle






Eternal Plague

HQ: 160 points
Tyranid Prime
Tyranid Prime

Elite: 400 points
4x Hive Guard x2

Troops: 1392 points:
12x Genestealer x5
Broodlord

I think this is a good start for Tyranids.

That is 12 units containing pskyers in it. You could swap the Hive Guards for Zoanthropes to spam as many psykers as you can, but this gives you some anti-tank punch.

   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine





The wind swept peaks

Smitty0305 wrote:Feast of Blades , a national qualification GT Tournament, and non-invitational GT announced how they will be playing 6th edition

Below is the announcement for the FOB Tournament, this topic is to discuss the possible ramifications of how this tournament will play out.

Spoiler:

After extensive play-testing and hours of discussion we have come to a decision on what the qualifiers will look like in 6th edition.

- All qualifiers after Aug 1st will be held in 6th edition.
- Qualifiers will be at 2000 points.
- Qualifiers will be played "by the book." with the following exceptions below

- Qualifiers will NOT be using "mysterious terrain," rules. (p.102-103)
- Qualifiers will NOT be using "Archotech artefacts" rules (p 106)
- Qualifiers will NOT be using "unique terrain," rules (p. 107)

We put a lot of effort and time into this decision but if you have questions you are welcome to email Feastofblades (at) gmail (dot) com.

As a note: Allies, double FOC and Fortifications (buyable terrain) are in and are 'by the book,' for using them

Thank you,

Feast of Blades


Allies , double FOC, and Fortifications are on.

Allies - Well units that already exist, with units that already exist isnt that bad. Tyranids get absolutly screwed, and CSM until they get a new book have some game breaking combinations (lol plague marines). Interestingly enough, neither of these things has been adressed.

Buyable Terrain - how on earth....a national GT.....is going to deal with buyable terrain is beyond me, but if they want to deal with it kuddos for them.

Double FOC - My jaw dropped when I saw this. A 2,000 point competitive tournament, is going to allow DOUBLE FOC. This means you can potentially, to my understanding, spam 6 HQ's , 8 Elites, Heavys, Fast Attacks, and 14 troops????? Are you fething kidding me.

Now think about this boys and girls. 18 War Walkers, 18 KillaKans, 40 missile launcher longfangs, 4 Squads of thunderwolf calvary with wolf lords, 4 seer councils with a total of 40 bikes, 18 Broadsides. You can now bring Mephiston, sanginor, Belial, and Draigo all in the same list. You can bring 6 StormRavens. 60 Fire Dragons...Necrons can now bring like 20 armor13 vehices.....you can bring MSU armies with 12+ razorbacks...Dark Eldar can bring 20'ish venoms....IG can spam 18 Vandettas(with flier rules have fun rofl)......CSM can spam 18 Oblidorators...orks can bring like 8 battlewaggons....GK can bring 6 NDK's(I dont think this is killable with all the ap2 nerfs).....6 Landraiders..... Like my mind cant even comprehend all the stupid combinations that armies can now bring......seriously lol????????????????

In my opinion, double FOC at 2,000 points will absolutly break the game and replaces tactics with how much $$$$ your willing to dish out in the next month. I dont think GW intended double FOC for tournament play, rather for larger scale friendly non-apocalpse games where friends could use their entire collections against each other for fun. FOC charts were meant to balance the game between assault and shooting and roles. The game (up until this point) forced you to bring lackluster units, which evened the game out substantially. I predict, that players allowed to bring double FOC to a 2000 point tournament, will basically turn into the new Ard Boys. Who can bring the most overpowered list, buy and spam heavy support choices. It wont be about synergy or playing the mission, it will be about which player can spam whats overpowered in their army and spam their opponent off the board.

Thoughts?

If your going to FoB does this concern you at all, or does spamming 8 heavy support choices sound invigorating?



It doesn't bother me at all. 2 FoC presents a problem with simply buying what's necessary to meet minimum requirements.
And hating on the chaos marine book because we accidentally got something that doesn't suck for the first time in 5 years LOLOLOLOL?
Get a life.

