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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




nowhere: north of colorado, south of motana, west of nebraska, east of utah.




Deep within the jungles of Lustria exists an ancient and legendary monster who seeks only blood and the fury of battle. it has been described as the howling savior of nature, sent by Sotek to destroy all who oppose his people. in local tongue he is Korxamundi, Sotek's rampager, a name overshadowed only by that of the mighty Thunder Lizard


Rare Choice:
Sotek's Rampager Points cost: 350
M WS BS S T W I A ld
6 4 0 7 6 5 4 4 7
Unit size: 1 (unique)
Troop type: Monster
Special rules:
Cold blooded, +3 Scaly skin, Terror, Large Target, Multiple wounds (D3),
Impact hits (D6), Swift Stride, Frenzy
**Sotek's Rampager must always enter a battle from reserves**

Chomp!:
Once per game, during close combat in exchange for his normal attacks, the Rampager can use a breath weapon attack that represents it lunging forward and scooping up anyone unfortunate in its path. Place the teardrop template with the narrow end touching its base and angle it anywhere in it's front arc. Any units hit who do not have the Large Target special rule suffer one automatic wound with no armor saves allowed. If more than 4 models are killed in this way, the Rampager's initiative is reduced by 2 for the rest of the game to represent being sluggish from eating so much.


optional Paired magic item:
Call of the Rampager 50 points
one use only
Allows a "Sotek's Rampager" model (already in the army list and in reserves) to automatically enter the battlefield from reserves on the table edge closest to the user of the item. can only be used after turn 1.

i plan to run this guy in a private campaign, and in an attempt to be fair, i want to see what veteran players think would make this beast more fair towards other players. so if you have some constructive criticism, please post.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2012/08/26 00:56:28


blood angels: 3500+? (no codex)
necrons: 2900+
tau: 1500+  
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw






It does look a little excessive, but I'll spreadsheet it in comparison to other monsters to see if the damage output is too great for its points cost.

Edit: I would remove the Killing Blow or Multiple Wounds special rule. The creature is s8 so it ignores all regular armor and is immediately going against ward saves. Against a <=WS8, T6 model it will put out 6.66 wounds on the charge. Whatever it hits WILL die so having both KB and MW is redundant.

Other than that in comparison to most other monsters it is not as cost effective against infantry, but makes up for that by being superior against monsters/monstrous inf/cavalry.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/23 19:09:24


Read my story at:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/515293.page#5420356



 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





In some ways it's over the top. It's not S8 it's S10 with GW. And with those D3 and KB no monster can fight it nor many characters. It can kill just about any monster of any point value in the game in 1 or 2 turns max.

The only thing you can do is fight it ranged with war machines and magic. Or tarpit it. As it doesn't have many attacks.

You're going to go eek, seeing it. But then you can just go lol, and throw steadfast fodder at it and watch it sit there.

I think if you're making something like this, don't just make a bigger Carnisaur. Actually give it some special rules. That's not something I usually say to people in this subforum, as they often have 1 new special rule for every other line. But if it's a campaign and it's a big deal, it's a bit of a letdown if you fought a super slann who's the greatest ever, but all his has is +1W and 1 better ward.

He's close to the Arachnarok spider. Take a look at that. Like the Beastmen swallow hole ability from whatever that silly monster is. Or bite in half.

As for fluffery. I don't think anyone would call it a daemon of nature sent by Sotek. No lizardman is going to refer to anything as a daemon except an actual daemon. And they wouldn't use it on something they like. And no one outside of the Lizardmen probably know anything about Sotek because they aren't chatting it up with the Lizardmen talking about their various deities and Old Ones religions. So, outsiders could call it a daemon of nature (though still odd since that means something, a daemon isn't an adjective, it's a noun in WHFB). Like a dwarf of nature sounds weird. /fluff

   
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw






Is it intended to be s10 instead of having the GW already included in the profile? That's broken. Anything over s8 without magic buffs is excessive. t8 is supposed to be incredibly hard to wound.

