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Dakka Veteran





The rulebook and the FAQs are leaving me a bit confused for certain units as to what qualifies as a "Character" per the rules.

The reference pages in the back of the book clearly define certain models as "Characters". Also, we are told in the main rulebook that all Independent Characters are Characters (I'm pretty sure I'm correct on that?)

However, I'm confused as to where that leaves certain "Upgrade" characters that aren't specified either in the Codex FAQs or the references in the back of the book. Are these units not characters?

For example, none of the "Named" Ork characters are mentioned. These are "Upgrade" characters, but they aren't Independent Characters. They act as Sergeants.

Boss Snikrot
Boss Zagstruk

Also Tyranids. The Trygon isn't a character, but the Trygon Prime is an upgrade to the Trygon. Does the Trygon Prime count as a character? What about stand-alone named Tyranid units that are not Independent Characters, such as Doom and Deathleaper?

On page 63, the rulebook says, "They have their own profile, but do not have a separate entry. They are effectively just another trooper in their unit with enhanced characteristics". This line seems to indicate that any unit choice that has an enhanced version qualifies as a character? Is that meant as a "Definition" of a Character, and we should treat any unit that meets this description as one, or is that just a loose description, and the definitive source is the reference guide and/or codex and FAQs?

Am I missing something in the rulebook or elsewhere, or are these units (which feel like they should be counted as characters) simply NOT characters as far as the rules are concerned?
   
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USA: Blacksburg, VA

I've been confused on this one as well. If I have a full unit of varying wargear nobs with a painboy, are each of those nobs a "character" (some will have a different profile since some have heavy armor and some don't) or is it just the painboy?

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Waaagh! Warbiker






Ref page 413... it tells you which "Model Types" are ork characters. Same page, second column tells you which "Model Types" are Tyranid characters.

Nobz models are characters
Trygon models are NOT charcters. (Broodlords, Hive Tyrants and Tervigon's are all Tyranids get)

Characters pg 63 tells you most charcters are fielded in units from the start of the game and represent squad leaders, such as Space Marine Vet sergent....

Both of the Ork unit upgrade models noted above are Nobz Upgrade Models and are leaders of their units have their own profies and rules and are characters for the units.

Cheers,

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/07/12 20:05:36


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Dakka Veteran





That's the way I'm reading it as well. It just seems a tad counter-intuitive. I would have thought that all "Unique" models were automatically characters, regardless of whether or not they had the Independent Character rule or not.

The distinction is extremely important when trying to figure out who can issue or accept challenges and whether or not attacks are made with Precision Shots or not. Perhaps they thought that these two abilities were too powerful to grant across the board to all unique characters regardless of whether or not they were Independent Characters or not.

Trygon Prime is a bit more of an enigma though. It's an "upgrade" to the Trygon, but it's not unique either. I suppose it's like upgrading a Dreadnaught to "Venerable".
   
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Tough Tyrant Guard





Any model that is a special character (is Unique) and is deployed as a unit of 1 counts as a character. It is why Uniques are not listed in the back of the BRB.

PG110 of the rule book. Its the section where they explain that Mephiston is a charater even though he is not an IC or unit upgrade.

That means the Nids have the ones in the back of the book, our ICs (Primes and Parisite) and our special char. (Doom, Deathleaper and Old One Eye). Swarmlord gets it from being both a Hive Tyrant as he is is nieter an IC or deploied as a unit of one.
   
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Gloomfang, the section you're referring to is page 63. Here's a basic summary...

"Most characters ... represent squad leaders."
"They have their own profile, but do not have a separate entry. They are effectively just another trooper in their unit..."
"Other characters, such as Mephiston ... fight as units on their own"
"Regardless of their potency, all follow the rules for characters."

Now, this paragraph sounds like two different things to me. It sounds mostly like just a summary of what a character is. It really isn't phrased overall as a RULE on how to figure out what unit from your codex is or isn't a character. On the other hand, I've picked out a couple phrases that SOUND sort of like rules for determining who a character is.

My problem is that this paragraph doesn't really jive with the table at the back of the book. If everything that has "their own profile but do not have a separate entry" counts as a character... look at the Space Wolves codex.

Fenrisian Wolf and Cyberwolf are the same entry, but have different profiles. The reference of the BRB says both are NOT characters. The same is true of Swiftclaw Biker and Swiftclaw Attack Bike. The Attack Bike is an upgraded Swiftclaw bike, and has its own profile, but it isn't a character. Why does the reference guide mention BOTH the Swiftclaw Bike and the Attack Swiftclaw Bike, but doesn't mention BOTH the Trygon and the Trygon Prime?

For Orks, Nobz are upgrades of Boyz. They are clearly noted in the BRB as being characters, AND they fit the description above. The same is true for Long Fangs and Squad Leaders. They fit the description, but they're also in the reference section of the BRB.

Snikrot fits the description, but he's not in the back of the book. Mephiston is specifically mentioned in the description, but he's not referenced either, no named characters are. I'm puzzled. Other than what is specifically in the table, I'm not sure what's a character.
   
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[ADMIN]
President of the Mat Ward Fan Club






Los Angeles, CA


If you look on page 110 you'll see the box out for special characters, which basically explains what special characters are in the game.