DA:80S+++G+++M++B+I+Pw40k99/re#+D++A+++/fWD255R+++T(T)DM+


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Longtime Dakkanaut





Dallas Texas

Fetterkey wrote:Yo, who cares? Just vote with your dollar, man-- if you don't like it, don't go. Personally, I think that double FOCs are busted and I won't go to events that allow them. But I'm willing to admit that I might be wrong, and it could be that events like this end up being good.

If double FOC is balanced, I wish to believe that double FOC is balanced; if double FOC is unbalanced, I wish to believe that double FOC is unbalanced. There's no real way for me to find out which is the case until we play some games with it, so I'm not exactly against having a few such events to test the waters. I won't be one of the ones going to test it out at first, but I do think events like this have a place and it may be that they'll end up being the standard.


hopefully it turns out to be a fair way of playing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
deathholydeath wrote:
Smitty0305 wrote:Feast of Blades , a national qualification GT Tournament, and non-invitational GT announced how they will be playing 6th edition

Below is the announcement for the FOB Tournament, this topic is to discuss the possible ramifications of how this tournament will play out.

Spoiler:

After extensive play-testing and hours of discussion we have come to a decision on what the qualifiers will look like in 6th edition.

- All qualifiers after Aug 1st will be held in 6th edition.
- Qualifiers will be at 2000 points.
- Qualifiers will be played "by the book." with the following exceptions below

- Qualifiers will NOT be using "mysterious terrain," rules. (p.102-103)
- Qualifiers will NOT be using "Archotech artefacts" rules (p 106)
- Qualifiers will NOT be using "unique terrain," rules (p. 107)

We put a lot of effort and time into this decision but if you have questions you are welcome to email Feastofblades (at) gmail (dot) com.

As a note: Allies, double FOC and Fortifications (buyable terrain) are in and are 'by the book,' for using them

Thank you,

Feast of Blades


Allies , double FOC, and Fortifications are on.

Allies - Well units that already exist, with units that already exist isnt that bad. Tyranids get absolutly screwed, and CSM until they get a new book have some game breaking combinations (lol plague marines). Interestingly enough, neither of these things has been adressed.

Buyable Terrain - how on earth....a national GT.....is going to deal with buyable terrain is beyond me, but if they want to deal with it kuddos for them.

Double FOC - My jaw dropped when I saw this. A 2,000 point competitive tournament, is going to allow DOUBLE FOC. This means you can potentially, to my understanding, spam 6 HQ's , 8 Elites, Heavys, Fast Attacks, and 14 troops????? Are you fething kidding me.

Now think about this boys and girls. 18 War Walkers, 18 KillaKans, 40 missile launcher longfangs, 4 Squads of thunderwolf calvary with wolf lords, 4 seer councils with a total of 40 bikes, 18 Broadsides. You can now bring Mephiston, sanginor, Belial, and Draigo all in the same list. You can bring 6 StormRavens. 60 Fire Dragons...Necrons can now bring like 20 armor13 vehices.....you can bring MSU armies with 12+ razorbacks...Dark Eldar can bring 20'ish venoms....IG can spam 18 Vandettas(with flier rules have fun rofl)......CSM can spam 18 Oblidorators...orks can bring like 8 battlewaggons....GK can bring 6 NDK's(I dont think this is killable with all the ap2 nerfs).....6 Landraiders..... Like my mind cant even comprehend all the stupid combinations that armies can now bring......seriously lol????????????????

In my opinion, double FOC at 2,000 points will absolutly break the game and replaces tactics with how much $$$$ your willing to dish out in the next month. I dont think GW intended double FOC for tournament play, rather for larger scale friendly non-apocalpse games where friends could use their entire collections against each other for fun. FOC charts were meant to balance the game between assault and shooting and roles. The game (up until this point) forced you to bring lackluster units, which evened the game out substantially. I predict, that players allowed to bring double FOC to a 2000 point tournament, will basically turn into the new Ard Boys. Who can bring the most overpowered list, buy and spam heavy support choices. It wont be about synergy or playing the mission, it will be about which player can spam whats overpowered in their army and spam their opponent off the board.

