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Made in us
Uhlan





Texas

Well, I have read the rules and I am pretty sure 40k will be struck from my list of games played. It is to much of a throwback to 2nd edition and games will be terribly slow.

Top ten issues:

1. Wound allocation (closest model first) - This will slow the game down considerably with the added bonus of arguments and hurt feelings over who is closest.

2. Need to see it to shoot it - See above

3. Vehicles - Death traps, no more need be said

4. Challenges - Too much a Fantasy thing, needed to stay there

5. Is that an Axe or a Sword - WYSIWYG arguments will be crazy

6. Overwatch - Wow, they really brought that back.

7. I killed the 4 units you deployed on turn one by seizing the initiative, thanks for failing all those armor saves / moral checks, do you want to play again?

8. Eldar runes FTW. Psychic hoods, why bother everyone's got one, take Eldrad and see your enemy Psyker cringe. Except you bugs you're screwed, no one wants to be your friend.

9. Random charge length - Again, too much like Fantasy.

10. You moved your lascannon guy.....No I didn't......Yes you did.......ad nauseum

*Bonus - Your Army wasn't broken by Matt Ward.....WALLA now you can have your cake and eat it too, congrats! Or better still combine 2 Ward Codex's and beat your opponents silly!

All Armies are fully painted
WM/H: Khador (200 pts)
FOW: Early, Mid & Late War Germans (2000+ pts each)
Dystopian Wars: Russian Fleet (1500 pts)
40K: Dark Angels 3rd Battle Company (3000 pts); Deathwing/Ravenwing (3000 pts)
WHFB: Warriors of Chaos (6000 pts) (2012 Round 2 'Ard boyz Champion) 
   
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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




Well reading the rules and actually playing the game by the rules is 2 different things.

Play say 5 games, and then tell me if the game was slowed down? The first 3 or so games will be slow to get use to the rules.

So after 5 games, then see if your complaints are warrented or not. Alot of people are saying the game is just fine as it is.

The sky is not falling.

 
   
Made in us
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control






Raleigh, NCSU

Quick to judge aren't we. Try a couple of games. So far it has been pretty good. Regardless of the rules D-bags will always find something to argue over.

Jidmah wrote:That's why I keep my enemies close and my AOBR rulebook closer.


My Grey Knights

2000 painted
1850 painted
 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor




WA, USA

What group of players do you play with that they argue if you moved a model or not?

So far, all I see is the same tiny violin crying that is all over the place here from people who read the rules, never played a game and are just wanting to whine.

 Ouze wrote:

Afterward, Curran killed a guy in the parking lot with a trident.
 
   
Made in us
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm




Northern Virginia

There willl always be TFG. That guy who wants to WAAC and does not care about fun. The new rules seemed to be aimed at balance and player enjoyment. 5th was nice but it was a mech fest. If you didnt have enough vehicles you got stomped.
   
Made in us
Alluring Sorcerer of Slaanesh






1. Wound allocation (closest model first) - This will slow the game down considerably with the added bonus of arguments and hurt feelings over who is closest.


Check closest, roll a die between them.


2. Need to see it to shoot it - See above
Hows this different from 5th?


3. Vehicles - Death traps, no more need be said


Not that much more.


4. Challenges - Too much a Fantasy thing, needed to stay there


Yet we still have fluff like Halbrect doing his Challenge vs Imohotek on board his ship..Strange, seems very 40k!


5. Is that an Axe or a Sword - WYSIWYG arguments will be crazy


Yeah.


6. Overwatch - Wow, they really brought that back.


Finally


7. I killed the 4 units you deployed on turn one by seizing the initiative, thanks for failing all those armor saves / moral checks, do you want to play again?


What type of crap board are you playing on that would allow for someone to kill you instantly on the first turn? How the is this an issue with the edition? Maybe take some squads that are better than 5 man termagaunt squads maybe, or actually use terrain.


8. Eldar runes FTW. Psychic hoods, why bother everyone's got one, take Eldrad and see your enemy Psyker cringe. Except you bugs you're screwed, no one wants to be your friend.


Meh, I just snipe him, I got a laugh out of someone bringing him with their space marine army with 2 librarians, cause it works on them too.


9. Random charge length - Again, too much like Fantasy.


Also meh, I kinda like it.


10. You moved your lascannon guy.....No I didn't......Yes you did.......ad nauseum


Once again, how is this a edition problem?
   
Made in us
Uhlan





Texas

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
1. Wound allocation (closest model first) - This will slow the game down considerably with the added bonus of arguments and hurt feelings over who is closest.


Check closest, roll a die between them.

A mechanic that will slow the game down with the added bonus of TFG syndrome


2. Need to see it to shoot it - See above
Hows this different from 5th?

Not at all which is the freaking problem. I have seen so many arguments on this one point more than any other. No one gets that hey that is a forest, it is full of trees.

