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I was ready to buy a Aegis for my SW army but something happend my birthbay came and my friens bought me an Imperial Bastion.now i am thinging is Aergis better than the Bastion or Bastion can do the job?

Depends what you're after.The aegis is useful, putting a 4+ cover in your deployment isn't a bad deal for the cost. BUT, you mainly buy aegis for the quad cannon for anti-flyer fun, not the cover. As for bastions, meh, they're O.K. Put it in front of an objective and fill it with troops, and you can be relatively sure they'll survive a while. Again though, the upgrades are what really make it worth its points.

There are a couple things that bastions do differently than aegis:

-they cost only 25 points more
-they have 4 emplaced heavy bolters
-they grant a 3+ cover save instead of a 4+
-The cover save they give is much more selective, they don't grant cover for a wide variety of the battlefield, unlike the aegis
-They can be destroyed. The aegis can't. They do have AV14, so they are extremely hard to kill.

Overall i think the bastion is a little better. Partly because of the 3+ cover standard and the emplaced other weapons. Of you have anything in your army that has stealth or grants +1 to your cover save and has a lot of ranged firepower, it might go well with the bastion.

If you are looking for a wide cover save bonus, go with the aegis. It will confer the 4+ to a lot of models (2+ if they go to ground), unlike the bastion, which is a relatively small LOS blocker compared to the aegis.

Both have the same options for anti-air, and they both cost the same. It's your call in the end, but kinda depends on what you are looking for

I've found myself liking the bastion more and more. The AV 14 is just nice.

Bastions are better, guys inside way more survivable especially vs pie plates

Bastions are great for certain armies. Sisters of Battle love bastions since you can get 4 free rending heavy bolters (although really only 2 in any direction) for your retributors, which is awesome.

Bastion battlements give a 4+ cover save per the FAQ. They are classified as battlefield debris walls/barricades.

I like both. Bastion is great if you need a high vantage point for your heavy weapons.

Beware high S AP 1 guns though. I've had a bastion go damage result 7 on me and the explosion wiped out nearly 25 models between the two armies. It was absolutely the most epic explosion ever, caused by a fusion gun.

I'm considering the same question myself. Thinking of putting some sonic blaster noise marines on the roof of a bastion with a quad gun. Should provide a good vantage point to allow me to create a no man's land from.

 minigun762 wrote:
I'm considering the same question myself. Thinking of putting some sonic blaster noise marines on the roof of a bastion with a quad gun. Should provide a good vantage point to allow me to create a no man's land from.

Just remember that line of sight works both ways. If you can shoot anywhere on the battlefield, that means everyone can return fire. And if someone is going to shoot you with something that gives you your armor save (I.E. massed HB fire) you don't gain a lot from being up top.

 Nevelon wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:
I'm considering the same question myself. Thinking of putting some sonic blaster noise marines on the roof of a bastion with a quad gun. Should provide a good vantage point to allow me to create a no man's land from.

Just remember that line of sight works both ways. If you can shoot anywhere on the battlefield, that means everyone can return fire. And if someone is going to shoot you with something that gives you your armor save (I.E. massed HB fire) you don't gain a lot from being up top.

Fair point. FnP icon would help, as would using plague marines instead.

The Bastion is a better choice for elite armies. The ADL tends to be a better choice for horde armies.

The Bastion can protect a min sized devastator or long fang squad inside it and make the unit invulnerable to enemy return fire. The ADL can't do that for 5-man squads.

Eldar can hide their war walkers behind the Bastion and be out of LOS or at least get a cover save if the Eldar player goes second. This gives the Eldar player a chance to get a clean shot off with the war walkers.

I'm not sure about the cover save up top. Is it a 3+ or a 4+?

The problem with ADL is that in normal games you place them before terrain so your opponent can just put a hill in front of it.

The bastion offers good LOS to the whole board giving it a good vantage point. Also if you are playing in an area or a tournament with poor LOS blocking terrain it lets you take your own so you can hide things behind it that you do not want to get shot first turn, I also heard that if a vehicle is obscured by it you get a 3+ save (but I have not been able to confirm that)

Also when you have a unit inside of it they can't really be harmed unless you can blow the building up (which most armies can't do these days). This lets you put fragile units inside and you do not have to worry about then being shot to death. For example I put in 3 Trueborn Warriors with 2 Dark Lances and they can't be hurt.

You do have to worry about armies that can take down an armor 14 vehicle so if your opponent has Lance weapons or rail guns or deep strikers with melta guns and you can't keep them 6" away you are better off just putting a cheap unit on top because you might be losing your bastion and everyone in it.

 Blackmoor wrote:
The problem with ADL is that in normal games you place them before terrain so your opponent can just put a hill in front of it.

Solution: house rule it back to 5th edition where you place all terrain before you roll to pick table sides. The 6th edition method is incredibly stupid and should be ignored.


Anyway, the key difference between the two is that a unit can score from behind the ADL, but not from the bastion. The bastion protects a single unit, the ADL protects the entire static element of your army (vehicles included) and lets you sit on an objective with a 3+ cover save.

ADL gives a 4+ cover save unless you g2g.

 Peregrine wrote:

Anyway, the key difference between the two is that a unit can score from behind the ADL, but not from the bastion. The bastion protects a single unit, the ADL protects the entire static element of your army (vehicles included) and lets you sit on an objective with a 3+ cover save.

It protects one unit (up to 20 models) inside and makes them very hard to kill.

Then you can fit as many units as you can on top and that fuctions like an ADL.

So it is more than just one unit.

And as the posts said above, everything behind it is out of LOS. So it offers quite a different role.


Edit: Also be sure to place the door near the objective so you can just walk out of the bastion and claim it.