Thoughts?

If your going to FoB does this concern you at all, or does spamming 8 heavy support choices sound invigorating?



It doesn't bother me at all. 2 FoC presents a problem with simply buying what's necessary to meet minimum requirements.
And hating on the chaos marine book because we accidentally got something that doesn't suck for the first time in 5 years LOLOLOLOL?
Get a life.


Im not hating on a book. Its an exploit you can give plague marines that will be fixed when the new codex come out. Until then its an exploit and should be treated as such.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/07 03:22:31


5000+ pts. Eldar 2500pts
"The only thing that match's the Eldar's firepower, is their arrogance".
8th General at Alamo GT 2011.
Tied 2nd General Alamo GT 2012
Top General Lower Bracket Railhead 2011
Top General Railhead 2012
# of Local Tournaments Won: 4
28-9-1 In Tournaments As Eldar.
Maintained a 75% Win Ratio As Eldar in 5th Edition GT's.



 
   
Made in us
Shunting Grey Knight Interceptor




Boston, MA

WarOne wrote:HQ: 160 points
Tyranid Prime
Tyranid Prime

Elite: 400 points
4x Hive Guard x2

Troops: 1392 points:
12x Genestealer x5
Broodlord

I think this is a good start for Tyranids.

That is 12 units containing pskyers in it. You could swap the Hive Guards for Zoanthropes to spam as many psykers as you can, but this gives you some anti-tank punch.


How do you plan to deal with Flyers without a Flyrant?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Smitty0305 wrote:
Im not hating on a book. Its an exploit you can give plague marines that will be fixed when the new codex come out. Until then its an exploit and should be treated as such.


Wait till you see my Deathguard + Epidemus combo that gives me armywide FNP on a 3+ and Bolters that ignore armor.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/07 05:16:16


0000 - Rest Period - BUT YOU BETTER NOT SPEND FOUR WHOLE HOURS SLEEPING. IF YOU DO YOU ARE NOT ANGRY ENOUGH AND TOMORROW YOU GET THE FIRST CHANCE TO PLAY PIN THE TAU ON THE CARNIFEX. 
   
Made in us
Ancient Chaos Terminator






Smitty0305 wrote:Feast of Blades , a national qualification GT Tournament, and non-invitational GT announced how they will be playing 6th edition

Below is the announcement for the FOB Tournament, this topic is to discuss the possible ramifications of how this tournament will play out.

Spoiler:

After extensive play-testing and hours of discussion we have come to a decision on what the qualifiers will look like in 6th edition.

- All qualifiers after Aug 1st will be held in 6th edition.
- Qualifiers will be at 2000 points.
- Qualifiers will be played "by the book." with the following exceptions below

- Qualifiers will NOT be using "mysterious terrain," rules. (p.102-103)
- Qualifiers will NOT be using "Archotech artefacts" rules (p 106)
- Qualifiers will NOT be using "unique terrain," rules (p. 107)

We put a lot of effort and time into this decision but if you have questions you are welcome to email Feastofblades (at) gmail (dot) com.

As a note: Allies, double FOC and Fortifications (buyable terrain) are in and are 'by the book,' for using them

Thank you,

Feast of Blades


Allies , double FOC, and Fortifications are on.

Allies - Well units that already exist, with units that already exist isnt that bad. Tyranids get absolutly screwed, and CSM until they get a new book have some game breaking combinations (lol plague marines). Interestingly enough, neither of these things has been adressed.

Buyable Terrain - how on earth....a national GT.....is going to deal with buyable terrain is beyond me, but if they want to deal with it kuddos for them.

Double FOC - My jaw dropped when I saw this. A 2,000 point competitive tournament, is going to allow DOUBLE FOC. This means you can potentially, to my understanding, spam 6 HQ's , 8 Elites, Heavys, Fast Attacks, and 14 troops????? Are you fething kidding me.