3. Vehicles - Death traps, no more need be said


Not that much more.

3 Glances = Death. They are deathtraps as stated.


4. Challenges - Too much a Fantasy thing, needed to stay there


Yet we still have fluff like Halbrect doing his Challenge vs Imohotek on board his ship..Strange, seems very 40k!

If I wanted to play Fantasy (I do BTW) I would play it.


5. Is that an Axe or a Sword - WYSIWYG arguments will be crazy


Yeah.

Cool modeling gone in favor of less grief from TFG



6. Overwatch - Wow, they really brought that back.


Finally

It is toned down but it is back.


7. I killed the 4 units you deployed on turn one by seizing the initiative, thanks for failing all those armor saves / moral checks, do you want to play again?


What type of crap board are you playing on that would allow for someone to kill you instantly on the first turn? How the is this an issue with the edition? Maybe take some squads that are better than 5 man termagaunt squads maybe, or actually use terrain.

The point here is a round of bad moral could lead to the game ending prematurely. I fail an assload of morale checks BTW.



8. Eldar runes FTW. Psychic hoods, why bother everyone's got one, take Eldrad and see your enemy Psyker cringe. Except you bugs you're screwed, no one wants to be your friend.


Meh, I just snipe him, I got a laugh out of someone bringing him with their space marine army with 2 librarians, cause it works on them too.

If he is well hidden no snipey for you.


9. Random charge length - Again, too much like Fantasy.


Also meh, I kinda like it.

Could go either way on this. Not a fan of that much randomness


10. You moved your lascannon guy.....No I didn't......Yes you did.......ad nauseum


Once again, how is this a edition problem?

If I moved it it is a snap shot, if not I get full BS value. That is a huge difference.

All Armies are fully painted
WM/H: Khador (200 pts)
FOW: Early, Mid & Late War Germans (2000+ pts each)
Dystopian Wars: Russian Fleet (1500 pts)
40K: Dark Angels 3rd Battle Company (3000 pts); Deathwing/Ravenwing (3000 pts)
WHFB: Warriors of Chaos (6000 pts) (2012 Round 2 'Ard boyz Champion) 
   
Made in gb
Powerful Pegasus Knight





bigyounk wrote:6. Overwatch - Wow, they really brought that back.


No they brought back something related but completely different. The old overwatch rules meant you shot at someone as soon as they moved near you.

curran12 wrote:So far, all I see is the same tiny violin crying that is all over the place here from people who read the rules, never played a game and are just wanting to whine.


yup
   
Made in gb
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




Dumbarton, Scotland

bigyounk wrote:
ZebioLizard2 wrote:
1. Wound allocation (closest model first) - This will slow the game down considerably with the added bonus of arguments and hurt feelings over who is closest.


Check closest, roll a die between them.

A mechanic that will slow the game down with the added bonus of TFG syndrome

Get a tape measure. Measure the distance to check what the closest model is. It's that easy.


2. Need to see it to shoot it - See above
Hows this different from 5th?

Not at all which is the freaking problem. I have seen so many arguments on this one point more than any other. No one gets that hey that is a forest, it is full of trees.

Then that's an issue with poor modelling and not agreeing what terrain is what prior to the game, not with rules.

3. Vehicles - Death traps, no more need be said


Not that much more.

3 Glances = Death. They are deathtraps as stated.

Except those glances do nothing else other than remove a hull point. So you can still move out of the way of the shooter, for example.


4. Challenges - Too much a Fantasy thing, needed to stay there


Yet we still have fluff like Halbrect doing his Challenge vs Imohotek on board his ship..Strange, seems very 40k!

If I wanted to play Fantasy (I do BTW) I would play it.

Totally avoided the point of the statement. There have been plenty of one-on-one challenges in 40k fluff.


5. Is that an Axe or a Sword - WYSIWYG arguments will be crazy


Yeah.

Cool modeling gone in favor of less grief from TFG

Once again, modelling problem, not rules. I have termis with power axes that I just use as power swords. No-one so far has had any issue with it.



6. Overwatch - Wow, they really brought that back.


Finally

It is toned down but it is back.

So? It's a good thing.


7. I killed the 4 units you deployed on turn one by seizing the initiative, thanks for failing all those armor saves / moral checks, do you want to play again?


What type of crap board are you playing on that would allow for someone to kill you instantly on the first turn? How the is this an issue with the edition? Maybe take some squads that are better than 5 man termagaunt squads maybe, or actually use terrain.

The point here is a round of bad moral could lead to the game ending prematurely. I fail an assload of morale checks BTW.