Oh, and one tactic that I like to use with my eldar is when I think that my bastion is going to be blown up I just use jetbikes to man the quad gun. I fly them up to the top in the movement phase, and then they shoot the quad gun in the shooting phase, and then I use the eldar jetbike move to jump back behind the bastion in the assault phase.

Since the potential damage to a unit in a building is much higher than that same unit on a building, would it be wise to move a single squad to the battlements and ignore the interior (assuming you only had a single squad)?

This way the heavy bolters could still be fired (albeit @ BS2) but you could still manually fire the more important weapon on the roof.

For me it's either aegis or sky shield.

A bastion can also be a death trap making a unit more vulnerable to assault by units with grenades. 10 guardsmen or guardians suddenly become able to dish out 10d6 s3 autohits. IG vets, tac marines, grey hunters, csm, and pagk can dish out 10d3 s6 ap4 autohits.

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 schadenfreude wrote:
A bastion can also be a death trap making a unit more vulnerable to assault by units with grenades. 10 guardsmen or guardians suddenly become able to dish out 10d6 s3 autohits. IG vets, tac marines, grey hunters, csm, and pagk can dish out 10d3 s6 ap4 autohits.

How do we mitigate that? Being in PA is a start, so you're always taking a save as does having FnP.

That said, up to 30 S6 hits will remove most of a full tactical squad equivalent.

I neve understand why people think Bastions are better than ADLs. The Bastion is more expensive, can be destroyed, can hurt the guys inside it when hit and/or destroyed, limits the shooting of the unit inside, and in order to fire the gun the guys have to go to the roof, where they are now getting the exact same benefits as the ADL but still paid more for a Bastion.

ADL wins every time.

Naked bastion protects troops from low-to-mid strength barrage, something that ADL does nothing against.
So I'd say bastion is situational, depending on meta.

 minigun762 wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
A bastion can also be a death trap making a unit more vulnerable to assault by units with grenades. 10 guardsmen or guardians suddenly become able to dish out 10d6 s3 autohits. IG vets, tac marines, grey hunters, csm, and pagk can dish out 10d3 s6 ap4 autohits.

How do we mitigate that? Being in PA is a start, so you're always taking a save as does having FnP.

That said, up to 30 S6 hits will remove most of a full tactical squad equivalent.

The same way troops in a real life bunker prevents an enemy soldier from killing everybody inside with a grenade, kill them before they get close enough. If that doesn't work it's pretty much game over for the guys inside.

 derpyhooves72 wrote:
Bastion battlements give a 4+ cover save per the FAQ. They are classified as battlefield debris walls/barricades.

Correct, but the Bastion itself is a fortification, so if the building itself gives cover to a model (for example a vehicle) it has a 3+.

A IG vehicle with Camo Cloaks or some of the other codex options with +1 cover saves means behind the bastion they're 2+ cover.

I would think the Bastion becomes a lot more popular if you have:

1. A unit worth protecting in it (Long Fangs/Devs, guard heavy weapon squads, etc.)
2. Other AV 14 (or AV 13 I suppose)

So I think the main contenders here are Guard, Orks, Necrons and maybe Marines. If I have 3 battlewagons on the field, the survival rate of the bastion is going to go up. Unfortunately in my case I prefer the Aegis, since protecting 60 boys on foot is more important to me than protecting 1 squad in my back field.

Guard though? I could see sticking a lascannon heavy weapons squad inside it, some cheap unit (CCS?) on top and plop down 3-ish Russ hulls anywhere else on the table and having it work. Anyone busy destroying the 75-point bastion is not killing the russes, which sounds like a bad plan.

Luide wrote:
Naked bastion protects troops from low-to-mid strength barrage, something that ADL does nothing against.
So I'd say bastion is situational, depending on meta.

Because there's so much barrage in standard lists....

Any barrage that threatens your units and that are regularly seen are likely to take out your Bastion, and thus hurt the units anyway, i.e. Manticore.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Luide wrote:
Naked bastion protects troops from low-to-mid strength barrage, something that ADL does nothing against.
So I'd say bastion is situational, depending on meta.

Because there's so much barrage in standard lists....
Any barrage that threatens your units and that are regularly seen are likely to take out your Bastion, and thus hurt the units anyway, i.e. Manticore.

Unless you're fighting against Nids or Marines. Thunderfire cannons and Biovores are both quite common. Thunderfire isn't technically barrage, but ignores cover.
Barrage is extremely good in 6e as it allows you to easily snipe special weapons and characters from units, we'll probably see more of it. Only problem is that multiple barrage really slows the game down.

But like I said, it depends on your meta. If the only barrage weapons you're seeing are Manticores, bastions are bad idea.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
I neve understand why people think Bastions are better than ADLs. The Bastion is more expensive, can be destroyed, can hurt the guys inside it when hit and/or destroyed, limits the shooting of the unit inside, and in order to fire the gun the guys have to go to the roof, where they are now getting the exact same benefits as the ADL but still paid more for a Bastion.

ADL wins every time.

The Bastion is absolutely superior in protecting a 5-man Havoc or Devastator squad than an ADL. For 115pts you have 8 autocannons shots and 3 heavy bolter shots hitting on 3's from a Chaos Havoc squad. For 150pts you can have a 5-man Blood Angel Devastator squad shooting 4 plasma cannon templates out of the bastion withi impunity. There is no amount of GK storm bolter fire that can hurt that 5-man squad in a bastion. Behind an ADL, they die quickly.

The Bastion is a better choice for an elite army. The ADL is better for a horde type army.

Its a fire point only 2 things can shoot out of it at a time.

Yeah, but the Bastion has 8 firepoints. one on each facing and then 2 on 2 of its center sections(that can be placed any which way you want.

So you can get 6 fire points facing the direction you want. thats 12 models shooting. plus 2 HBs.