Now think about this boys and girls. 18 War Walkers, 18 KillaKans, 40 missile launcher longfangs, 4 Squads of thunderwolf calvary with wolf lords, 4 seer councils with a total of 40 bikes, 18 Broadsides. You can now bring Mephiston, sanginor, Belial, and Draigo all in the same list. You can bring 6 StormRavens. 60 Fire Dragons...Necrons can now bring like 20 armor13 vehices.....you can bring MSU armies with 12+ razorbacks...Dark Eldar can bring 20'ish venoms....IG can spam 18 Vandettas(with flier rules have fun rofl)......CSM can spam 18 Oblidorators...orks can bring like 8 battlewaggons....GK can bring 6 NDK's(I dont think this is killable with all the ap2 nerfs).....6 Landraiders..... Like my mind cant even comprehend all the stupid combinations that armies can now bring......seriously lol????????????????

In my opinion, double FOC at 2,000 points will absolutly break the game and replaces tactics with how much $$$$ your willing to dish out in the next month. I dont think GW intended double FOC for tournament play, rather for larger scale friendly non-apocalpse games where friends could use their entire collections against each other for fun. FOC charts were meant to balance the game between assault and shooting and roles. The game (up until this point) forced you to bring lackluster units, which evened the game out substantially. I predict, that players allowed to bring double FOC to a 2000 point tournament, will basically turn into the new Ard Boys. Who can bring the most overpowered list, buy and spam heavy support choices. It wont be about synergy or playing the mission, it will be about which player can spam whats overpowered in their army and spam their opponent off the board.

Thoughts?

If your going to FoB does this concern you at all, or does spamming 8 heavy support choices sound invigorating?





18 vendettas at 130 each=2,340 points. It's going to be a little hard to squeeze them into a 2,000 point list.

2k is the new 2,500. Once a gt hits 2k and double foc think of it as ard boys 2.0. I see a lot of 1750, 1850, 1995, and 1999 tournaments in the future for those that don't want to play double foc.

I think fortifications are something we will see all over the place. That being said non purchased terrain is going to remain fixed ie if the to has a giant piece of terrain in a spot that the fort needs to go the fort is sol. Go ahead and blow 250 on a giant fort when it's deployment locations can be limited and it may have crappy lanes of fire. Bastions are much smallest, but we still won't see them often. Aegis defense lines on the other hand...expect to see those all over the place. Player purchased walls is not the end of the game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/07 05:52:19


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schadenfreude wrote:
Smitty0305 wrote:Feast of Blades , a national qualification GT Tournament, and non-invitational GT announced how they will be playing 6th edition

Below is the announcement for the FOB Tournament, this topic is to discuss the possible ramifications of how this tournament will play out.

Spoiler:

After extensive play-testing and hours of discussion we have come to a decision on what the qualifiers will look like in 6th edition.

- All qualifiers after Aug 1st will be held in 6th edition.
- Qualifiers will be at 2000 points.
- Qualifiers will be played "by the book." with the following exceptions below

- Qualifiers will NOT be using "mysterious terrain," rules. (p.102-103)
- Qualifiers will NOT be using "Archotech artefacts" rules (p 106)
- Qualifiers will NOT be using "unique terrain," rules (p. 107)

We put a lot of effort and time into this decision but if you have questions you are welcome to email Feastofblades (at) gmail (dot) com.

As a note: Allies, double FOC and Fortifications (buyable terrain) are in and are 'by the book,' for using them

Thank you,

Feast of Blades


Allies , double FOC, and Fortifications are on.

Allies - Well units that already exist, with units that already exist isnt that bad. Tyranids get absolutly screwed, and CSM until they get a new book have some game breaking combinations (lol plague marines). Interestingly enough, neither of these things has been adressed.

Buyable Terrain - how on earth....a national GT.....is going to deal with buyable terrain is beyond me, but if they want to deal with it kuddos for them.

Double FOC - My jaw dropped when I saw this. A 2,000 point competitive tournament, is going to allow DOUBLE FOC. This means you can potentially, to my understanding, spam 6 HQ's , 8 Elites, Heavys, Fast Attacks, and 14 troops????? Are you fething kidding me.