Again, what kind of board and army are you using where 4 units can all be taken out turn one? If it's genuinely a worry that you can be tabled turn 1, you really need to work on your army building and deployment.



8. Eldar runes FTW. Psychic hoods, why bother everyone's got one, take Eldrad and see your enemy Psyker cringe. Except you bugs you're screwed, no one wants to be your friend.


Meh, I just snipe him, I got a laugh out of someone bringing him with their space marine army with 2 librarians, cause it works on them too.

If he is well hidden no snipey for you.

Then, oh no, I'll need to adapt. Imagine the idea that the opponent has tried to make me beating him harder!


9. Random charge length - Again, too much like Fantasy.


Also meh, I kinda like it.

Could go either way on this. Not a fan of that much randomness


10. You moved your lascannon guy.....No I didn't......Yes you did.......ad nauseum


Once again, how is this a edition problem?

If I moved it it is a snap shot, if not I get full BS value. That is a huge difference.

We'll simplify this: In the moment phase, did he move? If yes: Snap shot. If no: full BS. Arguing about it is an issue of a player being an arse, not with the rules.


Inquisitorial Strike Force "Stigmata": TBC pts 
   
Made in fi
Nervous Accuser




Finland

I have to admit, this is a very good, intelligent conversation you have here.

01000010 01110101 01110010 01101110 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01101000 01100101 01110010 01100101 01110100 01101001 01100011 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Simple solution to the OP's problem: don't play 6th edition.

Apparently, a white knight for the Friendly Local Game Store, RTFM, and good ole common sense
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Made in se
Cackling Chaos Conscript






I really love the idea that if a guy stay still with a heavy weapon he gets to fire at full BS.
I will gladly take an argument with TFG if it moved or not just to give my autocannon team the possibility to "cover" my advancing guardsmen.
   
Made in gb
Swamp Troll



Northampton

I've been playing 40k since Rogue Trader and I think that 6th is the second best edition yet.

2nd ed was the best IMO.

Only thing that has let it down for me is the poor FAQs that were released last week. So many unanswered questions.

Other than that, it's quite balanced.

Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right.
 
   
Made in gb
Water-Caste Negotiator





bigyounk wrote:Well, I have read the rules and I am pretty sure 40k will be struck from my list of games played. It is to much of a throwback to 2nd edition and games will be terribly slow.

Youve read them, but not played them? Sorry but you're wrong. The game isnt any slower and makes alot more sense

Top ten issues:

1. Wound allocation (closest model first) - This will slow the game down considerably with the added bonus of arguments and hurt feelings over who is closest. Its actually just as quick, adds a more tactical element, and allows firing units to avoid combat by shooting whats charging at them. Look out sir saves characters just fine.

2. Need to see it to shoot it - See above Again, better that way, rewarded for hiding your stuff or finding good firing spots

3. Vehicles - Death traps, no more need be said Incorrect, Almost the same tbh, vehicles get to shoot more, less annoying results, heavy AT gets a bit better

4. Challenges - Too much a Fantasy thing, needed to stay there Yeah, theyre pretty lame :l But not game breaking

5. Is that an Axe or a Sword - WYSIWYG arguments will be crazy Nope its fairly simple...

6. Overwatch - Wow, they really brought that back. Yeah, BS1 shots when you get charged... Its actually a much needed boost to armies like tau and stops 1 man leftovers from crushing a whole unit in silly situations, in no way broken or OP

7. I killed the 4 units you deployed on turn one by seizing the initiative, thanks for failing all those armor saves / moral checks, do you want to play again? Yeah...no..

8. Eldar runes FTW. Psychic hoods, why bother everyone's got one, take Eldrad and see your enemy Psyker cringe. Except you bugs you're screwed, no one wants to be your friend. Not that big of an issue tbh... But fair point

9. Random charge length - Again, too much like Fantasy. Yeah its kinda stupid, but strangely fun for some reason :s still silly though

10. You moved your lascannon guy.....No I didn't......Yes you did.......ad nauseum ...no that doesn't happen, your'e just looking for stuff to make 10 with

*Bonus - Your Army wasn't broken by Matt Ward.....WALLA now you can have your cake and eat it too, congrats! Or better still combine 2 Ward Codex's and beat your opponents silly!

Again, doesn't happen



All in all, you've read a rulebook thinking about what can go wrong, and you've massively overreacted without playing the game. Don't be so silly. If you really think that you must LEAVE THE GAME then ok, but honestly its pretty much the same game with a few improvements, and a few not so great changes

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/07/07 22:04:07


 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Adeptus Ridiculus






Brisbane, Oz

bigyounk wrote:1. Wound allocation (closest model first) - This will slow the game down considerably with the added bonus of arguments and hurt feelings over who is closest.

In practice, I doubt that determining the closest will spawn too many more arguments than LOS has over the last 25 years... meaning 'far more on the internet than in actual games'.

