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Made in us
Grovelin' Grot




Colorado

Ok so for those of you who have seen me ranting about Ork nerfs in 6th edition. I think my base problem is the army I have been facing which leads to this thread.
My friend's Tau list (non-allies) usually looks something like this:
Spoiler:

HQ: Commander Shas'el
1 Commander Shas'el = (Hard-wired Blacksun Filter + Hard-wired Multi-tracker + Missile Pod + Plasma Rifle + Vectored Retro-thrusters)

Elite: Crisis Battlesuit
1 Crisis Battlesuit = (Fusion Blaster + Hard-wired Blacksun Filter + Hard-wired Multi-tracker + Missile Pod + Targeting Array + Team Leader)
2 Shield Drone
2 Crisis Battlesuit = (Missile Pod + Plasma Rifle + Multi-Tracker)

Elite: Crisis Battlesuit
1 Crisis Battlesuit = (Fusion Blaster + Hard-wired Blacksun Filter + Hard-wired Multi-tracker + Missile Pod + Targeting Array + Team Leader )
2 Shield Drone
2 Crisis Battlesuit = (base cost + Missile Pod + Plasma Rifle + Multi-Tracker )

Elite: Stealthsuits
5 Stealthsuits = (Targeting Array)
1 Stealthsuit Shas'vre, = (Targeting Array + Hard-wired Blacksun Filter + Hard-wired Multi-tracker + Markerlight + Shas'vre Upgrade )
1 Shield Drone

Troops: Fire Warrior
11 Fire Warrior
1 Shas'ui, = (Markerlight + Hard-wired Blacksun Filter + Hard-wired Multi-tracker)

Troops: Fire Warrior
11 Fire Warrior
1 Shas'ui (base cost + Markerlight + Hard-wired Blacksun Filter + Hard-wired Multi-tracker)

Troops: Fire Warrior
11 Fire Warrior
1 Shas'ui (Markerlight + Hard-wired Blacksun Filter + Hard-wired Multi-tracker)

Troops: Fire Warrior
11 Fire Warrior
1 Shas'ui (Markerlight + Hard-wired Blacksun Filter + Hard-wired Multi-tracker)

Heavy Support: Broadside Battlesuit
1 Broadside Battlesuit
1 Broadside Battlesuit (Blacksun Filter)
2 Shield Drone


Heavy Support: Broadside Battlesuit
1 Broadside Battlesuit
1 Broadside Battlesuit (Blacksun Filter )
2 Shield Drone

Heavy Support: Hammerhead Gunship
1 Hammerhead Gunship (Railgun + Two Burst Cannons + Multi-Tracker) + Blacksun Filter + Sensor Spines)

1 Aegis Defense Line


I am not going to post my exact army lists but I have tried the following army type against him:
every one of my lists includes 1-2 10-15 man loota squads depending on available points and a big mek with a KFF
foot sloggas - 200+ models on the TT
mech heavy - 4 trukks, 2 BWs, koptas
nob bikers - 2 squads of nob bikers and 3 squads of big gunz

Basically, this is how the turns go:
Markerlights used every turn to reduce cover saves and boost ballistic skill.(So to hit is 2+ and basic cover saves are 6+)
Tau destroys any big armor vehicles I have (BWs if I have them) with rail guns (usually in the first turn).
Any more rail guns remaining drop 5" templates on troops or big gunz squads.
If I have MANZ, he focuses those with rail guns/plasma rifles once my armor is dead.
Missile pods destroy light armor or shoot at closest squads.

By turn 3, I am foot slogging my way across the table and the hail of fire reduces my front lines enough to reduce my forwards momentum to about 2-3" per turn (4"-5" if I run). i have only managed to get into close combat a few times so far in 6th.

Suggestions?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/07/19 17:06:19


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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine






Boulder, CO

Do marklights affect the KFF?
Looks like your "Mech Heavy" list is a little light on the "heavy"
Try switching that around.
So, KFF + 4 BW + Nobz Mobz, + Boyz + Fliers and a small Nob biker deathstar w/ Biker Boss?
   