Now think about this boys and girls. 18 War Walkers, 18 KillaKans, 40 missile launcher longfangs, 4 Squads of thunderwolf calvary with wolf lords, 4 seer councils with a total of 40 bikes, 18 Broadsides. You can now bring Mephiston, sanginor, Belial, and Draigo all in the same list. You can bring 6 StormRavens. 60 Fire Dragons...Necrons can now bring like 20 armor13 vehices.....you can bring MSU armies with 12+ razorbacks...Dark Eldar can bring 20'ish venoms....IG can spam 18 Vandettas(with flier rules have fun rofl)......CSM can spam 18 Oblidorators...orks can bring like 8 battlewaggons....GK can bring 6 NDK's(I dont think this is killable with all the ap2 nerfs).....6 Landraiders..... Like my mind cant even comprehend all the stupid combinations that armies can now bring......seriously lol????????????????

In my opinion, double FOC at 2,000 points will absolutly break the game and replaces tactics with how much $$$$ your willing to dish out in the next month. I dont think GW intended double FOC for tournament play, rather for larger scale friendly non-apocalpse games where friends could use their entire collections against each other for fun. FOC charts were meant to balance the game between assault and shooting and roles. The game (up until this point) forced you to bring lackluster units, which evened the game out substantially. I predict, that players allowed to bring double FOC to a 2000 point tournament, will basically turn into the new Ard Boys. Who can bring the most overpowered list, buy and spam heavy support choices. It wont be about synergy or playing the mission, it will be about which player can spam whats overpowered in their army and spam their opponent off the board.

Thoughts?

If your going to FoB does this concern you at all, or does spamming 8 heavy support choices sound invigorating?





18 vendettas at 130 each=2,340 points. It's going to be a little hard to squeeze them into a 2,000 point list.

2k is the new 2,500. Once a gt hits 2k and double foc think of it as ard boys 2.0. I see a lot of 1750, 1850, 1995, and 1999 tournaments in the future for those that don't want to play double foc.

I think fortifications are something we will see all over the place. That being said non purchased terrain is going to remain fixed ie if the to has a giant piece of terrain in a spot that the fort needs to go the fort is sol. Go ahead and blow 250 on a giant fort when it's deployment locations can be limited and it may have crappy lanes of fire. Bastions are much smallest, but we still won't see them often. Aegis defense lines on the other hand...expect to see those all over the place. Player purchased walls is not the end of the game.


If they are doing terrain, "by the book" then players will be placing fortifications first, then deploying 3d3 peices per player. Also, at double force org, I consider two ADL's w/ Quad guns necessary to the fullest measure, except for maybe guard with hydras.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, 4 Jetbike Seercouncils with 40 bikes total is 2480 points. That wont happen.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/07 07:53:59


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Made in us
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Smitty0305 wrote:Feast of Blades , a national qualification GT Tournament, and non-invitational GT announced how they will be playing 6th edition

Below is the announcement for the FOB Tournament, this topic is to discuss the possible ramifications of how this tournament will play out.

Spoiler:

After extensive play-testing and hours of discussion we have come to a decision on what the qualifiers will look like in 6th edition.

- All qualifiers after Aug 1st will be held in 6th edition.
- Qualifiers will be at 2000 points.
- Qualifiers will be played "by the book." with the following exceptions below

- Qualifiers will NOT be using "mysterious terrain," rules. (p.102-103)
- Qualifiers will NOT be using "Archotech artefacts" rules (p 106)
- Qualifiers will NOT be using "unique terrain," rules (p. 107)

We put a lot of effort and time into this decision but if you have questions you are welcome to email Feastofblades (at) gmail (dot) com.

As a note: Allies, double FOC and Fortifications (buyable terrain) are in and are 'by the book,' for using them

Thank you,

Feast of Blades


Allies , double FOC, and Fortifications are on.