Read my story at:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/515293.page#5420356



 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




nowhere: north of colorado, south of motana, west of nebraska, east of utah.

i appreciate the constructive criticism guys! if you couldn't already tell, i'm quite a noob at WFB so i was wanting to make sure i had it right.

i wasn't sure if S8 would ignore armor or not, so i added the great weapons on for good measure. (i honestly had no clue that GW added +2 strength, i was just going for Strength 8)

if i got rid of killing blow and great weapons, should i bump up the Impact hits to D6?

blood angels: 3500+? (no codex)
necrons: 2900+
tau: 1500+  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Well, avoiding armor and mega strength are 2 different things. You can have a 1S attack that ignores armor saves. Since 1+ armor is the best you can get, and for every Str above 3 you reduce the save by 1, you can see where it goes from there. But high Str also increases your chance to wound vs. Toughness. And Toughness is all some monsters have, really. At Str8-10, and they are pretty much synonymous since they are so high, pretty much every unit in the entire game will be wounded on a 2+. Only a couple have a T of 7 or higher.

Impact hits are just on the charge. I'd say keep KB, lose D3 and GW and Str8, and give it some color.

BIG CHOMPY ATTACK. Once per game the Rampager can use a breath weapon attack that represents it lunging forward and scooping up anyone unfortunate in its path. Place the teardrop template with the narrow end touching its base and angle it anywhere in it's front arc. Any units hit who do not have the Large Target special rule suffer one automatic wound with no armor saves allowed. If more than 4 wounds are inflicted in this way, the Rampager's initiative is reduced by 2 for the rest of the game to represent being sluggish from eating so much. This can be used in close combat.

   
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nowhere: north of colorado, south of motana, west of nebraska, east of utah.

DukeRustfield wrote:
Well, avoiding armor and mega strength are 2 different things. You can have a 1S attack that ignores armor saves. Since 1+ armor is the best you can get, and for every Str above 3 you reduce the save by 1, you can see where it goes from there. But high Str also increases your chance to wound vs. Toughness. And Toughness is all some monsters have, really. At Str8-10, and they are pretty much synonymous since they are so high, pretty much every unit in the entire game will be wounded on a 2+. Only a couple have a T of 7 or higher.

Impact hits are just on the charge. I'd say keep KB, lose D3 and GW and Str8, and give it some color.

BIG CHOMPY ATTACK. Once per game the Rampager can use a breath weapon attack that represents it lunging forward and scooping up anyone unfortunate in its path. Place the teardrop template with the narrow end touching its base and angle it anywhere in it's front arc. Any units hit who do not have the Large Target special rule suffer one automatic wound with no armor saves allowed. If more than 4 wounds are inflicted in this way, the Rampager's initiative is reduced by 2 for the rest of the game to represent being sluggish from eating so much. This can be used in close combat.


i dig da chompy attack, however my argument on impact hits is that i put impact hits in to represent the "rampager" part of his name. (imagine, a massive humanoid T-rex breaking through the forest, smashing into your unit and tearing the remaining soldiers apart, it just makes sense) plus, i have swiftstride backing that up.

and if i don't keep strength 8, what should i replace it with? (btw, i'm open to points changes if need be, as long as it's a max of 400)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/24 04:09:29


blood angels: 3500+? (no codex)
necrons: 2900+
tau: 1500+  
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 antigrav wrote:
i appreciate the constructive criticism guys! if you couldn't already tell, i'm quite a noob at WFB so i was wanting to make sure i had it right.

i wasn't sure if S8 would ignore armor or not, so i added the great weapons on for good measure. (i honestly had no clue that GW added +2 strength, i was just going for Strength 8)

if i got rid of killing blow and great weapons, should i bump up the Impact hits to D6?


As explained earlier having Killing Blow and Multiple Wounds is redundant. I'll break it down for you.

You enter combat with a Chaos Lord who is t4 with a 3+ armor save a 4+ ward save and 3 wounds.

You have 5 attacks. 2.5 attacks on average will hit. 2.08 will wound. Because you are strength 8 you reduce his armor save by -5, which nullifies it, negating the need for KB to ignore armor. 1.04 of those wounds will get past his ward save. Because you have the multiple wounds (d3) special rule, the Chaos Lord will on average lose 2 wounds from a single unsaved wound and can potentially lose all his wounds and die outright.
   
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Scuttling Genestealer




What model is that in the picture

Tyranids 1500

 
   
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Fresh-Faced New User




nowhere: north of colorado, south of motana, west of nebraska, east of utah.

wolftheassassin53 wrote:What model is that in the picture


"Kartikeya" from the game HellDorado (just beautiful from what i have heard, mine's still coming in)

Alraz_ka wrote:

As explained earlier having Killing Blow and Multiple Wounds is redundant. I'll break it down for you.