Given that there is no summary stats for special characters in the back of the rulebook I think we can safely assume that all special characters are characters in game terms...if for no other reason that they're called special CHARACTERS.




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Agreed. I also just think I figured out a way to determine this by the rules rather than just by assumption.

The Special Character section that Yakface referenced specifically says that Special Characters get to roll Warlord stats... which they wouldn't be able to if they didn't automatically count as Characters.

So I think that might answer the question for all named characters that don't show up in the reference guide like Boss Snikrot etc.

However, my Tyranid player friend and I are still confused about Trygon Prime. It's not specified in the codex as a unique character as far as I can tell. It's just a Trygon upgrade. Does it count as a Character?
   
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Murrdox wrote:Agreed. I also just think I figured out a way to determine this by the rules rather than just by assumption.

The Special Character section that Yakface referenced specifically says that Special Characters get to roll Warlord stats... which they wouldn't be able to if they didn't automatically count as Characters.

So I think that might answer the question for all named characters that don't show up in the reference guide like Boss Snikrot etc.

However, my Tyranid player friend and I are still confused about Trygon Prime. It's not specified in the codex as a unique character as far as I can tell. It's just a Trygon upgrade. Does it count as a Character?


Trygon Primes really should be in the summary because they are a different profile than regular Trygons. But I think until GW makes some sort of note in the FAQ you have to assume the Trygon listing in the summary applies to both IMHO, even though the Prime probably should be a character.


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yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
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Murrdox wrote:Agreed. I also just think I figured out a way to determine this by the rules rather than just by assumption.

The Special Character section that Yakface referenced specifically says that Special Characters get to roll Warlord stats... which they wouldn't be able to if they didn't automatically count as Characters.

So I think that might answer the question for all named characters that don't show up in the reference guide like Boss Snikrot etc.

However, my Tyranid player friend and I are still confused about Trygon Prime. It's not specified in the codex as a unique character as far as I can tell. It's just a Trygon upgrade. Does it count as a Character?


Shouldn't be. It's still a trygon afterall, and those are not characters. Nor does the rulebook have trygon prime listed separately from trygon, so it wouldn't be considered one.
   
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Been Around the Block





Although the trygon prime doesn't have a special entry in the back of the BRB, it does in the Codex:Tyranids. Since units that have a separate profile but not a separate entry are characters, the trygon prime would be a character. I think this conflict would fall under the advanced rules part and as per pg 7, codex trumps BRB.

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I take those 2 as Characters both because they are names characters as yakface said, also because they are effectively upgraded Nobz, which are characters already.

Also the wording is that you can pay points to have Snikrot/Zagstruk/Capn Badruck lead the unit and I'm willing to count any actual leader of a unit as a character.

I wouldn't count the Trygon Prime as a character, and it isn't a conflict between codex and rulebook, the rulebook just doesn't say if it is or isn't a character.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/13 02:14:11


6th edition matches 42/5/1

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The ork FAQ also explicitly mentions Zagstrukk, Badruk and Snikrot as Special Characters.

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If the Trygon prime has its own statline in the codex (even if it is the same as a regular Trygon) then I would allow it as a character like a Trygon seargent.
   
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Jidmah wrote:The ork FAQ also explicitly mentions Zagstrukk, Badruk and Snikrot as Special Characters.


Not that I doubt you (and I think after re-reading the rules that Named characters do count as "Characters") but I read through the FAQ and I'm not seeing that explicitly stated. There are several entries that mention the Ork special characters, but I don't see an entry that says anything like "Boss Zagstruk is a special character". What entry in the FAQ do you mean?
   
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The one asking about Special Characters being added to the full unit. While not naming them, this can only refer to those three.

 NurglesTurtle wrote:
If you don't enjoy playing against people with unpainted armies, break into their house when they sleep, paint their figures for them, help yourself to their cheerios and then your problems will be solved.


Freebooter raids on the Tau planet had been previously repulsed by a huge alien warship that stalked the space lanes around Vor’sanar, annihilating anything that trespassed on the Tau Empire. The Tau called it the Korst’la, the Orks called it Da Big Dakkaship.
 
   
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Tactica wrote:Trygon models are NOT charcters. (Broodlords, Hive Tyrants and Tervigon's are all Tyranids get)

The nid ref is incomplete however since there is no classification, of any kind, for the "tyranid prime".


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HoverBoy wrote:
Tactica wrote:Trygon models are NOT charcters. (Broodlords, Hive Tyrants and Tervigon's are all Tyranids get)

The nid ref is incomplete however since there is no classification, of any kind, for the "tyranid prime".

It's an Independent Character. So use those rules.

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USA: Blacksburg, VA

Tactica wrote:Ref page 413... it tells you which "Model Types" are ork characters. Same page, second column tells you which "Model Types" are Tyranid characters.

Nobz models are characters


So I guess that means a Nobz unit can Lo,S all the live long day! Works for me.

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Sencho wrote:
Tactica wrote:Ref page 413... it tells you which "Model Types" are ork characters. Same page, second column tells you which "Model Types" are Tyranid characters.

Nobz models are characters


So I guess that means a Nobz unit can Lo,S all the live long day! Works for me.


Yup but only a 4+.


Nosebiter wrote:
Codex Space Marine is renamed as Codex Counts As Because I Dont Like To Loose And Gw Hates My Army.
 
   
 
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