Allies - Well units that already exist, with units that already exist isnt that bad. Tyranids get absolutly screwed, and CSM until they get a new book have some game breaking combinations (lol plague marines). Interestingly enough, neither of these things has been adressed.

Buyable Terrain - how on earth....a national GT.....is going to deal with buyable terrain is beyond me, but if they want to deal with it kuddos for them.

Double FOC - My jaw dropped when I saw this. A 2,000 point competitive tournament, is going to allow DOUBLE FOC. This means you can potentially, to my understanding, spam 6 HQ's , 8 Elites, Heavys, Fast Attacks, and 14 troops????? Are you fething kidding me.

Now think about this boys and girls. 18 War Walkers, 18 KillaKans, 40 missile launcher longfangs, 4 Squads of thunderwolf calvary with wolf lords, 4 seer councils with a total of 40 bikes, 18 Broadsides. You can now bring Mephiston, sanginor, Belial, and Draigo all in the same list. You can bring 6 StormRavens. 60 Fire Dragons...Necrons can now bring like 20 armor13 vehices.....you can bring MSU armies with 12+ razorbacks...Dark Eldar can bring 20'ish venoms....IG can spam 18 Vandettas(with flier rules have fun rofl)......CSM can spam 18 Oblidorators...orks can bring like 8 battlewaggons....GK can bring 6 NDK's(I dont think this is killable with all the ap2 nerfs).....6 Landraiders..... Like my mind cant even comprehend all the stupid combinations that armies can now bring......seriously lol????????????????

In my opinion, double FOC at 2,000 points will absolutly break the game and replaces tactics with how much $$$$ your willing to dish out in the next month. I dont think GW intended double FOC for tournament play, rather for larger scale friendly non-apocalpse games where friends could use their entire collections against each other for fun. FOC charts were meant to balance the game between assault and shooting and roles. The game (up until this point) forced you to bring lackluster units, which evened the game out substantially. I predict, that players allowed to bring double FOC to a 2000 point tournament, will basically turn into the new Ard Boys. Who can bring the most overpowered list, buy and spam heavy support choices. It wont be about synergy or playing the mission, it will be about which player can spam whats overpowered in their army and spam their opponent off the board.

Thoughts?

If your going to FoB does this concern you at all, or does spamming 8 heavy support choices sound invigorating?




It's not going to be much of a tournament. Warhammer 40,000 6th edition is not a tournament game. I dare say; this is stupid.
   
Made in us
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Smitty0305 wrote:
Fetterkey wrote:Yo, who cares? Just vote with your dollar, man-- if you don't like it, don't go. Personally, I think that double FOCs are busted and I won't go to events that allow them. But I'm willing to admit that I might be wrong, and it could be that events like this end up being good.

If double FOC is balanced, I wish to believe that double FOC is balanced; if double FOC is unbalanced, I wish to believe that double FOC is unbalanced. There's no real way for me to find out which is the case until we play some games with it, so I'm not exactly against having a few such events to test the waters. I won't be one of the ones going to test it out at first, but I do think events like this have a place and it may be that they'll end up being the standard.


hopefully it turns out to be a fair way of playing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
deathholydeath wrote:
Smitty0305 wrote:Feast of Blades , a national qualification GT Tournament, and non-invitational GT announced how they will be playing 6th edition

Below is the announcement for the FOB Tournament, this topic is to discuss the possible ramifications of how this tournament will play out.

Spoiler:

After extensive play-testing and hours of discussion we have come to a decision on what the qualifiers will look like in 6th edition.

- All qualifiers after Aug 1st will be held in 6th edition.
- Qualifiers will be at 2000 points.
- Qualifiers will be played "by the book." with the following exceptions below

- Qualifiers will NOT be using "mysterious terrain," rules. (p.102-103)
- Qualifiers will NOT be using "Archotech artefacts" rules (p 106)
- Qualifiers will NOT be using "unique terrain," rules (p. 107)

We put a lot of effort and time into this decision but if you have questions you are welcome to email Feastofblades (at) gmail (dot) com.