I will admit to not being a fan of the new allocation rules on paper... haven't tried a game yet, so can't comment on actual application, but they do seem like they will slow the game down considerably, though.

2. Need to see it to shoot it - See above

I'm missing how this will slow the game down. You have always needed to be able to see something to shoot it.

3. Vehicles - Death traps, no more need be said

Vehicles became slightly more vulnerable, with the tradeoff being that while they are still alive they can throw out a lot more firepower. Personally, I'm not dumping my Redeemer just yet...

4. Challenges - Too much a Fantasy thing, needed to stay there

I think this is another rule that needs to be played to see how it really affects the game. I do see a few people complaining about Fantasy rules creeping into 40K, and it puzzles me, to be honest. A rule isn't inherently bad just because it exists in another game system.

5. Is that an Axe or a Sword - WYSIWYG arguments will be crazy

How so? You look at the model... if it has a sword, it has a sword. End of argument.

6. Overwatch - Wow, they really brought that back.

Yes and no. They brought back a similar concept, but in a way that doesn't reduce the game to two gunlines in a high noon stand-off waiting to see who blinks first.

People have been asking for reactive options for several editions now. GW finally gave them to us, in a way that actually works.

7. I killed the 4 units you deployed on turn one by seizing the initiative, thanks for failing all those armor saves / moral checks, do you want to play again?

Learn to deploy more strategically? Or use more terrain... which has been the answer to 99% of the 'going first = autowin' complaints over the last 20 years.

8. Eldar runes FTW. Psychic hoods, why bother everyone's got one, take Eldrad and see your enemy Psyker cringe. Except you bugs you're screwed, no one wants to be your friend.

I'm not even entirely sure just what you're complaining about with this one...

9. Random charge length - Again, too much like Fantasy.

Again, being used in Fantasy doesn't make it a bad rule. It's a trade-off for being able to pre-measure distances between units.

10. You moved your lascannon guy.....No I didn't......Yes you did.......ad nauseum

As with your WYSIWYG complaint, I'm not seeing the problem. Either you moved the model, or you didn't. End of argument.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/07 22:27:41


   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Boston, MA

Have you actually played? I just played my first game today and only a single one of your issues came up during a single shooting phase where an Ork nob was the closest target so he had to take a ton of shots until he died. That was the only really wonky thing that happened. Almost all of the changes you're bitching about are positive ones for the game. Some, like random charge length, are a wildcard, but you'll charge 12" as often as you'll charge 2" so whatever. The average roll is still 7" on 2D6 and considering how often I've charged into terrain in 5th it's once again a complete non-issue.

   
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Infiltrating Prowler



Chico, CA

I played 3 games so far, while I won't buy any stuff from GW (Mantic make nice cheep models and converting is fun), I will be playing 40K again. 6th is a fun time, 5th was boring. It not like people play GW games becouse there balanced.

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Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Boston, MA

Noir wrote:I played 3 games so far, while I won't buy any stuff from GW (Mantic make nice cheep models and converting is fun), I will be playing 40K again. 6th is a fun time, 5th was boring. It not like people play GW games becouse there balanced.

I wish GW games were a bit more balanced, but I've found that armies are all generally pretty balanced against each other. If one guy goes with a netlisted to hell maximum efficiency list he'll usually beat any fluffy bunny player, but the game is mostly pretty well balanced. It is, however, a great beer and pretzels game and not really built for tournament play. I don't know where this discussion comes into this topic, but that's how I feel about it.

   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon





Gillette Wyoming

Only real complaint is the random charge length, you can be three inches away and if you roll poorly you will fail the charge, have overwatch fire, and another turn of firing on your unit. I saw the weird steps an ork player took to make sure he charged in guaranteed(move 2 inches away and open fire). Honestly we may have been doing it wrong, but we've been treating heavy movement like before as to whether or not that person moved(if the squad shifted he moved) but the local area also has no tourneys.


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The Last Chancer Who Survived





Boston, MA

Wardragoon wrote:Only real complaint is the random charge length, you can be three inches away and if you roll poorly you will fail the charge, have overwatch fire, and another turn of firing on your unit. I saw the weird steps an ork player took to make sure he charged in guaranteed(move 2 inches away and open fire). Honestly we may have been doing it wrong, but we've been treating heavy movement like before as to whether or not that person moved(if the squad shifted he moved) but the local area also has no tourneys.

A model that does not move counts as stationary, even if the rest of his squad moves. I like this change a lot, it makes a ton of sense, and I have absolutely no clue why the OP is bitching about it. If the guy your playing with is the sort of guy who would insist something didn't move when it did, he's an ass and not worth your time anyway. They'll always find ways to cheat.

   
 
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