You enter combat with a Chaos Lord who is t4 with a 3+ armor save a 4+ ward save and 3 wounds.

You have 5 attacks. 2.5 attacks on average will hit. 2.08 will wound. Because you are strength 8 you reduce his armor save by -5, which nullifies it, negating the need for KB to ignore armor. 1.04 of those wounds will get past his ward save. Because you have the multiple wounds (d3) special rule, the Chaos Lord will on average lose 2 wounds from a single unsaved wound and can potentially lose all his wounds and die outright.


ok, well that makes quite some sense (though it was multi-wound (3), not D3, i may just have to change that for fairness sake) and if i add the chomp attack, bump up the points another +45 i think it'll be quite potent and fair at the same time. agreed?

also taking into account the "must enter from reserves" rule, what if i paired it with this?:

Magic item
Call of the Rampager 50 points
allows a Sotek's Rampager model to automatically enter the battlefield from reserves on the table edge closest to the user of the item.
one use only.

EDIT: updated original post with new info. seems pretty fair to me, but i still want ideas if necessary.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/24 15:13:21


blood angels: 3500+? (no codex)
necrons: 2900+
tau: 1500+  
   
Made in us
Fanatic with Madcap Mushrooms






Chino Hills, CA

I think that he should be toned down to S6, I also think he's a bit too expensive.

Maybe 300 and put him down to S6. Also think the multiple wounds rule is unecessary, seeing as he's a monster he's already doing a Stomp on top of his Impact Hits. It's 5 attacks, but in reality it's more like 7-12.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/25 02:44:07


Some people play to win, some people play for fun. Me? I play to kill toy soldiers.
DR:90S++GMB++IPwh40k206#+D++A++/hWD350R+++T(S)DM+

WHFB, AoS, 40k, WM/H, Starship Troopers Miniatures, FoW

 
   
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nowhere: north of colorado, south of motana, west of nebraska, east of utah.

 Cryonicleech wrote:
I think that he should be toned down to S6, I also think he's a bit too expensive.

Maybe 300 and put him down to S6. Also think the multiple wounds rule is unecessary, seeing as he's a monster he's already doing a Stomp on top of his Impact Hits. It's 5 attacks, but in reality it's more like 7-12.


thus is the reason he's so expensive.

blood angels: 3500+? (no codex)
necrons: 2900+
tau: 1500+  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





S8 (10) with auto 3 wounds doesn't exist anywhere in the game. Not even close. There's a WoC lord with Str 8, W8 7 Attacks and 4+ armor--he costs 605 points. This guy would kill like 5-7 ogres a round and make his points back in 2 rounds easily.

Stegadons are more impact hits. Tyranasaurus, despite Jurasic Park, isn't very stompy. It's bipedal and tall. If it stepped on stuff, it could fall over. And because it was so heavy, it could actually kill itself tripping, or at least cause serious injury.

6 is the "monster" generic stat. S, T, W. It's what dragons have. It's what nearly all Large Target 200-300ish point monsters have. Carnisaur is 7 5 5 and costs 210, but it's also just a mount.

If you just want to make a bigger Caurnisaur you can do that. But you could just make Carnisaurs Rares and not rewrite anything.

   
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nowhere: north of colorado, south of motana, west of nebraska, east of utah.

DukeRustfield wrote:
S8 (10) with auto 3 wounds doesn't exist anywhere in the game.


thus is why i made it (though i don't really understand why it's being called str 10, yea it ignores armor, but i removed the great weapons)

DukeRustfield wrote:
Stegadons are more impact hits. Tyranasaurus, despite Jurasic Park, isn't very stompy. It's bipedal and tall. If it stepped on stuff, it could fall over. And because it was so heavy, it could actually kill itself tripping, or at least cause serious injury.

i could definitely see this thing stomping some troops, however if that seems unfair i can just remove thunderstomp from it's available rules. (after all, i do still have the chomp attack)

DukeRustfield wrote:
If you just want to make a bigger Caurnisaur you can do that. But you could just make Carnisaurs Rares and not rewrite anything.

eh, while i did take some ques from the carnisaur, the rest of it is based off the fluff. if i remove thrunderstomp as a possible attack, should i lower the points value at all?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/25 16:15:26


blood angels: 3500+? (no codex)
necrons: 2900+
tau: 1500+  
   
Made in us
Fanatic with Madcap Mushrooms






Chino Hills, CA

Also, why is the idea of the monster "eating" something represented by a template weapon? That gives this thing even more attacks.