As a note: Allies, double FOC and Fortifications (buyable terrain) are in and are 'by the book,' for using them

Thank you,

Feast of Blades


Allies , double FOC, and Fortifications are on.

Allies - Well units that already exist, with units that already exist isnt that bad. Tyranids get absolutly screwed, and CSM until they get a new book have some game breaking combinations (lol plague marines). Interestingly enough, neither of these things has been adressed.

Buyable Terrain - how on earth....a national GT.....is going to deal with buyable terrain is beyond me, but if they want to deal with it kuddos for them.

Double FOC - My jaw dropped when I saw this. A 2,000 point competitive tournament, is going to allow DOUBLE FOC. This means you can potentially, to my understanding, spam 6 HQ's , 8 Elites, Heavys, Fast Attacks, and 14 troops????? Are you fething kidding me.

Now think about this boys and girls. 18 War Walkers, 18 KillaKans, 40 missile launcher longfangs, 4 Squads of thunderwolf calvary with wolf lords, 4 seer councils with a total of 40 bikes, 18 Broadsides. You can now bring Mephiston, sanginor, Belial, and Draigo all in the same list. You can bring 6 StormRavens. 60 Fire Dragons...Necrons can now bring like 20 armor13 vehices.....you can bring MSU armies with 12+ razorbacks...Dark Eldar can bring 20'ish venoms....IG can spam 18 Vandettas(with flier rules have fun rofl)......CSM can spam 18 Oblidorators...orks can bring like 8 battlewaggons....GK can bring 6 NDK's(I dont think this is killable with all the ap2 nerfs).....6 Landraiders..... Like my mind cant even comprehend all the stupid combinations that armies can now bring......seriously lol????????????????

In my opinion, double FOC at 2,000 points will absolutly break the game and replaces tactics with how much $$$$ your willing to dish out in the next month. I dont think GW intended double FOC for tournament play, rather for larger scale friendly non-apocalpse games where friends could use their entire collections against each other for fun. FOC charts were meant to balance the game between assault and shooting and roles. The game (up until this point) forced you to bring lackluster units, which evened the game out substantially. I predict, that players allowed to bring double FOC to a 2000 point tournament, will basically turn into the new Ard Boys. Who can bring the most overpowered list, buy and spam heavy support choices. It wont be about synergy or playing the mission, it will be about which player can spam whats overpowered in their army and spam their opponent off the board.

Thoughts?

If your going to FoB does this concern you at all, or does spamming 8 heavy support choices sound invigorating?



It doesn't bother me at all. 2 FoC presents a problem with simply buying what's necessary to meet minimum requirements.
And hating on the chaos marine book because we accidentally got something that doesn't suck for the first time in 5 years LOLOLOLOL?
Get a life.


Im not hating on a book. Its an exploit you can give plague marines that will be fixed when the new codex come out. Until then its an exploit and should be treated as such.

No, it's not an exploit. It is a valid choice you can take in your army, and a good combo. We wen't thru 5th edition with the Grey Knights facerolling everything near the end. Don't moan and
bitch because Chaos have some good options now. It is not an exploit, and is not going to be fixed. The only way it will change, is if Epidimius is not in the new Chaos Daemon book, which is
a LONG way off.
   
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Eternal Plague

There are some limitations to an Epidemius ally detachment to CSM...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/459839.page

   
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All over

So they used the rules from the book and your mad?

   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




None of those spam armies having any bearing in reality. They are all in your mind. Most of them can't even be fielded because of points limits. Try any of those on the tabletop and you will see they are mostly auto-fail lists. 216 str 6 shots meet armor 14.

I played against a rather tame flyer heavy Necron lists last night which would decimate a Nurgle/Epidermus chaos list. Pease stop jumping to conclusions it makes us all look foolish.
   
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[MOD]
Stone Golem





Beyond the World's Edge Mountains

Now that I'm actually looking at it, for my own codex (blood angels) I'm having trouble fitting in anything game-breaking at 2K, even with 2 FOC, after the required 2 HQs and 4 Troops (at a minimum, that's 500 points if using min scout squads, and more likely 600 if using tac marines).