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Screamin' Stormboy





UrgThraka wrote:Suggestions?

Use more terrain. The only thing that destroyed my BW on 1st turn these last 4 years were scouting Vendettas and Manticores (which don't need LOS). Heck, even my Trukks usually make it to turn 2-3.

The lack of LOS-blocking terrain is something that you see in tournaments, but when you play at home or in a shop you should have enough terrain to cover 25% of the board (and imo, half of it should be LOS-blocking).

Btw, Markerlights only have a 36" range and are heavy weapons, so your Lootas should be able to destroy them quickly while staying safe. Koptas can also bring death upon them really fast.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/07/19 16:42:05


Deffskullz desert scavengers 
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre





Richmond, VA

Orks are fighting a losing battle vs tau. Their markerlights can remove all your cover, not just one point, and they will be getting BS 5 all the time when used properly.

All you need to do is bring the fight to him, the problem is you have to get there. Your vehicles will die, fast, so make the most of their speed. Beyond that, bikers are perfect for killing tau, go in hard and fast. Don't try to mech that hard vs tau, unless you overmech.

Also remove the points costs, you can't post those on the forums.

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Canada

This looks like a fairly uphill fight for you.
Depending on the type of terrain you have you should try to block LOS as much as possible. Try taking a big mob of nob bikers to draw as much fire as they can, with cybork and painboy to soak up as many shots as possible. Then have a wave behind them with as many boyz as possible. If you can keep him from shooting at the boyz for long enough then they should survive long enough to get to grips with him.
If you can spread out a bit it should negate the single blast weapon in his army. And he only has markelights in the fire-warriors and the one on the stealth suits, so he has to shoot all five squads at the same target (and hit every time), then use them all on one suit team's round of firing. So if you make him scared enough about the bikers that's most of his army not shooting at the boyz.

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Painting Within the Lines




juraigamer wrote:Orks are fighting a losing battle vs tau. Their markerlights can remove all your cover, not just one point, and they will be getting BS 5 all the time when used properly.

All you need to do is bring the fight to him, the problem is you have to get there. Your vehicles will die, fast, so make the most of their speed. Beyond that, bikers are perfect for killing tau, go in hard and fast. Don't try to mech that hard vs tau, unless you overmech.

Also remove the points costs, you can't post those on the forums.


He can't post the individual points cost, but he can for the units.

The best plan is dakkajets, tau have a tough time against them due to the lack of skyfire weapons.
Target the suits and shred them, you can take 6 Dakkajets at 2000p+ if you don't take any other FA. Works a charm
   
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Grovelin' Grot




Colorado

I removed all the point costs... they were irrelevant anyway.
In the games that I have played a dakkajet, it was killed fairly quickly via massed small weapons fire or twin-linked rail guns.

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UrgThraka wrote:Any more rail guns remaining drop 5" templates on troops or big gunz squads.
If I have MANZ, he focuses those with rail guns/plasma rifles once my armor is dead.
Missile pods destroy light armor or shoot at closest squads.

I hope he is not useing 5" templates with the railguns on broadsides. They do not have subammo 5" templates shots. Only hammerheads can do that.
   
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Richmond, VA

Yea with all that str 5 weaponry, fliers aren't home free when dealing with tau. Twin linked railguns tend to down one each time they actually hit, and seeker missiles, well, those hurt too.

Desert Hunters of Vior'la The Purge Iron Hands Adepts of Pestilence Tallaran Desert Raiders
Lt. Coldfire wrote:Seems to me that you should be refereeing and handing out red cards--like a boss.

 Peregrine wrote:
SCREEE I'M A SEAGULL SCREE SCREEEE!!!!!
 
   
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Painting Within the Lines




UrgThraka wrote:I removed all the point costs... they were irrelevant anyway.
In the games that I have played a dakkajet, it was killed fairly quickly via massed small weapons fire or twin-linked rail guns.


The key is a dakkajet, they're best en-masse. Proxy 6 and see how your game goes
Run with extra supa shoota everytime.