Wow, reading even deeper into the rule the damn thing auto hits, auto wounds, and allows for no armor saves?

This thing is easily worth more like, 650 points. MAYBE.

If you want something fair, go for this.



Deep within the jungles of Lustria exists an ancient and legendary monster who seeks only blood and the fury of battle. it has been described as the howling savior of nature, sent by Sotek to destroy all who oppose his people. in local tongue he is Korxamundi, Sotek's rampager, a name overshadowed only by that of the mighty Thunder Lizard


Rare Choice:
Sotek's Rampager Points cost: 450
M WS BS S T W I A ld
6 4 0 6 6 4 2 4 7
Unit size: 1 (unique)
Troop type: Monster
Special rules:
Cold blooded, +3 Scaly skin, Terror, Large Target, Frenzy

Chomp!:
At the beginning of any close combat that Sotek's Rampager is in, he may forfeit all of his normal attacks to make a Chomp attack. This attack follows regular initiative order. When making a Chomp Attack, roll to hit normally. If the Chomp Attack hits, the model targeted takes a Strength 8 hit with the Multiple Wounds (D3) special rule.

Call of the Rampager:

Sotek's Rampager is not deployed on the field regularly. Instead, he must come onto the table from reserves.



With Thunderstomp, He's getting a free D6 attacks that auto hit at the end of combat, he really doesn't need Impact Hits. S6 is perfectly fine for a monster, though it *could* (though rather unecessarily) potentially be bumped up to 7. Initiative 2 makes sense, it's a Cold Blooded monster, after all.

I feel like Chomp makes more sense here now. An auto-hitting auto-wounding template with no armor saves is ridiculous, and is alone probably worth like 50+ points.

Some people play to win, some people play for fun. Me? I play to kill toy soldiers.
DR:90S++GMB++IPwh40k206#+D++A++/hWD350R+++T(S)DM+

WHFB, AoS, 40k, WM/H, Starship Troopers Miniatures, FoW

 
   
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nowhere: north of colorado, south of motana, west of nebraska, east of utah.

Blame dukerustfield for the template on chomp, i'm just taking advice, as for that update, it seems like you're bumping the points up a massive amount and taking away all the benefits! (much like local taxes), i mean, you bumped it another 100 points!

also, Call of the Rampager is a magic item, not a special rule. the "must always enter from reserves" rule was put in place to make it a bit of a gamble that he would even come on the board, which is less of a gamble when you take the call on a character for an additional +50 points.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/08/25 19:16:02


blood angels: 3500+? (no codex)
necrons: 2900+
tau: 1500+  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Carnisaur has S7 so it makes sense it has S7.

Arachnarok has Venom Surge every round. Terrorgheist has his breath weapon scream every round (no armor save, insta hit). Thundertusk has a stone thrower. The Carmine dragon in Tamurkhan does the same thing except D3 wounds in a cannon template, no save. A simple Troll can vomit every round and do a Str5 hit to everyone in b2b with no armor saves insta hit (though they give up normal attacks). Hell, a Salamander is a Str 3 -3 armor every round.

I wouldn't worry too much about a single use breath weapon that does 1 wound. It's combined with all his other stats that make him a bit too good. He still will have thunderstomp, as that's part of Monster unit type. It's impact hits he might not should have.

The generic cost for a Dragon is 6 in all stats. 4+ armor. Flight. 4Str breath weapon. 300pts. That's "WHFB Dragon."

So you can add some and subtract some from that, but it's a good baseline to start.

   
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nowhere: north of colorado, south of motana, west of nebraska, east of utah.

hearing the Duke's counterargument i can say i'm in a good and fair position. however i have altered it so that he cannot use thunderstomp and still has impact hits (because so much supports it). with that finished i thank the community for helping me create this beast.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/26 01:01:46


blood angels: 3500+? (no codex)
necrons: 2900+
tau: 1500+  
   
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I just want to know what that model is.

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