So that leaves 1400-1500 to go nuts with.

Personally, I wouldn't really want to do an event like that because I just don't think it's necessary at 2K. I'd rather play 1999+1

Long fang spam would certainly be un-fun to play against, for instance...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/07 12:42:12


   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




San Jose, CA

Only certain armies can really take advantage of double-FOC's at 2K and still remain balanced. These are usually the cheaper armies like:


- Coteaz grey knights (as mentioned above) with 6 psyflemans (only 810pts) and psyback-spam

- Dark Eldar w/6 Ravagers/Razorwings (700+ pts)

- Space Wolves w/30-missile long fangs - (840pts)

- Sisters of Battle w/6 exorcists (810pts)

- Orks w/18-killa kans (630+ pts but c'mon, how are they going to deal with flyers?)


Other armies just become plain unpractical or unusable if you try to max out any one of their 6 FOC slots.



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Add Orks with six full units of Lootas.





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In your deployment zone!

Why all the shock about expanded FOC? Its in accordance with the rule book. The events are deciding not to include these rules. So friendly format and event format armies. No thanks. I'll stick to events like this one that allows us to prepare and play prep games.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
cgage00 wrote:So they used the rules from the book and your mad?


QFT!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/07 15:34:29


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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut







Even taking 4 or 5 of one slot is going to be pretty harsh.

Sure, 18 vendettas are over 2000 points, how about 11 or 12? That's only 1500.

There's 5th edition armies out there right now with 6+. They've just gotten even better not needing to squadron anymore.

It's insanity.

And I'm saying this as a Guard player.

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Master Tormentor






Albuquerque, NM

Smitty0305 wrote:
L'Etat C'Est Moi wrote:To be honest, while I think double FOC related spam will not be fun to face and will lead to bland games and builds, I don't think it will be too much of an issue. All of the thinks you stated cost way too many points to effectively put on the table. If they put all their points somewhere stupid then that is less points spent being balanced.

Look at the FoB missions. Balanced will carry the day.


You do understand I posted an Eldar list that gets 216 str6 shots per turn......with a few of those guided......4 troop choices, and the psychic power that makes you re-roll armor saves.

I can kill 30 marines a turn rolling average.....and it has nothing to do with skill , it just requires me to spend another 270$ on the hobby.


Exactly. What you also don't account for smitty is many, many people won't double up their force org as it greatly imbalances their army against other armies. Just like 5th, you need to balance to face EVERYONE. Cool you can take so many shots, too bad you'll never hurt a necron list with it.

As well, I can see the actual gt banning it if they get a lot of complaints from the quals. Well see, I'm trying to go this year (I passed qualifiers last yer, but didn't have the time or money)

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Manchester, NH

You can't play Fortifications "by the book" if you're not doing terrain "by the book", which virtually no store-based event can do.

The alternating terrain deployment rules eat too much clock time, and the varying amounts needed from table to table both add time and make it harder or impossible for many stores to reach the limit. Now, I believe they've selected Qualifier locations from stores with particularly good tables/terrain, but even good stores which have lots and lots of terrain can't get around the time issue, which random rolls for amounts and alternating placement create. You're probably looking at adding at least 20 minutes to each round to allow for those.

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jy2 wrote:Only certain armies can really take advantage of double-FOC's at 2K and still remain balanced. These are usually the cheaper armies like:


- Coteaz grey knights (as mentioned above) with 6 psyflemans (only 810pts) and psyback-spam

- Dark Eldar w/6 Ravagers/Razorwings (700+ pts)

- Space Wolves w/30-missile long fangs - (840pts)

- Sisters of Battle w/6 exorcists (810pts)

- Orks w/18-killa kans (630+ pts but c'mon, how are they going to deal with flyers?)


Other armies just become plain unpractical or unusable if you try to max out any one of their 6 FOC slots.




6 vendettas 780, no need for a 7th. It's kinof like building an effective 1750 list with 2 hq 4 troops and 3 vendettas.

Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.


 
   
 
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