Assuming a waaagh and the luck that all 6 come out at the same time that's 108 BS3 TL shots at Str 6 AP 4. Dead crisis suits


Automatically Appended Next Post:
juraigamer wrote:Yea with all that str 5 weaponry, fliers aren't home free when dealing with tau. Twin linked railguns tend to down one each time they actually hit, and seeker missiles, well, those hurt too.


TL rail gun doesn't hit everytime, far from it.
1/6 chance with each shot and with re-roll (Assuming two shots) it's a 33% chance of a hit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/19 18:11:32


 
   
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Chicago

Pottsey wrote:
UrgThraka wrote:Any more rail guns remaining drop 5" templates on troops or big gunz squads.
If I have MANZ, he focuses those with rail guns/plasma rifles once my armor is dead.
Missile pods destroy light armor or shoot at closest squads.

I hope he is not useing 5" templates with the railguns on broadsides. They do not have subammo 5" templates shots. Only hammerheads can do that.



Yeah thats the impression that I got from that as well. Only hammerheads have a sub-munitions option.

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Fireknife Shas'el




All over the U.S.

You might want to keep an eye on how your opponent is using the markerlights in that build.

The markerlights that the team leaders can take are NOT networked. This means that the firing unit cannot benefit from the shas'ui markerlight.

In the past this was no problem because we had target locks, but until the tau get them faq'ed back into existence or basic markerlights get faqed to help the same unit that fires them this is a nono.
This is because the target locks allowed the rest of the unit to fire at a different target than the markerlights, they can't do that now.

I know that I am helping the enemy here but try running a screen of your bikers in front of the rest of your army. make sure to Turbo-boost them. Then if you have a trick for having somehtin show up reliably from reserve via Outflank or deepstrike then do so. This puts too much pressure on the Tau too early in the game. If you get the movement right you can pin them to prevent the running away.

Remember, anything that you can do to keep the game on the 4' width of the table is to your advantage. If you let a Tau player turn the game onto the 6' length of the tabl, it will be a tough game for almost any army.

Hope this helps

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/07/25 23:15:17


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Longtime Dakkanaut





New Zealand

You definitely can't outshoot Tau. Getting into close combat is the only way you'll beat them.

Some ork players would go pure horde against Tau, depriving the Tau of any juicy targets while overwhelming with numbers (i.e. you'll die horribly for the first few turns, then the tau will die even more horribly during later turns. Some would advocate suicide trukk spam to at least move a pile of orks closer faster (while the others run behind), but that's still quite a few points to throw away on trukks that will probably only last one turn...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/19 20:02:42


 
   
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Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk




Raleigh, NC

well, a halfway decent idea might be a kopta wall
I am purely making this up right now, but it sounds like a neat idea.
2 squads of 5 koptas spread across the front line (tl-rokkits) and a trukk with kff big mek and Nobz in it behind them to get cover and give 4+.

nob biker squad w/warboss, bw full of 20 boyz and a deff rolla

Add 2 dakkajets with the xtra supa shoota

Anything else put in min squads of commandos to tie up his units and grots to hold objectives

I would be interested to hear if that works

not sure what the points would be I think its under.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Trying to fight tau with lootas sounds silly to me, don't fight the best shooty army with shooty things.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/07/19 19:59:54


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Grovelin' Grot




Colorado

I just wanted to answer a few things mentioned:
1. He never used the sub munitions on his broadsides.
2. He uses the markerlights the correct way, firing from one squad and using them with another. Most of the time he uses them on a BW and then uses them with the broadside squads.

Part of my issue is that I have played 100's a games against him at this point and he knows exactly what needs to die with whatever I field. I also know exactly what needs to die in his army but it is SO far away.

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UrgThraka wrote:I just wanted to answer a few things mentioned:
1. He never used the sub munitions on his broadsides.
2. He uses the markerlights the correct way, firing from one squad and using them with another. Most of the time he uses them on a BW and then uses them with the broadside squads.

Part of my issue is that I have played 100's a games against him at this point and he knows exactly what needs to die with whatever I field. I also know exactly what needs to die in his army but it is SO far away.


Actually that is the part that is confusing a little about the Markerlights. He is either wasting a lot of shots against poor targets, miss using markerlights or losing markerlight tokens. In 6th Tau lost the ability to fire the Markerlights at a different target than the squad is shooting at.

Still hell of a gun line hiding behind that defense line. Don't try and table him, unless the that is the mission. Go for objective wins. going to need to play with your opponents list, as Tau are normally troubled by horde lists like Orks.
   
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Human Auxiliary to the Empire




Dartmouth, NS

UrgThraka wrote:I just wanted to answer a few things mentioned:
1. He never used the sub munitions on his broadsides.
2. He uses the markerlights the correct way, firing from one squad and using them with another. Most of the time he uses them on a BW and then uses them with the broadside squads.

Part of my issue is that I have played 100's a games against him at this point and he knows exactly what needs to die with whatever I field. I also know exactly what needs to die in his army but it is SO far away.


1. He can't use the submunition on broadsides. Only hammerheads get that.

Deepstrike. Strom Boyz and Zagstruk aught to throw him for a loop. Da Vulcha Boyz deepstrike then charge in.


One other thing you may want to consider, might throw him for a loop, take some IG allies. Counter Shooty with Shooty.

Also, battlewagons with lootas and meks. I usually go with 12 Lootas and 3 meks per wagon. Unless he's really lucky his rail guns won't do enough pens to vegetable a battlewagon and the meks can repair it and restore hull points on your turn while the lootas launch out D3 S7 shots into his everything.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/24 17:51:23



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Destroying a battlewagon with a railgun has little to do with luck. When a unit of rail-gun broadsides aims at a battlewagon, you can pretty much assume it's dead.

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Freebooter raids on the Tau planet had been previously repulsed by a huge alien warship that stalked the space lanes around Vor’sanar, annihilating anything that trespassed on the Tau Empire. The Tau called it the Korst’la, the Orks called it Da Big Dakkaship.
 
   
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Yeah it definitely sounds like he's still using the Target Lock rules of being able to shoot his markerlight at anything he wants while his FW kill all your Boyz. Smack him next time he tries to do that until Tau either gets a new Codex or a better FAQ. Also i dont know spit about orks but you NEED to get into CC with his FW which i figure means jump troops?!? maybe even deepstrike them in right in front of his Aegis, they might die when they show up but not until after you might kill a couple things with sluggas. not only does it present a huge threat if they survive but it forces your enemy to shoot them down immediately or face CC wrath lol


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This is where I agree with taking Zaggstruk and dropping into assault. Id suggest taking out his broadsides, as those seem to be punching holes in your wagons. Also I sorta agree with the guy that suggest some koptas, but I would leave the rokkits home on them. TL bigshootas on koptas will pulverize Tau, I stick a unit of 5 w/buzzsaw along with my biker boss and they mow down Space Marines with their shooting, so squishy Tau would be much easier. So try and mate a biker boss/koptas with a Zaggy deepstrike and see how he handles that. Those 2 units should give you enough of a distraction to the rest of your army where you need. Because really, against Tau, you just need to get into assault and mop up.

Id strongly suggest leaving the trukks at home unless you plan on using a couple for Manz missiles or nob bombs. Good luck on whatever you do, because your buddies list is incredible


 
   
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I agree with the zaggy idea. a mob of 20 stormboyz with him using the swoop attack and his klaws (S9 AP2 I4!) hurts pretty much everything (including vehicles with the new +1 to the vehicle damage table)!
Also, bikers. lots and lots of bikers. they obliterate tau.
Actually, just use lots of fast things like bommers. Burna bommers are awesome at killing fire warriors as they wound on 2+ no armour/cover saves!
If your not doing 2000pts+ try wazdakka so you can use bikers as troops!

Whatever you do good luck!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/30 20:50:38



I can see it now....Nids are now a collection of autonomous hive fleets there are multiple Hive Minds and they all war with one another in addition to everyone else. They speak to humans using telepathy, and they can now ally with Space Wolves as battle brothers, because reasons.

Tyranids talking to humans would be like you talking to your mashed potatoes or the probiotic in your kiefer drink. It is neither possible nor productive.
 
   
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just get in combat asap and stay out of line of sight

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you may have luck deep striking stormboys with zagstruck. use them as a T2/T3 alpha strike to shift focus to closer threats. can have a full squad and zag (21 models) for 325, think 229 gets you a dozen and zag.

just a thought. I use them vs. eldar sometimes for same purpose


just saw the same advice I gave from others. woops!



could try bringing a kopter or 2 and attach biker boss to outflank, gives another variable your opponent as well

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/21 18:33:01


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skyfi wrote:
you may have luck deep striking stormboys with zagstruck. use them as a T2/T3 alpha strike to shift focus to closer threats. can have a full squad and zag (21 models) for 325, think 229 gets you a dozen and zag.

just a thought. I use them vs. eldar sometimes for same purpose


just saw the same advice I gave from others. woops!



could try bringing a kopter or 2 and attach biker boss to outflank, gives another variable your opponent as well

21 models? I thought it was 5-20 models....


I can see it now....Nids are now a collection of autonomous hive fleets there are multiple Hive Minds and they all war with one another in addition to everyone else. They speak to humans using telepathy, and they can now ally with Space Wolves as battle brothers, because reasons.

Tyranids talking to humans would be like you talking to your mashed potatoes or the probiotic in your kiefer drink. It is neither possible nor productive.
 
   
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zagstruk doesn't replace a boy/nob so you can take 20 boys + zag or 19 boys + nob


right?

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Northern MN

bikers and coptas... fill out the fast attack slots. Vehicles will die to his reailguns, but maybe x2 groups of 5 nobz, with a warboss on a bike. It will get expensive, but less of a problem for an ork horde to fill out.

The point is to not have single would models be your rush across the field... that includes vehicles as broadsides "basicly" treat most vehicles as single wound models.

also you should be able to put up more cover for your advance, and bikers will get a jink save at least out in the open.

As you've seen flyers aren't really much of a problem for tau with TwL and massed str 5. But could become viable IF you have enough threats close enough for him to not focus on them.

warboss + bike = min 100 pts
x5 nobs + bikes, x1 painboy(as troops) = min 255
x5 nobs + bikes, x1 painboy(as FA) = min 255
coptas x5 = min 175
coptas x5 = min 175

min total = 960

You may be tempted to take weapon upgrades in there, like PKs, but remember your against tau and really don't need them

RAWRR! 
   
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skyfi wrote:
zagstruk doesn't replace a boy/nob so you can take 20 boys + zag or 19 boys + nob


right?

Wrong. You take Zagstrukk instead of a nob. He is better than a nob anyways.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/28 10:36:26


 NurglesTurtle wrote:
If you don't enjoy playing against people with unpainted armies, break into their house when they sleep, paint their figures for them, help yourself to their cheerios and then your problems will be solved.


Freebooter raids on the Tau planet had been previously repulsed by a huge alien warship that stalked the space lanes around Vor’sanar, annihilating anything that trespassed on the Tau Empire. The Tau called it the Korst’la, the Orks called it Da Big Dakkaship.
 
   
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 Jidmah wrote:
skyfi wrote:
zagstruk doesn't replace a boy/nob so you can take 20 boys + zag or 19 boys + nob


right?

Wrong. You take Zagstrukk instead of a nob. He is better than a nob anyways.


are you positive? DId a FAQ address this? RAW I didn't think so. it says... "instead of a nob mob may be lead by zagstruck" while nob entry is "one boy may be upgraded to a nob"

I was under impression zag replaced the boy too, until someone pointed that out to me. of course at work now w/ no codex


Automatically Appended Next Post:
more or less I thought the same situation came up with snikrot and kommandos? ie. could have 15 kommandos and snikrot, or 14 and a nob? Thought it came down to wording or something. I'm no rules lawyer!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/27 14:58:57


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Not that I recommend trying it but am I the only one who thinks orks could out shoot Tau.
This sort of question probably needs a pub and beer to help matters.
   
 
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